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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Awesome!<br>
<br>
I'll switch to decaf for a bit.<br>
<br>
On 2013/9/19 10:15 AM, Kris Borchers wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:79A76D1C-BDFB-4B75-A562-52BB43780A29@redhat.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
Yeah, I think this was just a misunderstanding. See comments
inline.
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Sep 19, 2013, at 12:04 PM, JR Conlin <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jrconlin@gmail.com">jrconlin@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I think I follow, and perhaps
I should also provide a bit of insight about how
SimplePush was designed.<br>
<br>
For mobile devices, what really kills the battery is
maintaining lots of sockets. Honestly, maintaining even
one socket prevents the CPU from sleeping, and that's
one of the big reasons that mobile phones don't last
anywhere near as long as wifi only mobile devices.
Still, if we could get a single socket, there's far less
CPU involved and that helps as well. Plus the
"proprietary" stuff allows carriers to use various
back-door things to wake phones without maintaining a
network connection.<br>
<br>
In addition, SimplePush is data free. Yes, there's a
"version" associated with it, but even that was
seriously considered something we should replace with a
second based timestamp. There are a lot of reasons for
this (user privacy, back end can't be subpoenaed for
useful information by governments, statelessness on
servers is a wonderful thing, etc.) <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
Yep, we totally get this. In fact, in any examples I have
thrown together, I usually just use a timestamp for the
version and don't even check it client side. :)<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"> <br>
Think of SimplePush as a doorbell. Apps can use it to
wake up a remote app and have it connect back. There's
loss, and potentially some lag around the doorbell, but
it works fairly well (we hope). Still imagine having a
conversation where every sentence, the person walks back
to the doorbell presses the button waits for you to
acknowledge it, and then begins speaking. Not really the
best experience.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
Again, we get this.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"> <br>
What makes a better experience is for Apps to see if a
given client is connected, and if not, use the
SimplePush system to remotely wake the app and have it
connect up again. At that point, the App and Server have
a far more efficient mechanism to communicate than
someone walking away to hit the doorbell again.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
Again ...<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"> <br>
I understand that your broadcast was for an app across
devices. My concern is that for things like chat
applications, stock updates or any other high message
rate system, you may be sending a lot of useless data
and triggering a great many unneeded events in the
remote app. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
We are not sending the extra data along to SimplePush clients.
That is part of what our UnifiedPush server does. It takes
that payload, determines if there is SimplePush data, if so,
it takes that SimplePush part of the payload (version=12345)
and sends that off to the SimplePush server via the registered
endpoints for each device. To be clear, UnifiedPush and
SimplePush are separate servers in this model. Obviously, we
can't stop an app developer if they want to send notifications
to the devices all the time but we are set up in the way you
describe, the app should only ping clients via SimplePush when
necessary but otherwise use other means of data transfer.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"> <br>
I hope that I'm just misunderstanding or unclear on
this, and I apologize if this is off-base. I've just
learned that it's important to try and get ahead of
these sorts of things as early as I can so that folks
aren't screaming later.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
No need to apologize! We really appreciate any and all input
you have!!<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"> <br>
On 2013/9/19 8:48 AM, Kris Borchers wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:44961528-2FCE-40A8-A1D0-49FA1B5EE7C3@redhat.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
JR, I'm a little confused by your question but let me
give you a little background on this thread.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>First, we have what we call our UnifiedPush Server
which to keep the explanation short, aggregates the
sending of push messages to different networks (APNs,
GCM, SimplePush) into a single POST request with a
single JSON payload. You register applications with
this server, then create variants for that app,
usually into one for each network but could also be
furthered fragmented into paid and free apps, etc, and
then devices register with a variant and in the case
of SimplePush, each endpoint is treated as a different
device for simplicity. Early in development, we
implemented a special send type called 'broadcast'
which would allow for sending to an entire application
(all devices for all variants). This issue/discussion
is about removing that broadcast type because we can
do the same thing with our regular send functionality
by not specifying certain criteria like device id's
etc.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Does that make sense? If so and your question still
stands, could you elaborate?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>On Sep 19, 2013, at 10:39 AM, JR Conlin <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jrconlin@gmail.com">jrconlin@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I'm a bit late to
