<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Summers Pittman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:supittma@redhat.com" target="_blank">supittma@redhat.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><div><div class="h5">
<div>On 01/28/2014 12:45 PM, Matthias
Wessendorf wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 6:43 PM,
Summers Pittman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:supittma@redhat.com" target="_blank">supittma@redhat.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>
<div>
<div>On 01/28/2014 12:37 PM, Matthias Wessendorf
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 28, 2014
at 6:36 PM, Summers Pittman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:supittma@redhat.com" target="_blank">supittma@redhat.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>
<div>
<div>On 01/28/2014 12:32 PM,
Matthias Wessendorf wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 6:32
PM, Matthias Wessendorf <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:matzew@apache.org" target="_blank">matzew@apache.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>On Tue, Jan
28, 2014 at 6:26
PM, Summers
Pittman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:supittma@redhat.com" target="_blank">supittma@redhat.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>
<div>
<div>On
01/28/2014
12:13 PM,
Matthias
Wessendorf
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Tue, Jan 28,
2014 at 6:08
PM, Summers
Pittman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:supittma@redhat.com" target="_blank">supittma@redhat.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>
<div>On
01/28/2014
11:46 AM,
Matthias
Wessendorf
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Tue, Jan 28,
2014 at 4:48
PM, Lucas
Holmquist <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lholmqui@redhat.com" target="_blank">lholmqui@redhat.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><br>
On Jan 28,
2014, at 10:30
AM, Summers
Pittman <<a href="mailto:supittma@redhat.com" target="_blank">supittma@redhat.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> On
01/28/2014
09:36 AM,
Lucas
Holmquist
wrote:<br>
>> yup,
this is
another Data
Sync thread,<br>
>><br>
>>>
From a client
side
perspective, i
have concerns
that there is
still not a
clear
direction yet.<br>
>><br>
>> I
know there are
multiple ideas
floating
around on what
our model
should be,
i'm all for
choice, but
what about
deciding on 1
model to get
started with.
Then later
once we have
this nailed
down, we can
have other
"adapters"
with different
models perhaps<br>
> All the
data model is
is an envelope
of sync
metadata
around an
object<br>
> right?<br>
<br>
</div>
right<br>
<div><br>
><br>
> We also
need to think
about the API
and
server/client
protocol as
well.<br>
><br>
> I think
that for sync
1.0 we could
focus on the
following
behavior (it<br>
> worked
for my demos
at least)<br>
><br>
> 1. We
have a Sync
factory
similar to
Pipeline,
Authenticator,<br>
>
Registrar, and
KeyService.<br>
> 2. The
Sync factory
consumes/manages
Synchronizer
instances.<br>
> 3. AG
Synchronizer
listens for
sync messages
using
UnifiedPush
endpoints.<br>
</div>
i thought for
a 1.0 we
weren't
thinking about
"realtime"<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>that is
my impression
as well,
talking to Dan
on IRC;</div>
<div>ATM all
is polling,
but the
sync-server
will be cable
of doing
WebSocket/SockJS,
so "connected"
clients, can
sync.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
Polling is
MURDER on
battery,
performance,
and "feel".
WebSockets and
SockJS are
awesome ideas
for a future
implementation
for "real
time".</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As far as
I understood
it, the
sync-server
just started
w/ polling
(pure HTTP). I
think that
WebSocket/SockJS
is not really
that far away,
in terms of
'future'</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Push
should be
really used
for 'wake-up',
instead of
changing real
information;
Also
SimplePush
clients could
not even
integrate here
(the protocol
just uses
version (or
timestamps)</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
Yes.<br>
<br>
On the topic
of Simple
Push, you push
a URL so in
theory you
could push
/Documents/${collecitonName}/${id}/${rev_id}
and have
simple push
setup to
accept URLS
formatted that
way right? Or
is it more
limited than
that?</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>you can
simply ONLY
push a version
number, that's
it</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
I just reread
things. It is
worse than
that. You can
(should) only
push an
increasing
version
number. So
anything
checksum based
will fail.</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>best practice
is 'timestamp' -
that's all you can
push over to those
devices</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> for a good reason <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
Yeah. I keep forgetting how simple
simplepush is.<br>
<br>
My original though on simple push was
that a client to register as a listener
for /Documents/Collections and it would
receive pushes to
/Documents/Collections/foo/bar. I was
totally wrong :)<br>
<br>
This gives a much better context to
everything that is also going on.</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>you are now buying the real-time ? <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
I still say skipping push initiated sync and going
straight to real time isn't a great first release idea.<br>
<br>
What I am buying now is [polling]->[push
initialed]->[beefing up push adapters to include good
mqtt and websocket]->[real time]<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I doubt that push is (always) needed - not sure every
mobile _really_ wants to receive a notification "something
is new".</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If an application relies on push in order to function
it is fundamentally broken <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br></div></div>
Well that depends. </div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>well, on iOS a user of an app can say "No" to the feature of receiving push notifications.</div><div>If the app, using our sync bits, does NOT work when no push is available, the api is broken.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Push, as part of the sync, should be optional, not required.</div><div><br></div><div>for the apple app-store guidelines it's similar: if an app only works when it is allowed to receive push-notifications: You dont get an approval.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Push optional to wake-up: yes - but that's not really sync :) that's more a trigger, which may cause the app connecting to our real-time service on the sync server</div><div><br></div><div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">If the purpose of the application is to get
updates on non critical data then push is a fundamental part of the
apps identity. Polling is too low and frequent polling is too
wasteful.<br>
<br>
If the application just has to update once every few hours then
polling is just peachy.<br>
<br>
There is no reason we can't have multiple adapters, some which need
push, some which need real time bidirecitonal channels, and some
which just need to get data a few times a day. A good API can hide
all of these details and let a dev pick/choose/implement what she
needs at design time.<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
In my earlier real time text demo I wrote a websocket
push adapter so there exists code to help with that
hump.
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div><br>
> 4. AG
Synchronizer
sends sync
messages using
Pipes<br>
> 5. AG
Synchronizer
holds local
data in a
store<br>
><br>
> 6. When
AGSynchronizer
gets a message
it is
responsible
for updating<br>
> the Store
and then
notifying code
listing for
updates OR for
notifying<br>
> the code
that an error
has occurred
and needs to
be addressed.<br>
><br>
> 7. When
the developer
updates data
in the store,
the
synchronizer<br>
> should
package that
data and send
it to the
server. The
synchronizer
is<br>
>
responsible
for error
handling,
retrying,
back-off, etc.<br>
><br>
> 8. We
should include
multiple
synchronizer
implementations
to deal with<br>
> multiple
very simple
use cases
which involve
legacy
systems. (For<br>
> instance
polling to
load static
data on a
schedule.)<br>
><br>
> Thoughts?
Tomatoes?<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>
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<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
Matthias
Wessendorf <br>
<br>
blog: <a href="http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/" target="_blank">http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/</a><br>
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Wessendorf <br>
<br>
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-- <br>
Matthias Wessendorf <br>
<br>
blog: <a href="http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/" target="_blank">http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/</a><br>
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<br>
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<br>
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