<div dir="ltr">Mark did, I'm sure he'll be able to help clarify that if you need his input;-)<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse"><br></p><span lang="EN-GB"><p style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse"><br></p><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium;border-collapse:separate"><span style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:12px"><span style="font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse"><br></span></span></span></span></font></span></div></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 11:30 AM, Romain Manni-Bucau <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rmannibucau@gmail.com" target="_blank">rmannibucau@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">still dont get why you keep saying servlet spec assume serialization...<br>
<span class="im HOEnZb"><br>
<br>
Romain Manni-Bucau<br>
@rmannibucau<br>
<a href="http://www.tomitribe.com" target="_blank">http://www.tomitribe.com</a><br>
<a href="http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com" target="_blank">http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com</a><br>
<a href="https://github.com/rmannibucau" target="_blank">https://github.com/rmannibucau</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">2015-02-03 11:30 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <<a href="mailto:werner.keil@gmail.com">werner.keil@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
> That you'd have to ask the Servlet Spec Leads:<br>
> <a href="https://jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=369" target="_blank">https://jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=369</a><br>
> As of now, it seems Tomitribe has no EG Member there, but I'm sure you could<br>
> discuss anything with them if you feel it is a burden or makes no sense;-)<br>
><br>
> Werner<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 11:24 AM, Romain Manni-Bucau <<a href="mailto:rmannibucau@gmail.com">rmannibucau@gmail.com</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> point is while serialization itself is not specified you have no more<br>
>> guarantee with Serializable. ATM you can serialize your bean<br>
>> passivationId and keep your bean instance in memory (in a map). You<br>
>> didnt serialize anything excepted a string!<br>
>><br>
>> So why forcing such a constraint if it is an implementation detail?<br>
>> Serialization process is not explicit so then constraint doesnt<br>
>> guarantee any portability<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Romain Manni-Bucau<br>
>> @rmannibucau<br>
>> <a href="http://www.tomitribe.com" target="_blank">http://www.tomitribe.com</a><br>
>> <a href="http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com" target="_blank">http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com</a><br>
>> <a href="https://github.com/rmannibucau" target="_blank">https://github.com/rmannibucau</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> 2015-02-03 11:22 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <<a href="mailto:werner.keil@gmail.com">werner.keil@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
>> > Guess Jozef pretty much hit the point, I don't care about the sticker or<br>
>> > label you may put on your laptop or product, but a compatible behavior<br>
>> > allowing users to deploy against as many available containers as<br>
>> > possible<br>
>> > with minimal or no changes at all;-)<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 11:17 AM, Jozef Hartinger <<a href="mailto:jharting@redhat.com">jharting@redhat.com</a>><br>
>> > wrote:<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> If we want applications to be portable across different implementations<br>
>> >> then the spec should require the least common multiple - that is beans<br>
>> >> that<br>
>> >> belong to passivating scopes being serializable. TomEE/OWB is free to<br>
>> >> have a<br>
>> >> mode in which passivation requirements are not checked if the server<br>
>> >> runs in<br>
>> >> non-passivating mode.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> On 02/03/2015 11:03 AM, Romain Manni-Bucau wrote:<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> servlet spec requirement is only for distributed systems AFAIK == not<br>
>> >>> required in most of instances.<br>
>> >>> tomee supports both and is aligned on tomcat for all tomee flavors and<br>
>> >>> is serialization-less in openejb flavors<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> That said this is not a certification question but a usage question<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Romain Manni-Bucau<br>
>> >>> @rmannibucau<br>
>> >>> <a href="http://www.tomitribe.com" target="_blank">http://www.tomitribe.com</a><br>
>> >>> <a href="http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com" target="_blank">http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com</a><br>
>> >>> <a href="https://github.com/rmannibucau" target="_blank">https://github.com/rmannibucau</a><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> 2015-02-03 10:59 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <<a href="mailto:werner.keil@gmail.com">werner.keil@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> What about TomEE?<br>
>> >>>> After all it's Java EE 6 certified:<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> <a href="http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javaee/overview/compatibility-jsp-136984.html" target="_blank">http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javaee/overview/compatibility-jsp-136984.html</a><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> So as Mark mentioned briefly, there is a requirement by the Servlet<br>
>> >>>> spec, so<br>
>> >>>> I assume it is either always on or at least on by default (otherwise<br>
>> >>>> a<br>
>> >>>> TomEE<br>
