<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I think I follow, and perhaps I should
also provide a bit of insight about how SimplePush was designed.<br>
<br>
For mobile devices, what really kills the battery is maintaining
lots of sockets. Honestly, maintaining even one socket prevents
the CPU from sleeping, and that's one of the big reasons that
mobile phones don't last anywhere near as long as wifi only mobile
devices. Still, if we could get a single socket, there's far less
CPU involved and that helps as well. Plus the "proprietary" stuff
allows carriers to use various back-door things to wake phones
without maintaining a network connection.<br>
<br>
In addition, SimplePush is data free. Yes, there's a "version"
associated with it, but even that was seriously considered
something we should replace with a second based timestamp. There
are a lot of reasons for this (user privacy, back end can't be
subpoenaed for useful information by governments, statelessness on
servers is a wonderful thing, etc.) <br>
<br>
Think of SimplePush as a doorbell. Apps can use it to wake up a
remote app and have it connect back. There's loss, and potentially
some lag around the doorbell, but it works fairly well (we hope).
Still imagine having a conversation where every sentence, the
person walks back to the doorbell presses the button waits for you
to acknowledge it, and then begins speaking. Not really the best
experience.<br>
<br>
What makes a better experience is for Apps to see if a given
client is connected, and if not, use the SimplePush system to
remotely wake the app and have it connect up again. At that point,
the App and Server have a far more efficient mechanism to
communicate than someone walking away to hit the doorbell again.<br>
<br>
I understand that your broadcast was for an app across devices. My
concern is that for things like chat applications, stock updates
or any other high message rate system, you may be sending a lot of
useless data and triggering a great many unneeded events in the
remote app. <br>
<br>
I hope that I'm just misunderstanding or unclear on this, and I
apologize if this is off-base. I've just learned that it's
important to try and get ahead of these sorts of things as early
as I can so that folks aren't screaming later.<br>
<br>
On 2013/9/19 8:48 AM, Kris Borchers wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:44961528-2FCE-40A8-A1D0-49FA1B5EE7C3@redhat.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
JR, I'm a little confused by your question but let me give you a
little background on this thread.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>First, we have what we call our UnifiedPush Server which to
keep the explanation short, aggregates the sending of push
messages to different networks (APNs, GCM, SimplePush) into a
single POST request with a single JSON payload. You register
applications with this server, then create variants for that
app, usually into one for each network but could also be
furthered fragmented into paid and free apps, etc, and then
devices register with a variant and in the case of SimplePush,
each endpoint is treated as a different device for simplicity.
Early in development, we implemented a special send type called
'broadcast' which would allow for sending to an entire
application (all devices for all variants). This
issue/discussion is about removing that broadcast type because
we can do the same thing with our regular send functionality by
not specifying certain criteria like device id's etc.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Does that make sense? If so and your question still stands,
could you elaborate?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>On Sep 19, 2013, at 10:39 AM, JR Conlin <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jrconlin@gmail.com">jrconlin@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I'm a bit late to this, but
I'm also a little curious.<br>
<br>
Are you planning on using SimplePush the way you'd use
any data delivery channel? (e.g. for a given message
event, you'd include a SimplePush remote app wake
event?)<br>
<br>
If so, that might not be the more efficient means. <br>
<br>
On 2013/9/19 4:39 AM, Matthias Wessendorf wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAAg5f2TGGNg-KQv9J2CLXOYLN+RdknaggtnJCapqNw_7apw1Mw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at
2:43 PM, Kris Borchers <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kborcher@redhat.com"
target="_blank">kborcher@redhat.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>You can do the same thing with the other
platforms as with SimplePush, no? Won't it
work the same way by sending a selective
send that includes all necessary info for
android, iOS and SimplePush but don't
specify any particular devices and just a
category, you then get a broadcast to all
devices of all types for that category,
correct? That is why I think the broadcast
is pointless.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Your point is to remove for all platforms, or
just for SimplePush ? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div><br>
On Sep 14, 2013, at 4:19, Matthias
Wessendorf <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:matzew@apache.org"
target="_blank">matzew@apache.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat,
Sep 14, 2013 at 9:32 AM,
Sebastien Blanc <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:scm.blanc@gmail.com"
target="_blank">scm.blanc@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Yes but again
when you want to do a
broadcast to all the devices
types and broadcast is not
anymore available for SPS,
does that mean that we must
send 2 messages : one
broadcast for "native"
clients and a "empty"
selective send for SPS , not
sure this is effective ? I
must be missing something.</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>that's a good point</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It would be two request to
the UnifiedPush Server:</div>
<div>* broadcast for Android/iOS</div>
<div>* 'selective' send for the
SimplePush client</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I guess having the implicit
'broadcast' category does not
hurt, since this (as it is
today) allows sending the
broadcast to _all_ platforms
via one request</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think this does make
sense.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think (and I had similar
thoughts) that Kris thinks the
'explicit' (JS client side)
registration for the broadcast
category seems odd;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But now, after some more
thoughts, I think it's a
feature and we should keep it</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div> <br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at
9:59 PM, Kris Borchers
<span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:kborcher@redhat.com" target="_blank">kborcher@redhat.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>The reasoning
was that a
broadcast can be
done via
selective if you
just send to a
category and
don't list any
specific
endpoints. To do
a broadcast, you
specifically
have to register
a broadcast
endpoint but
then your
category doesn't
have any meaning
so it seems like
more loss than
gain IMO.</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
On Sep 13,
2013, at 7:11,
Lucas
Holmquist <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:lholmqui@redhat.com" target="_blank">lholmqui@redhat.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote
type="cite">
<div>What is
the reasoning
behind this,
i think i
missed
something<br>
<div>
<div>On Sep
13, 2013, at
3:57 AM,
Sebastien
Blanc <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:scm.blanc@gmail.com" target="_blank">scm.blanc@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Concretely what
does that
means ?
