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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 01/28/2014 12:19 PM, Matthias
      Wessendorf wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAAg5f2QtH3eRv9uUXAc0uaY1iMoqKVn02JKhqHN1H9AjBhA3ww@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
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        <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 6:14 PM,
            Summers Pittman <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
                moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:supittma@redhat.com"
                target="_blank">supittma@redhat.com</a>&gt;</span>
            wrote:<br>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div class="HOEnZb">
                <div class="h5">On 01/28/2014 11:41 AM, Lucas Holmquist
                  wrote:<br>
                  &gt; On Jan 28, 2014, at 11:01 AM, Summers Pittman
                  &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:supittma@redhat.com">supittma@redhat.com</a>&gt;
                  wrote:<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt; On 01/28/2014 10:58 AM, Lucas Holmquist
                  wrote:<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; On Jan 28, 2014, at 10:54 AM, Summers
                  Pittman &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:supittma@redhat.com">supittma@redhat.com</a>&gt;
                  wrote:<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 01/28/2014 10:48 AM, Lucas
                  Holmquist wrote:<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Jan 28, 2014, at 10:30 AM,
                  Summers Pittman &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:supittma@redhat.com">supittma@redhat.com</a>&gt;
                  wrote:<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 01/28/2014 09:36 AM, Lucas
                  Holmquist wrote:<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; yup, this is another Data
                  Sync thread,<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;From a client side
                  perspective, i have concerns that there is still not a
                  clear direction yet.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I know there are multiple
                  ideas floating around on what our model should be,
                  &nbsp;i'm all for choice, but what about deciding on 1
                  model to get started with. &nbsp;Then later once we have
                  this nailed down, &nbsp;we can have other "adapters" with
                  different models perhaps<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; All the data model is is an
                  envelope of sync metadata around an object<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; right?<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; right<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We also need to think about
                  the API and server/client protocol as well.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I think that for sync 1.0 we
                  could focus on the following behavior (it<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; worked for my demos at least)<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1. &nbsp;We have a Sync factory
                  similar to Pipeline, Authenticator,<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Registrar, and KeyService.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2. &nbsp;The Sync factory
                  consumes/manages Synchronizer instances.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3. &nbsp;AG Synchronizer listens
                  for sync messages using UnifiedPush endpoints.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; i thought for a 1.0 we weren't
                  thinking about "realtime"<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; When I hear realtime I think sub 100
                  ms updates to all clients. (think<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; gaming)<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; What I thought we were going for was
                  something closer to email. &nbsp;The<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; data gets changed and at some point
                  in the future the client knows. More<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; specifically, the thing the ONE thing
                  that makes sync special is it is a<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; push instead of poll implementation.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; this makes sense, &nbsp;but i guess it would
                  be push when available. thinking web and crappy web
                  socket support( dang you carriers )<br>
                  &gt;&gt; Right. &nbsp;I'm not saying lets do something
                  complicated. &nbsp;I'm saying lets<br>
                  &gt;&gt; use GCM, iOS CM, and simple push to send
                  notifications to tell the<br>
                  &gt;&gt; client something. &nbsp;In simplePush case it is
                  "this data changed, get the<br>
                  &gt;&gt; new stuff and update yourself". &nbsp;In Android
                  and iOS case it may be that<br>
                  &gt;&gt; or it may be "here is new data".<br>
                  &gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt; In general, I am fine for getting a message
                  saying something like<br>
                  &gt;&gt; Documents/Schedules/1/${revision}. &nbsp;Then I
                  can check my revisions, fetch<br>
                  &gt;&gt; data if necessary, update my local data, and
                  send any updates. &nbsp;That<br>
                  &gt;&gt; SHOULD (I think) be doable with simplepush as
                  well right?<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt; not sure how i feel about using "push"( APNS,
                  GCM, SimplePush ) stuff for sync.<br>
                  &gt; then we are relying on these 3rd party services,<br>
                </div>
              </div>
              That is a valid concern.<br>
              <br>
              I think making our entire sync product based on polling is
              a bad thing.<br>
              (Battery, performance, etc etc etc).<br>
              I think making sync based on TCP sockets/WebSockets/SockJS
              is a good<br>
              thing, but it is past 1.0<br>
            </blockquote>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>regarding 1.0 - I am not even sure what that version
              should be done; but for me (personal thought),</div>
            <div>I (again, personally) have serious doubts that the
              first sync offerings (March/April?) will be the ones
              labeled as '1.0.0';</div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    I think one of the minimum features for our first client release
    should have is push initiated synchronization.<br>
    <br>
    This doesn't mean push based or real time, just a push message
    causes an update.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAAg5f2QtH3eRv9uUXAc0uaY1iMoqKVn02JKhqHN1H9AjBhA3ww@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
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        <div class="gmail_extra">
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>&nbsp;</div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              I think making our sync product demand proprietary
              technology is a bad<br>
              thing, but I don't know of a service which is as easy as
              APNS or GCM for<br>
              iOS and Android devs.<br>
              <div class="HOEnZb">
                <div class="h5"><br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 4. &nbsp;AG Synchronizer sends
                  sync messages using Pipes<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 5. &nbsp;AG Synchronizer holds
                  local data in a store<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 6. &nbsp;When AGSynchronizer gets
                  a message it is responsible for updating<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the Store and then notifying
                  code listing for updates OR for notifying<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the code that an error has
                  occurred and needs to be addressed.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 7. &nbsp;When the developer
                  updates data in the store, the synchronizer<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; should package that data and
                  send it to the server. &nbsp;The synchronizer is<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; responsible for error
                  handling, retrying, back-off, etc.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 8. &nbsp;We should include
                  multiple synchronizer implementations to deal with<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multiple very simple use
                  cases which involve legacy systems. (For<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; instance polling to load
                  static data on a schedule.)<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thoughts? Tomatoes?<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
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              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          <br>
          <br clear="all">
          <div><br>
          </div>
          -- <br>
          Matthias Wessendorf <br>
          <br>
          blog: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/"
            target="_blank">http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/</a><br>
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            href="http://www.slideshare.net/mwessendorf" target="_blank">http://www.slideshare.net/mwessendorf</a><br>
          twitter: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="http://twitter.com/mwessendorf" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mwessendorf</a>
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