<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_quote">2015-08-30 16:29 GMT+02:00 Werner Keil <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:werner.keil@gmail.com" target="_blank">werner.keil@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Looking at the requirements for SE Embedded (on the lower side of SE) probably helps:</div><a href="http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/embedded/embedded-se/documentation/javase-embedded-sysreq-2043454.html" target="_blank">http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/embedded/embedded-se/documentation/javase-embedded-sysreq-2043454.html</a><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">The 3 MB binary app size Romain mentioned is a good example. Could be a bit steep for Embedded, but as an upper end it sounds reasonable.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Just to explain this 3M:</div><div>- CDI / IoC ~ 1M</div><div>- You always need at least another framework, considered 1M for it min taking JAXRS as sample (with a json provider) but for a batch it would be less ~ 500K min</div><div>- plus a JDBC driver, MySQL is 1M as well, hsqldb is 1.4M</div><div><br></div><div>So 3M seems a light app if only based on CDI. For a EE app it is a lot (JPA, CDI, JAXRS are provided).</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"></div><div class="gmail_extra">Btw. although Rod Johnson and Bob Lee were listed as co Spec Leads, pretty much every initial contribution and effort came from Google/Bob:</div><div class="gmail_extra"><a href="https://jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=330" target="_blank">https://jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=330</a><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">The EG had a couple of others like Tapestry, but I am not sure, when it e.g. adopted JSR 330 instead of its own DI library if it ever fully supported it to date?</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Calibri">Werner</span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 4:11 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cdi-dev-request@lists.jboss.org" target="_blank">cdi-dev-request@lists.jboss.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">Send cdi-dev mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
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1. Re: Time to start working on CDI lite (Romain Manni-Bucau)<br>
2. Re: Time to start working on CDI lite (Werner Keil)<br>
<br>
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<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 16:02:32 +0200<br>
From: Romain Manni-Bucau <<a href="mailto:rmannibucau@gmail.com" target="_blank">rmannibucau@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [cdi-dev] Time to start working on CDI lite<br>
To: Antonio Goncalves <<a href="mailto:antonio.goncalves@gmail.com" target="_blank">antonio.goncalves@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: cdi-dev <<a href="mailto:cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org" target="_blank">cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org</a>><br>
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<br>
Lite can have several definition, let's try to list them up if it can help:<br>
<br>
- binary size: for me until 3M for an app it is "Lite"<br>
- features number: the whole IoC set of feature is light since you almost<br>
always need it, it means you can do lighter but it wouldnt be used - check<br>
spring, who uses only spring-ioc and not context or more?<br>
- features complexity: sure we are not light here but supporting scopes<br>
already breaks "Lite-ness" IMO so not a real issue<br>
<br>
So my view is CDI "SE" is light enough - as a spec and spec can't affect<br>
implementations so seems the fight is not on the right side to me.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Romain Manni-Bucau<br>
@rmannibucau <<a href="https://twitter.com/rmannibucau" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/rmannibucau</a>> | Blog<br>
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2015-08-30 15:57 GMT+02:00 Antonio Goncalves <<a href="mailto:antonio.goncalves@gmail.com" target="_blank">antonio.goncalves@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
<br>
> It's funny, I feel I'm in Rod Johnson shoes back in Java EE 6 where he<br>
> forked 330 because he found CDI was doing too much ;o)<br>
><br>
> For me, "CDI Lite" was just basic dependency injection. The fact that CDI<br>
> can now run on SE (like JPA....), is good... but for me it has nothing to<br>
> do with Light : it's the entire thing that can bootstrap in SE. Good.<br>
><br>
> So what is Lite for you guys ?<br>
><br>
> Antonio<br>
><br>
> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 3:44 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <<a href="mailto:rmannibucau@gmail.com" target="_blank">rmannibucau@gmail.com</a><br>
> > wrote:<br>
><br>
>> 2015-08-30 15:22 GMT+02:00 John D. Ament <<a href="mailto:john.d.ament@gmail.com" target="_blank">john.d.ament@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