removing
"simple-push"
field from the
broadcast
message ?
<div> The jira
mention that
we can achieve
the same with
a selective
send but on
the client
side when I
want to send a
broadcast and
being agnostic
from the
receiving
clients I
still want to
use the
(Unified)
broadcast
format. </div>
<div>So my
question is
will
SimplePush
Clients still
receive my
message if I
broadcast it
(and not using
the selective
send) ?</div>
<div><br>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div
class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">
On Fri, Sep
13, 2013 at
9:37 AM,
Daniel
Bevenius <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:daniel.bevenius@gmail.com"
target="_blank">daniel.bevenius@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0
0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">+1
I agree that
it makes sense
to remove
broadcast now.</div>
<div
class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>On 13
September 2013
09:35,
Matthias
Wessendorf <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:matzew@apache.org" target="_blank">matzew@apache.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0
0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Following
up on [1], to
catch a wider
audience, than
JIRA.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I do
agree that it
feels odd, for
SimplePush.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-M<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>[1] <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://issues.jboss.org/browse/AGPUSH-323" target="_blank">https://issues.jboss.org/browse/AGPUSH-323</a><span><font
color="#888888"><br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
Matthias
Wessendorf <br>
<br>
blog: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/" target="_blank">http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/</a><br>
sessions: <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.slideshare.net/mwessendorf"
target="_blank">http://www.slideshare.net/mwessendorf</a><br>
twitter: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://twitter.com/mwessendorf" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mwessendorf</a>
</font></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
aerogear-dev
mailing list<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:aerogear-dev@lists.jboss.org" target="_blank">aerogear-dev@lists.jboss.org</a><br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev"
target="_blank">https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
aerogear-dev
mailing list<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:aerogear-dev@lists.jboss.org" target="_blank">aerogear-dev@lists.jboss.org</a><br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev"
target="_blank">https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
aerogear-dev
mailing list<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:aerogear-dev@lists.jboss.org" target="_blank">aerogear-dev@lists.jboss.org</a><br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev"
target="_blank">https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev</a></blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
type="cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>aerogear-dev
mailing list</span><br>
<span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:aerogear-dev@lists.jboss.org" target="_blank">aerogear-dev@lists.jboss.org</a></span><br>
<span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev"
target="_blank">https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev</a></span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
aerogear-dev mailing
list<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:aerogear-dev@lists.jboss.org" target="_blank">aerogear-dev@lists.jboss.org</a><br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev"
target="_blank">https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
aerogear-dev mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:aerogear-dev@lists.jboss.org"
target="_blank">aerogear-dev@lists.jboss.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev"
target="_blank">https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
Matthias Wessendorf <br>
<br>
blog: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/"
target="_blank">http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/</a><br>
sessions: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.slideshare.net/mwessendorf"
target="_blank">http://www.slideshare.net/mwessendorf</a><br>
twitter: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://twitter.com/mwessendorf"
target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mwessendorf</a>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>aerogear-dev mailing list</span><br>
<span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:aerogear-dev@lists.jboss.org"
target="_blank">aerogear-dev@lists.jboss.org</a></span><br>
<span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev"
target="_blank">https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev</a></span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
aerogear-dev mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:aerogear-dev@lists.jboss.org">aerogear-dev@lists.jboss.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev"
target="_blank">https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
Matthias Wessendorf <br>
<br>
blog: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/"
target="_blank">http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/</a><br>
sessions: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.slideshare.net/mwessendorf"
target="_blank">http://www.slideshare.net/mwessendorf</a><br>
twitter: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://twitter.com/mwessendorf"
target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mwessendorf</a>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
aerogear-dev mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:aerogear-dev@lists.jboss.org">aerogear-dev@lists.jboss.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev">https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
aerogear-dev mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:aerogear-dev@lists.jboss.org">aerogear-dev@lists.jboss.org</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev">https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev</a></blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
aerogear-dev mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:aerogear-dev@lists.jboss.org">aerogear-dev@lists.jboss.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev">https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>