this, but I'm also a little curious.<br>
<br>
Are you planning on using SimplePush the way
you'd use any data delivery channel? (e.g. for
a given message event, you'd include a
SimplePush remote app wake event?)<br>
<br>
If so, that might not be the more efficient
means. <br>
<br>
On 2013/9/19 4:39 AM, Matthias Wessendorf
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAAg5f2TGGNg-KQv9J2CLXOYLN+RdknaggtnJCapqNw_7apw1Mw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Sep 14,
2013 at 2:43 PM, Kris Borchers <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kborcher@redhat.com"
target="_blank">kborcher@redhat.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>You can do the same thing with
the other platforms as with
SimplePush, no? Won't it work the
same way by sending a selective
send that includes all necessary
info for android, iOS and
SimplePush but don't specify any
particular devices and just a
category, you then get a broadcast
to all devices of all types for
that category, correct? That is
why I think the broadcast is
pointless.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Your point is to remove for all
platforms, or just for SimplePush ? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div><br>
On Sep 14, 2013, at 4:19,
Matthias Wessendorf <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:matzew@apache.org"
target="_blank">matzew@apache.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at
9:32 AM, Sebastien
Blanc <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:scm.blanc@gmail.com" target="_blank">scm.blanc@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Yes
but again when you
want to do a
broadcast to all
the devices types
and broadcast is
not anymore
available for SPS,
does that mean
that we must send
2 messages : one
broadcast for
"native" clients
and a "empty"
selective send for
SPS , not sure
this is effective
? I must be
missing something.</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>that's a good
point</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It would be two
request to the
UnifiedPush Server:</div>
<div>* broadcast for
Android/iOS</div>
<div>* 'selective'
send for the
SimplePush client</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I guess having
the implicit
'broadcast' category
does not hurt, since
this (as it is
today) allows
sending the
broadcast to _all_
platforms via one
request</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think this does
make sense.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think (and I
had similar
thoughts) that Kris
thinks the
'explicit' (JS
client side)
registration for the
broadcast category
seems odd;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But now, after
some more thoughts,
I think it's a
feature and we
should keep it</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div> <br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div
class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">On
Fri, Sep 13,
2013 at 9:59
PM, Kris
Borchers <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:kborcher@redhat.com" target="_blank">kborcher@redhat.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0
0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div
dir="auto">
<div>The
reasoning was
that a
broadcast can
be done via
selective if
you just send
to a category
and don't list
any specific
endpoints. To
do a
broadcast, you
specifically
have to
register a
broadcast
endpoint but
then your
category
doesn't have
any meaning so
it seems like
more loss than
gain IMO.</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
On Sep 13,
2013, at 7:11,
Lucas
Holmquist <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:lholmqui@redhat.com" target="_blank">lholmqui@redhat.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote
type="cite">
<div>What is
the reasoning
behind this,
i think i
missed
something<br>
<div>
<div>On Sep
13, 2013, at
3:57 AM,
Sebastien
Blanc <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:scm.blanc@gmail.com" target="_blank">scm.blanc@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Concretely what
does that
means ?
removing
"simple-push"
field from the
broadcast
message ?
<div> The jira
mention that
we can achieve
the same with
a selective
send but on
the client
side when I
want to send a
broadcast and
being agnostic
from the
receiving
clients I
still want to
use the
(Unified)
broadcast
format. </div>
<div>So my
question is
will
SimplePush
Clients still
receive my
message if I
broadcast it
(and not using
the selective
send) ?</div>
<div><br>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div
class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">
On Fri, Sep
13, 2013 at
9:37 AM,
Daniel
Bevenius <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:daniel.bevenius@gmail.com"
target="_blank">daniel.bevenius@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0
0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">+1
I agree that
it makes sense
to remove
broadcast now.</div>
<div
class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>On 13
September 2013
09:35,
Matthias
Wessendorf <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:matzew@apache.org" target="_blank">matzew@apache.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0
0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Following
up on [1], to
catch a wider
audience, than
JIRA.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I do
agree that it
feels odd, for
SimplePush.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-M<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>[1] <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://issues.jboss.org/browse/AGPUSH-323" target="_blank">https://issues.jboss.org/browse/AGPUSH-323</a><span><font
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