[hibernate-dev] Hosting of binaries

Fri Aug 14 08:12:43 EDT 2015

I played with BinTray some this morning, along with Sanne and Gunnar via
IRC.  Assuming we all think it is a good idea to have a presence on BinTray
(and that seems to be a consensus), the next question becomes what to
upload here[1].  Sanne and Gunnar and I tried to get our heads around
BinTray concepts (repos, packages, versions) and how to best apply them for
our needs.

In BinTray, you have "typed" repositories.  Specifically we'd be interested
in 'generic' and 'maven' types for release bundles ("SF bundles") and
dependency-management artifacts respectively.  They also offer rpm, docker,
virtual box, etc typed repos.

The concept of a package is a bit open-ended.  Initially I was unsure of
the correct granularity between BinTray repositories and packages, and
projects/artifacts.  However, the guide[2] on importing info from GitHub
has the proper alignment I think.  We'd have 1 maven repo, and 1 bundle
(generic) repo.  Within each we'd have a package for each project
(hibernate-orm, hibernate-search, etc).  And then versions under those.

Packages can easily be linked into JCenter, which is BinTray's top-level
maven repo.

The local repo and package give us a nice place to point people in release
notes, announcements, etc.  Inclusion in JCenter gives nice unified url
access for builds.

[1] - And also I think the question becomes, to some degree, what we
consider the authoritative source for these maven and bundle artifacts.
[2] -
https://bintray.com/docs/usermanual/uploads/uploads_importingfromgithub.html

On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 1:27 PM Brett Meyer <brmeyer at redhat.com> wrote:

