[hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Sanne Grinovero]

Thanks Yoann!

Great work

On 26 September 2017 at 14:10, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
> Aaaand it's merged.
>
> I tried to clean up release YAML files as much as possible for every
> project, adding missing files as necessary.
>
> You may want to add some content to each project, most notably to the
> "what's new" section of each series, but also to the compatibility matrix of
> each series. I updated the survival guide with some information about the
> YAML files, and I'm available if you need help.
>
> Thanks for the feedback!
>
>
> Yoann Rodière
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yoann at hibernate.org
>
> On 22 September 2017 at 23:59, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org> wrote:
>>
>> Sorry for the confusion, my comment was indeed orthogonal and actually
>> meant to get us all somwhat on the same page, as I have the feeling we
>> have been proposing conflicting design changes (both here and in chat)
>> because there is no agreement on the intent. I took that as a sign
>> that our strategy needed to get some quorum first, but it was meant to
>> bring closure on this change to go live asap, and possibly reduce
>> debate on future proposals.
>> As a suggestion maybe next time we start with the intent.
>>
>> I had already given my blessing to merge this and haven't changed my
>> mind (I'd say so explicitly!). This is great progress and I'm eager to
>> see it merged.
>>
>> > Yoann didn't change anything about which versions are advertised.
>>
>> He did. What you're probably missing is that my comment was
>> championing it: the main Search landing page highlights the link to
>> the latest series (and description) rather than to a pointless
>> sourceforce download. (Steve understood it)
>>
>> Also I'm essentially conceding you're right in shutting down Search
>> 5.7 (in subsequent work!) but for consistency reasons, not least
>> people would wonder why there's a gap, I'd move all versions except
>> latest to some form of "archived versions" or "previous series",
>> whatever, exactly like Steve suggested. Which doesn't mean hard thye
>> are going to be hard to find, but nudging people into the latest
>> because it's the only thing we recommend rather than giving them
>> various choices.
>> All "series" pages need to stay for this to work nicely, which implies
>> we definitely need the "series landing pages" Yoann introduced;
>> un-exploding the menu of the series would help in the future when
>> we'll have more - and that's why I suggested the change but it can
>> wait.
>>
>> I don't see the conflict with Yoann's work; if any it's an important
>> milestone. Frankly I'm confused how my suggestion was interpreted as a
>> no-go; possibly as I didn't reply directly to your question about
>> going ahead? I didn't reply on that directly because you made it clear
>> you were waiting on Emmanuel's go ahead, but sorry anyway for the
>> ambiguous message :) Damn mailing lists are hard!
>>
>> Thanks again!
>> Sanne
>>
>>
>> On 22 September 2017 at 18:45, Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Hi Sanne,
>> >
>> > IMHO, this is an orthogonal discussion to the problem Yoann is trying to
>> > solve.
>> >
>> > Yoann didn't change anything about which versions are advertised.
>> >
>> > What I'm saying is that, if when we start a move, we have 4 other
>> > discussions about 4 other things we want to change, we won't do a move
>> > anymore.
>> >
>> > Just to show you your point will generate more discussion and is not as
>> > easy
>> > as it seems:
>> >
>> > I tend to agree that we present too many versions but I think we have to
>> > think carefully about what we want to do about that (you're already
>> > talking
>> > about the OGM exceptions, but we will also have a Search exception when
>> > ORM
>> > 6 will be released as it will require some time for us to port Search to
>> > 6).
>> >
>> > What I was saying yesterday is that I don't think keeping Search 5.7 has
>> > value as people shouldn't use that version - there's no good reason for
>> > it.
>> > I'm more torn about 5.6 as people might find it useful if they are stuck
>> > on
>> > ORM 5.1 for whatever reason (WildFly, difficulty to upgrade...).
>> >
>> > So this is not an easy debate and I don't think we should block Yoann's
>> > work
>> > for this.
>> >
>> > Note that It can be quite frustrating when you invested time in
>> > something
>> > and you can never merge what you did because over the time we include
>> > other
>> > subjects in the discussion. Let's be more agile about it.
>> >
>> > We agreed it was a good change, let's merge it and iterate from there.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Guillaume
>> >
>> > On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 4:49 PM, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> After some chats and a night of sleep on this, I think we need to stop
>> >> obsessing about guiding people into the choice among multiple minor
>> >> versions: it's hard enough that they have to pick a project.
>> >>
>> >> We need to encourage people to use the latest versions and we need to
>> >> send a clear, strong message about this, no middle ground fiddling
>> >> with names and definitions
>> >>
>> >> We can give them a choice between using the latest stable vs the
>> >> latest development, but beyond this we're giving too much choice.
>> >>
>> >> Yet I do believe we should make it "not-hard" for people looking for
>> >> details of other recent versions; could we consider them all
>> >> "archived" ? Some drop downs on key areas like the ones in ORM today
>> >> would still be welcome to make it easy to find - but let's remove the
>> >> version choice from the "primary navigation path".
>> >>
>> >> There are some exceptional cases coming to mind which would need some
>> >> mitigation; for example the fact that OGM won't work with the latest
>> >> Search and ORM releases!
>> >> But there are better solutions than to pollute the website experience
>> >> by making the matching versions too visible, for example bundle it
>> >> with OGM, link to the right versions from the OGM pages, or have the
>> >> modules eventually pull-in the required dependencies, etc...
>> >> (technical details irrelevant in this context).
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Sanne
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 22 September 2017 at 12:21, Guillaume Smet
>> >> <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Sanne Grinovero
>> >> > <sanne at hibernate.org>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> *IF* you are willing to improve a minor point: I didn't expect the
>> >> >> "Releases" menu to be expanded when not being in any of these
>> >> >> sections.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Let's keep that one for another time.
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Related: I wouldn't highlight both the current release and the
>> >> >> "Releases" label, the shading looks odd and misaligned.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Yoann fixed it.
>> >> >
>> >> > Could we push that version to production and iterate after if
>> >> > required?
>> >> >
>> >> > It's a tad better than what we have now and I don't see a reason to
>> >> > delay it
>> >> > more.
>> >> >
>> >> > Emmanuel?
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Guillaume
>> >> >
>> >
>> >
>
>