<div dir="ltr">Well if we found a way to offer some level of modularity and optionality (despite SE or EE 8 not putting a strong emphasis on either yet) I would certainly see it as an option. This could keep the size for some apps down if they use other event systems already.<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Calibri">Werner </span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 9:11 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cdi-dev-request@lists.jboss.org" target="_blank">cdi-dev-request@lists.jboss.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send cdi-dev mailing list submissions to<br>
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1. Re: Time to start working on CDI lite (Romain Manni-Bucau)<br>
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Message: 1<br>
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 21:11:24 +0200<br>
From: Romain Manni-Bucau <<a href="mailto:rmannibucau@gmail.com">rmannibucau@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [cdi-dev] Time to start working on CDI lite<br>
To: Werner Keil <<a href="mailto:werner.keil@gmail.com">werner.keil@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: cdi-dev <<a href="mailto:cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org">cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org</a>><br>
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2015-08-30 20:29 GMT+02:00 Werner Keil <<a href="mailto:werner.keil@gmail.com">werner.keil@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
<br>
> As there is well-established event handling on the SE and ME side, in most<br>
> cases based on java.util.EventObject, I could imagine CDI events being<br>
> either outside a "lite" profile or at least optional, should we consider<br>
> optionality.<br>
><br>
><br>
not sure I agree, SE has an event hierarchy but its listener model is not<br>
as usable as CDI most of the time because of the register side<br>
<br>
<br>
> Werner<br>
><br>
> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 6:10 PM, <<a href="mailto:cdi-dev-request@lists.jboss.org">cdi-dev-request@lists.jboss.org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Send cdi-dev mailing list submissions to<br>
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>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
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>> Today's Topics:<br>
>><br>
>> 1. Re: cdi-dev Digest, Vol 57, Issue 33 (Romain Manni-Bucau)<br>
>> 2. Re: Time to start working on CDI lite (Antonio Goncalves)<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 2<br>
>> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 18:09:41 +0200<br>
>> From: Antonio Goncalves <<a href="mailto:antonio.goncalves@gmail.com">antonio.goncalves@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [cdi-dev] Time to start working on CDI lite<br>
>> To: Romain Manni-Bucau <<a href="mailto:rmannibucau@gmail.com">rmannibucau@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Cc: cdi-dev <<a href="mailto:cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org">cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org</a>><br>
>> Message-ID:<br>
>> <CA+ZZq9-YFcTKuZr=+6v=<br>
>> <a href="mailto:wH-w670E%2B%2BqgBrN36DsToFEidUzenQ@mail.gmail.com">wH-w670E++qgBrN36DsToFEidUzenQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
>><br>
>> For me, a Light version of CDI is clearly the features number. That's why<br>
>> I<br>
>> don't see events in it.<br>
>><br>
>> For me, a CDI Lite would just focus on DI. If CDI has @Produces and Spring<br>
>> has @Bean, then it's because 330 lakes this functionality.<br>
>><br>
>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <<br>
>> <a href="mailto:rmannibucau@gmail.com">rmannibucau@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> > Lite can have several definition, let's try to list them up if it can<br>
>> help:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > - binary size: for me until 3M for an app it is "Lite"<br>
>> > - features number: the whole IoC set of feature is light since you<br>
>> almost<br>
>> > always need it, it means you can do lighter but it wouldnt be used -<br>
>> check<br>
>> > spring, who uses only spring-ioc and not context or more?<br>
>> > - features complexity: sure we are not light here but supporting scopes<br>
>> > already breaks "Lite-ness" IMO so not a real issue<br>
>> ><br>
>> > So my view is CDI "SE" is light enough - as a spec and spec can't affect<br>
>> > implementations so seems the fight is not on the right side to me.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > Romain Manni-Bucau<br>
>> > @rmannibucau <<a href="https://twitter.com/rmannibucau" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/rmannibucau</a>> | Blog<br>
>> > <<a href="http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com</a>> | Github<br>
>> > <<a href="https://github.com/rmannibucau" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://github.com/rmannibucau</a>> | LinkedIn<br>
>> > <<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau</a>> | Tomitriber<br>
>> > <<a href="http://www.tomitribe.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.tomitribe.com</a>><br>
>> ><br>
>> > 2015-08-30 15:57 GMT+02:00 Antonio Goncalves <<br>
>> <a href="mailto:antonio.goncalves@gmail.com">antonio.goncalves@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> > :<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> It's funny, I feel I'm in Rod Johnson shoes back in Java EE 6 where he<br>
>> >> forked 330 because he found CDI was doing too much ;o)<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> For me, "CDI Lite" was just basic dependency injection. The fact that<br>
>> CDI<br>
>> >> can now run on SE (like JPA....), is good... but for me it has nothing<br>
>> to<br>
>> >> do with Light : it's the entire thing that can bootstrap in SE. Good.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> So what is Lite for you guys ?<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Antonio<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 3:44 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <<br>
>> >> <a href="mailto:rmannibucau@gmail.com">rmannibucau@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> >><br>
>> >>> 2015-08-30 15:22 GMT+02:00 John D. Ament <<a href="mailto:john.d.ament@gmail.com">john.d.ament@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>>> Personally, I'm not in favor of a slimmed down runtime. It was tried<br>
>> >>>> with EJB, but never implemented properly (most implementations that<br>
>> support<br>
>> >>>> EJB-lite actually support the entire thing, except for deprecated<br>
>> stuff).<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>> +1, most of CDI is basic and quickly any light version will miss<br>
>> events<br>