>> >>>> "tweaked" like that would no longer be Java EE compliant;-)<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> Tomcat itself was never certified.<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> Werner<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 9:39 AM, <<a href="mailto:cdi-dev-request@lists.jboss.org">cdi-dev-request@lists.jboss.org</a>><br>
>> >>>> wrote:<br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>> Send cdi-dev mailing list submissions to<br>
>> >>>>> <a href="mailto:cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org">cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org</a><br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
>> >>>>> <a href="https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/cdi-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/cdi-dev</a><br>
>> >>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
>> >>>>> <a href="mailto:cdi-dev-request@lists.jboss.org">cdi-dev-request@lists.jboss.org</a><br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
>> >>>>> <a href="mailto:cdi-dev-owner@lists.jboss.org">cdi-dev-owner@lists.jboss.org</a><br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
>> >>>>> than "Re: Contents of cdi-dev digest..."<br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>> Today's Topics:<br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>> 1. Re: Clarify scopes and serialization (Mark Struberg)<br>
>> >>>>> 2. Re: Clarify scopes and serialization (Romain Manni-Bucau)<br>
>> >>>>> 3. Re: Clarify scopes and serialization (Mark Struberg)<br>
>> >>>>> 4. Re: Clarify scopes and serialization (Romain Manni-Bucau)<br>
>> >>>>> 5. Re: Async events. We need ideas to improve CDI-499<br>
>> >>>>> (Jozef Hartinger)<br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>> Message: 4<br>
>> >>>>> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2015 16:50:44 +0100<br>
>> >>>>> From: Romain Manni-Bucau <<a href="mailto:rmannibucau@gmail.com">rmannibucau@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [cdi-dev] Clarify scopes and serialization<br>
>> >>>>> To: Mark Struberg <<a href="mailto:struberg@yahoo.de">struberg@yahoo.de</a>><br>
>> >>>>> Cc: cdi-dev <<a href="mailto:cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org">cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org</a>><br>
>> >>>>> Message-ID:<br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>> <CACLE=<a href="mailto:7MUGeq_bgdx0W_hPT-15-9ae_XdD3kab0P3vE4YHftKRg@mail.gmail.com">7MUGeq_bgdx0W_hPT-15-9ae_XdD3kab0P3vE4YHftKRg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
>> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8<br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>> in a standard tomcat yes but not in most of embedded ones...and<br>
>> >>>>> that's<br>
>> >>>>> not the point anyway<br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>> Romain Manni-Bucau<br>
>> >>>>> @rmannibucau<br>
>> >>>>> <a href="http://www.tomitribe.com" target="_blank">http://www.tomitribe.com</a><br>
>> >>>>> <a href="http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com" target="_blank">http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com</a><br>
>> >>>>> <a href="https://github.com/rmannibucau" target="_blank">https://github.com/rmannibucau</a><br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>> 2015-02-02 16:50 GMT+01:00 Mark Struberg <<a href="mailto:struberg@yahoo.de">struberg@yahoo.de</a>>:<br>
>> >>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>> but you HAVE to manually switch it off. By _default_ the<br>
>> >>>>>> serialization<br>
>> >>>>>> is on...<br>
>> >>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>> LieGrue,<br>
>> >>>>>> strub<br>
>> >>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>>> On Monday, 2 February 2015, 16:42, Romain Manni-Bucau<br>
>> >>>>>>> <<a href="mailto:rmannibucau@gmail.com">rmannibucau@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> >>>>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>>>> @Mark: that's not true. 1) you can switch it off + I mainly spoke<br>
>> >>>>>>>> of<br>
>> >>>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>>> embedded case where it is true in 80% of cases<br>
>> >>>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>>> Romain Manni-Bucau<br>
>> >>>>>>> @rmannibucau<br>
>> >>>>>>> <a href="http://www.tomitribe.com" target="_blank">http://www.tomitribe.com</a><br>
>> >>>>>>> <a href="http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com" target="_blank">http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com</a><br>
>> >>>>>>> <a href="https://github.com/rmannibucau" target="_blank">https://github.com/rmannibucau</a><br>
>> >>>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>>> 2015-02-02 16:38 GMT+01:00 Mark Struberg <<a href="mailto:struberg@yahoo.de">struberg@yahoo.de</a>>:<br>
>> >>>>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>>>> Romain, that's not true. Tomcat by default ALWAYS serializes<br>
>> >>>>>>>> the<br>
>> >>>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>>> session at shutdown! Even if you don't have a cluster set up. This<br>
>> >>>>>>> is<br>
>> >>>>>>> also<br>
>> >>>>>>> required by the Servlets spec...<br>
>> >>>>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>>>> LieGrue,<br>
>> >>>>>>>> strub<br>
>> >>>>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>>>><br>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
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>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>> Note that for all code provided on this list, the provider licenses<br>
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>> >>>>> End of cdi-dev Digest, Vol 51, Issue 4<br>
>> >>>>> **************************************<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>
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><br>
><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>