>><br>
>>> Personally, I'm not in favor of a slimmed down runtime. It was tried<br>
>>> with EJB, but never implemented properly (most implementations that support<br>
>>> EJB-lite actually support the entire thing, except for deprecated stuff).<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>> +1, most of CDI is basic and quickly any light version will miss events<br>
>> or other thing - in particular in maintaining micro services from<br>
>> experience. Size of an implementation can easily be < 1M so not sure it<br>
>> would bring anything. Only important point is what Antoine started to do ie<br>
>> ensuring EE and SE parts are clearly identified and split in the spec.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>> I think if we define SE properly we won't have a need for this.<br>
>>><br>
>>> John<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 8:07 AM Antonio Goncalves <<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:antonio.goncalves@gmail.com" target="_blank">antonio.goncalves@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>>> @Antoine, so which content do you see in CDI Lite ? Are you sure about<br>
>>>> events ?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I'm in favor of a "fatter" 330 that would have :<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> - @Inject : already there<br>
>>>> - @Qualifier : already there<br>
>>>> -<br>
>>>> *Producers and disposers *<br>
>>>> -<br>
>>>> *Programatic lookup *<br>
>>>> - *Java SE Bootstrap*<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> When you say "*The goal here is not to propose a new EE profile but a<br>
>>>> subspec*", 330 could already be seen as a subspec. If you put events<br>
>>>> apparts, what would be missing in this list in your point of view ? And<br>
>>>> what obstacles do you see in archieving this ?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> To boostrap CDI we have a CDIProvider, why not having an<br>
>>>> InjectionProvider just to bootstrap 330 (then, CDIProvider could extend<br>
>>>> InjectionProvider, so it bootstraps the all thing) ?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Antonio<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 9:09 AM, Antoine Sabot-Durand <<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:antoine@sabot-durand.net" target="_blank">antoine@sabot-durand.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>> Yes Arjan, I think it's the first reason. We really should work with<br>
>>>>> them to understand what should be added to CDI 2.0 to have it as a first<br>
>>>>> citizen DI in their spec.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Le sam. 29 ao?t 2015 ? 23:15, arjan tijms <<a href="mailto:arjan.tijms@gmail.com" target="_blank">arjan.tijms@gmail.com</a>> a<br>
>>>>> ?crit :<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 8:45 PM, Antonio Goncalves<br>
>>>>>> <<a href="mailto:antonio.goncalves@gmail.com" target="_blank">antonio.goncalves@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>> > I remember talking with the JAX-RS guys (Java EE), years ago (back<br>
>>>>>> in EE6),<br>
>>>>>> > and their answer for not adopting CDI was "too heavy".<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> I can't find an exact reference anymore, but I somewhat remember that<br>
>>>>>> one of the reasons was also simply that CDI as a general solution<br>
>>>>>> finished late in Java EE 6, while JAX-RS finished earlier and had all<br>
>>>>>> the work for their own DI solution already done.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> --<br>
>>>> Antonio Goncalves<br>
>>>> Software architect, Java Champion and Pluralsight author<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Web site <<a href="http://www.antoniogoncalves.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.antoniogoncalves.org</a>> | Twitter<br>
>>>> <<a href="http://twitter.com/agoncal" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/agoncal</a>> | LinkedIn<br>
>>>> <<a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal</a>> | Pluralsight<br>
>>>> <<a href="http://pluralsight.com/training/Authors/Details/antonio-goncalves" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://pluralsight.com/training/Authors/Details/antonio-goncalves</a>> | Paris<br>
>>>> JUG <<a href="http://www.parisjug.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.parisjug.org</a>> | Devoxx France <<a href="http://www.devoxx.fr" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.devoxx.fr</a>><br>
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>>>><br>
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>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Antonio Goncalves<br>
> Software architect, Java Champion and Pluralsight author<br>
><br>
> Web site <<a href="http://www.antoniogoncalves.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.antoniogoncalves.org</a>> | Twitter<br>
> <<a href="http://twitter.com/agoncal" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/agoncal</a>> | LinkedIn<br>
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