>> >>> or other thing - in particular in maintaining micro services from<br>
>> >>> experience. Size of an implementation can easily be < 1M so not sure<br>
>> it<br>
>> >>> would bring anything. Only important point is what Antoine started to<br>
>> do ie<br>
>> >>> ensuring EE and SE parts are clearly identified and split in the spec.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>>> I think if we define SE properly we won't have a need for this.<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> John<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 8:07 AM Antonio Goncalves <<br>
>> >>>> <a href="mailto:antonio.goncalves@gmail.com">antonio.goncalves@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>>> @Antoine, so which content do you see in CDI Lite ? Are you sure<br>
>> about<br>
>> >>>>> events ?<br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>> I'm in favor of a "fatter" 330 that would have :<br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>> - @Inject : already there<br>
>> >>>>> - @Qualifier : already there<br>
>> >>>>> -<br>
>> >>>>> *Producers and disposers *<br>
>> >>>>> -<br>
>> >>>>> *Programatic lookup *<br>
>> >>>>> - *Java SE Bootstrap*<br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>> When you say "*The goal here is not to propose a new EE profile but<br>
>> a<br>
>> >>>>> subspec*", 330 could already be seen as a subspec. If you put events<br>
>> >>>>> apparts, what would be missing in this list in your point of view ?<br>
>> And<br>
>> >>>>> what obstacles do you see in archieving this ?<br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>> To boostrap CDI we have a CDIProvider, why not having an<br>
>> >>>>> InjectionProvider just to bootstrap 330 (then, CDIProvider could<br>
>> extend<br>
>> >>>>> InjectionProvider, so it bootstraps the all thing) ?<br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>> Antonio<br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 9:09 AM, Antoine Sabot-Durand <<br>
>> >>>>> <a href="mailto:antoine@sabot-durand.net">antoine@sabot-durand.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>>> Yes Arjan, I think it's the first reason. We really should work<br>
>> with<br>
>> >>>>>> them to understand what should be added to CDI 2.0 to have it as a<br>
>> first<br>
>> >>>>>> citizen DI in their spec.<br>
>> >>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>> Le sam. 29 ao?t 2015 ? 23:15, arjan tijms <<a href="mailto:arjan.tijms@gmail.com">arjan.tijms@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> a<br>
>> >>>>>> ?crit :<br>
>> >>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 8:45 PM, Antonio Goncalves<br>
>> >>>>>>> <<a href="mailto:antonio.goncalves@gmail.com">antonio.goncalves@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> >>>>>>> > I remember talking with the JAX-RS guys (Java EE), years ago<br>
>> (back<br>
>> >>>>>>> in EE6),<br>
>> >>>>>>> > and their answer for not adopting CDI was "too heavy".<br>
>> >>>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>>> I can't find an exact reference anymore, but I somewhat remember<br>
>> that<br>
>> >>>>>>> one of the reasons was also simply that CDI as a general solution<br>
>> >>>>>>> finished late in Java EE 6, while JAX-RS finished earlier and had<br>
>> all<br>
>> >>>>>>> the work for their own DI solution already done.<br>
>> >>>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>><br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>> --<br>
>> >>>>> Antonio Goncalves<br>
>> >>>>> Software architect, Java Champion and Pluralsight author<br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>> Web site <<a href="http://www.antoniogoncalves.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.antoniogoncalves.org</a>> | Twitter<br>
>> >>>>> <<a href="http://twitter.com/agoncal" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/agoncal</a>> | LinkedIn<br>
>> >>>>> <<a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal</a>> | Pluralsight<br>
>> >>>>> <<a href="http://pluralsight.com/training/Authors/Details/antonio-goncalves" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://pluralsight.com/training/Authors/Details/antonio-goncalves</a>><br>
>> | Paris<br>
>> >>>>> JUG <<a href="http://www.parisjug.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.parisjug.org</a>> | Devoxx France <<a href="http://www.devoxx.fr" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.devoxx.fr</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
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>> >>>>><br>
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>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>
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>> >>>><br>
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>> >>>> code under the Apache License, Version 2 (<br>
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>> >><br>
>> >> --<br>
>> >> Antonio Goncalves<br>
>> >> Software architect, Java Champion and Pluralsight author<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Web site <<a href="http://www.antoniogoncalves.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.antoniogoncalves.org</a>> | Twitter<br>
>> >> <<a href="http://twitter.com/agoncal" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/agoncal</a>> | LinkedIn<br>
>> >> <<a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal</a>> | Pluralsight<br>
>> >> <<a href="http://pluralsight.com/training/Authors/Details/antonio-goncalves" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://pluralsight.com/training/Authors/Details/antonio-goncalves</a>> |<br>
>> Paris<br>
>> >> JUG <<a href="http://www.parisjug.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.parisjug.org</a>> | Devoxx France <<a href="http://www.devoxx.fr" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.devoxx.fr</a>><br>
>> >><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Antonio Goncalves<br>
>> Software architect, Java Champion and Pluralsight author<br>
>><br>
>> Web site <<a href="http://www.antoniogoncalves.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.antoniogoncalves.org</a>> | Twitter<br>
>> <<a href="http://twitter.com/agoncal" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/agoncal</a>> | LinkedIn <<br>
>> <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal</a>> |<br>
>> Pluralsight<br>
>> <<a href="http://pluralsight.com/training/Authors/Details/antonio-goncalves" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://pluralsight.com/training/Authors/Details/antonio-goncalves</a>> |<br>
>> Paris<br>
>> JUG <<a href="http://www.parisjug.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.parisjug.org</a>> | Devoxx France <<a href="http://www.devoxx.fr" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.devoxx.fr</a>><br>
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