[hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Sanne Grinovero]

Sorry for the confusion, my comment was indeed orthogonal and actually
meant to get us all somwhat on the same page, as I have the feeling we
have been proposing conflicting design changes (both here and in chat)
because there is no agreement on the intent. I took that as a sign
that our strategy needed to get some quorum first, but it was meant to
bring closure on this change to go live asap, and possibly reduce
debate on future proposals.
As a suggestion maybe next time we start with the intent.

I had already given my blessing to merge this and haven't changed my
mind (I'd say so explicitly!). This is great progress and I'm eager to
see it merged.

> Yoann didn't change anything about which versions are advertised.

He did. What you're probably missing is that my comment was
championing it: the main Search landing page highlights the link to
the latest series (and description) rather than to a pointless
sourceforce download. (Steve understood it)

Also I'm essentially conceding you're right in shutting down Search
5.7 (in subsequent work!) but for consistency reasons, not least
people would wonder why there's a gap, I'd move all versions except
latest to some form of "archived versions" or "previous series",
whatever, exactly like Steve suggested. Which doesn't mean hard thye
are going to be hard to find, but nudging people into the latest
because it's the only thing we recommend rather than giving them
various choices.
All "series" pages need to stay for this to work nicely, which implies
we definitely need the "series landing pages" Yoann introduced;
un-exploding the menu of the series would help in the future when
we'll have more - and that's why I suggested the change but it can
wait.

I don't see the conflict with Yoann's work; if any it's an important
milestone. Frankly I'm confused how my suggestion was interpreted as a
no-go; possibly as I didn't reply directly to your question about
going ahead? I didn't reply on that directly because you made it clear
you were waiting on Emmanuel's go ahead, but sorry anyway for the
ambiguous message :) Damn mailing lists are hard!

Thanks again!
Sanne


On 22 September 2017 at 18:45, Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Sanne,
>
> IMHO, this is an orthogonal discussion to the problem Yoann is trying to
> solve.
>
> Yoann didn't change anything about which versions are advertised.
>
> What I'm saying is that, if when we start a move, we have 4 other
> discussions about 4 other things we want to change, we won't do a move
> anymore.
>
> Just to show you your point will generate more discussion and is not as easy
> as it seems:
>
> I tend to agree that we present too many versions but I think we have to
> think carefully about what we want to do about that (you're already talking
> about the OGM exceptions, but we will also have a Search exception when ORM
> 6 will be released as it will require some time for us to port Search to 6).
>
> What I was saying yesterday is that I don't think keeping Search 5.7 has
> value as people shouldn't use that version - there's no good reason for it.
> I'm more torn about 5.6 as people might find it useful if they are stuck on
> ORM 5.1 for whatever reason (WildFly, difficulty to upgrade...).
>
> So this is not an easy debate and I don't think we should block Yoann's work
> for this.
>
> Note that It can be quite frustrating when you invested time in something
> and you can never merge what you did because over the time we include other
> subjects in the discussion. Let's be more agile about it.
>
> We agreed it was a good change, let's merge it and iterate from there.
>
> --
> Guillaume
>
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 4:49 PM, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
>>
>> After some chats and a night of sleep on this, I think we need to stop
>> obsessing about guiding people into the choice among multiple minor
>> versions: it's hard enough that they have to pick a project.
>>
>> We need to encourage people to use the latest versions and we need to
>> send a clear, strong message about this, no middle ground fiddling
>> with names and definitions
>>
>> We can give them a choice between using the latest stable vs the
>> latest development, but beyond this we're giving too much choice.
>>
>> Yet I do believe we should make it "not-hard" for people looking for
>> details of other recent versions; could we consider them all
>> "archived" ? Some drop downs on key areas like the ones in ORM today
>> would still be welcome to make it easy to find - but let's remove the
>> version choice from the "primary navigation path".
>>
>> There are some exceptional cases coming to mind which would need some
>> mitigation; for example the fact that OGM won't work with the latest
>> Search and ORM releases!
>> But there are better solutions than to pollute the website experience
>> by making the matching versions too visible, for example bundle it
>> with OGM, link to the right versions from the OGM pages, or have the
>> modules eventually pull-in the required dependencies, etc...
>> (technical details irrelevant in this context).
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sanne
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 22 September 2017 at 12:21, Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> *IF* you are willing to improve a minor point: I didn't expect the
>> >> "Releases" menu to be expanded when not being in any of these
>> >> sections.
>> >
>> >
>> > Let's keep that one for another time.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Related: I wouldn't highlight both the current release and the
>> >> "Releases" label, the shading looks odd and misaligned.
>> >
>> >
>> > Yoann fixed it.
>> >
>> > Could we push that version to production and iterate after if required?
>> >
>> > It's a tad better than what we have now and I don't see a reason to
>> > delay it
>> > more.
>> >
>> > Emmanuel?
>> >
>> > --
>> > Guillaume
>> >
>
>