> > I really have no idea what you mean wrt "their ethics".  Can you
> elaborate?
>
> Wrapping binaries and including bloatware, ads posing as large Download
> buttons and leading to shady sites, parent company more interested in
> squeezing out profit through sketchy means, etc.  (Although, it sounds like
> the latter may be changing.  Supposedly the parent company recently dropped
> both SF and Slashdot.)
>
> > For release bundles, again JBoss server is a bit niche to me.  I'm ok
> with
> > making sure these end up there *as well* but I do not think it should be
> > the primary location.  To me that is SourceForge or BinTray.
>
> Fair point -- sounds reasonable.  I'd personally prefer BinTray, but
> doesn't matter that much.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Steve Ebersole" <steve at hibernate.org>
> > To: "Brett Meyer" <brmeyer at redhat.com>, "Hibernate Dev" <
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2015 11:05:23 AM
> > Subject: Re: [hibernate-dev] Hosting of binaries
> >
> > TBH SourceForge is generally the least of my worries when doing a release
> > nowadays.  Yes I have had trouble with it the last 2 releases due to
> their
> > outage, but honestly the JBoss Nexus has been a bigger pain-point more
> > often.  And blogging is getting there too.
> >
> > Unless I am mistaken, distribution is the only thing we use the SF
> hosting
> > for at the moment.  I really have no idea what you mean wrt "their
> > ethics".  Can you elaborate?
> >
> > The question is alternatives.  We discussed GitHub releases on another
> > thread, so I won't go back into that; I think we all agree that is not
> the
> > best idea.  Which leaves us BinTray and JBoss.
> >
> > In general I think I'd prefer "well known" solutions.  If someone is
> > looking for a release, chances are they are going to one of these central
> > places (Maven Central, Bintray/JCenter, SourceForge).  The JBoss download
> > server is a bit niche, imo.  Granted this is partially education and/or
> > documentation to point people to the "right place".  But my current
> > thinking is starting to shift to covering all the right places.
> >
> > For dependency-management artifacts, why not make sure we publish to all
> of
> > them?  Maven Central, JBoss Nexus, JCenter.  The thing that has killed my
> > last few release attempts has been JBoss Nexus (*transient* failures to
> > upload artifacts).  I'd *love* to cut that out of the release process.
> Of
> > course it eventually needs to end up there.  So we'd have to consider
> > options for that to happen.  But ultimately I'd love to have a solution
> > that simply ensures the artifacts end up in all 3 (and possibly more)
> > places.
> >
> > For release bundles, again JBoss server is a bit niche to me.  I'm ok
> with
> > making sure these end up there *as well* but I do not think it should be
> > the primary location.  To me that is SourceForge or BinTray.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 9:50 AM Brett Meyer <brmeyer at redhat.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Sorry, late to this...
> > >
> > > My vote would be to get rid of SourceForge entirely.  I can't stand
> their
> > > ethics, services, or downtime...
> > >
> > > We use download.jboss.org for Artificer and haven't had any issues.
> > > Fully supports SCP or SFTP -- I already have it scripted and would be
> more
> > > than happy to help put it together for Hibernate.  Plus,
> > > jboss.org/redhat.org now include Splunk for parsing the server logs --
> > > getting download metrics is fairly straight-forward.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Steve Ebersole" <steve at hibernate.org>
> > > > To: "Emmanuel Bernard" <emmanuel at hibernate.org>, "Gunnar Morling" <
> > > gunnar at hibernate.org>
> > > > Cc: "Hibernate Dev" <hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org>
> > > > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 2:37:29 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [hibernate-dev] Hosting of binaries
> > > >
> > > > FWIW the SourceForge upload UI seems to be restored.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 2:14 AM Emmanuel Bernard <
> emmanuel at hibernate.org
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > For info, SourceForge hopes to restore ssh access (the last service
> > > they
> > > > > will activate) August 3rd.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> http://sourceforge.net/blog/sourceforge-infrastructure-and-service-restoration-update-for-728/
> > > > >
> > > > > > On 28 Jul 2015, at 10:27, Gunnar Morling <gunnar at hibernate.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your proposed order seems good. I'd exclude GitHub if it's not
> > > > > scriptable (UI only) as this will hinder releases from the CI
> server.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2015-07-28 9:39 GMT+02:00 Emmanuel Bernard <
> emmanuel at hibernate.org
> > > > > <mailto:emmanuel at hibernate.org>>:
> > > > > > As some of you know Sourceforge has had a severe distributed file
> > > system
> > > > > corruption and they have been working on it for a full week. You
> can
> > > read
> > > > > their blog for regular updates http://sourceforge.net/blog/ <
> > > > > http://sourceforge.net/blog/>
> > > > > > The concrete issue for us is that we cannot upload new files:
> > > Hibernate
> > > > > Validator and Hibernate ORM are now pending a release.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are 4 options on the table
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Be patient::
> > > > > > SourceForge will eventually reopen upload, I imagine it might
> take
> > > form
> > > > > one to two weeks.
> > > > > > Their binary hosting support is relatively correct and all of our
> > > > > download statistics are there.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Move to download.jboss.org <http://download.jboss.org/>::
> > > > > > JBoss has a facility to host binaries. WildFly amongst other uses
> > > it. We
> > > > > can ask them if they are happy with it.
> > > > > > It is not connected to the rest of the forum/CMS infra, it’s a
> simple
> > > > > file upload AFAIK so easily scriptable.
> > > > > > They also offer statistics but how needs to be investigated.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Move to GitHub::
> > > > > > GitHub has a binary upload facility. I could only find a web
> based
> > > > > approach (can it be done programmatically?).
> > > > > > They don’t seem to have any statistics service, which is a big
> > > negative
> > > > > point.
> > > > > > Also I don’t trust GitHub anymore for their binary hosting. They
> had
> > > a
> > > > > version in the past that they scrapped with barely no notice. I’m
> not
> > > > > exactly willing to give them my trust again.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Move to BinTray::
> > > > > > Binary hosting is their life and blood. People seem happy with
> them.
> > > It
> > > > > seems however that the statistics require a paying package instead
> of
> > > the
> > > > > free oss tier.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think we should try in the following order:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. Be patient with Sourceforge (but for how long?)
> > > > > > 2. go for download.jboss.org <http://download.jboss.org/> and
> before
> > > > > that ask around for the process and stability of the infrastructure
> > > > > > 3. explore Bintray
> > > > > > 4. GitHub (did I say that I no longer trust their binary hosting
> > > > > support?)
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org <mailto:
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org>
> > > > > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev <
> > > > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev>
> > > > >
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