[hibernate-dev] Stride

Tue May 22 04:38:35 EDT 2018

I see it much simpler.

We're moving to Stride because that's how HipChat evolved.

On Tue, 22 May 2018, 09:34 Yoann Rodiere, <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:

> I think the problem here is about how we're choosing to migrate to another
> tool. We are basically moving to Stride because Atlassian is being
> uncooperative with updating HipChat, even though Stride is still not fully
> functional.
> Atlassian made HipChat, and we're not happy with HipChat. Atlassian made
> Stride too, so let's not trust them blindly? Sure, we can always move to
> another platform after moving to Stride, but it'll be a waste of time for
> everyone. Let's see what our options really are, first!
>
> I don't think we have many needs, and frankly I don't care which tool we'll
> be using. I'd rather it be open source, but I'll just use whatever we pick
> in the end, as long as I can write messages and receive messages. But I
> want people to be on this platform: both the team, and ideally community
> members. So let's just make sure everyone is at least comfortable with our
> choice.
> Sure some features are not useful to everybody, but in the end it's a
> matter of taste and personal workflow, and we can't argue about that
> without enforcing a standardized workflow. I think it would be more useful
> to just list what we want, then see which platforms fit best, then pick
> one, compromising as needed.
>
> I started a document to compare various solutions, feel free to add
> anything you think is relevant:
>
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oiI_SO4O5OwTx7Fd8_lvhOvVcIIYLbnSY1MAqemz-JI/edit?usp=sharing
>
> ... But I think the one criteria that will make us pick Stride is free
> hosting. Most other platforms either do not have a free plan, or do not
> provide all of their features to free plan users. Zulip apparently removes
> OAuth authentication in its free plan, for instance. The Infinispan team
> has OAuth authentication enabled though... Do they pay for their Zulip
> instance?
>
> Of course if we could host it ourselves it would be another story, but I
> doubt anyone wants to add that to the list of tools we currently maintain.
>
>
> On Mon, 21 May 2018 at 14:02 Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 1:37 PM, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > You can't "do your job" without yet another way to get notified of CI
> job
> > > status?  I'm confused - did Jenkins remove all of its other forms of
> > > notification?  ;)  Seriously though,  I've never understood this desire
> > to
> > > have yet another communications "inbox" spammed by automated
> > notifications
> > > - and its even worse in Hip Cat because I can never hide them.  So it
> is
> > > hard for me to incorporate this into the argument against moving.
> > >
> >
> > Typically, for the websites builds, I like to have the notifications on
> > HipChat. Not vital but it's something I appreciate.
> >
> >
> > > Y'all really wanted to move to Hip Chat in the first place even though
> to
> > > me it always felt (and feels) half-baked itself.
> > >
> >
> > I wasn't part of the team at that point.
> >
> >
> > > And if the web client is as good as the native client, I assume you use
> > > the web client instead?
> > >
> >
> > Yes. I have a pinned tab for it. Desktop notifications from the browser
> are
> > well integrated now.
> >
> >
> > > So to me it really comes down to what are the blockers to not making
> this
> > > move now.  So far I hear:
> > >
> > >    1. No Jenkins notifications - see above
> > >    2. Guest access - meh - If having to have an account to join the
> > >    discussion is bad then we should immediately make our forums
> > >    guest-accessible again as well ;)
> > >
> > > As mentioned in my email, I don't mind not having guest access if we
> have
> > some sort of external auth integration (Github/Twitter/Google). This way,
> > it avoids creating yet another account. That's what we have on our new
> > forums.
> >
> > Maybe Stride has it, I don't know, but I would like our next chat system
> to
> > have that.
> >
> > I took a look at several accounts we have on our forums and most of them
> > are from GitHub or Google (I took seven randomly and 1 had an account
> > specific to our forums - no better statistics sorry).
> >
> > >
> > >    1. There may be better options out there - at some point can we just
> > >    pick one and use it?  Is one "inbox" really that much better than
> > another
> > >    "inbox"?  And clearly I am not even tied to Hip Chat - I was one of
> > the
> > >    people wanting to not move there.  Radim, what makes Zulip so
> amazing?
> > >    2. "Coordination tool"?  Not really sure what this one is about.  Is
> > >    this back to Jenkins notifications?  If you mean a communications
> > tool, of
> > >    course it works.  They are largely the same.  Andrea, Sanne and I
> have
> > >    played with it, so we in fact do have some idea if it will (spoiler:
> > it
> > >    does)
> > >    3. We should go where WildFly goes (?).
> > >
> > > My main point is that we have no idea if Stride is stable at the
> moment.
> > They definitely don't want to massively migrate the HipChat users and I
> > found at least one comment of a person who has migrated there and is not
> > happy at all (not saying it makes all the migrated users unhappy, just
> > saying that it might be a bad move if we do it now).
> >
> > So again, what problem are we trying to solve by migrating to Stride
> while
> > it's still a work in progress? Because you reversed the question but it
> is
> > the correct question.
> >
> > - If it is the client issue, is the Stride client better integrated? And
> is
> > it enough to trigger the migration?
> > - If it's the access difficulty, does Stride allow external
> > authentications? Because that's what external users want.
> > - If it's the "it's a pain to be logged in to multiple instances", are we
> > all moving to Stride and will it solve the issue - meaning is it easier
> to
> > be connected to multiple instances?
> > - Other issues I'm not aware of?
> >
> > When you want to migrate to something new, you ponder the risks with the
> > benefits. For now, noone has stated any clear benefit, apart from "it's
> > new" and "HipChat has issues but we don't know if they will be solved by
> > Stride".
> >
> > Note that my position is not "we should stay on HipChat forever" because
> we
> > can't as they will close the service at some point. My position is:
> > - I'm not sure the risk of moving to a half-baked system is worth it if
> > there are no clear benefits (I would wait a bit)
> > - is Stride gonna solve our issues or do we need to move to another
> system?
> > (because if it's the case, let's avoid the Stride square).
> >
> > --
> > Guillaume
> > _______________________________________________
> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >
> --
> Yoann Rodiere
> yoann at hibernate.org / yrodiere at redhat.com
> Software Engineer
> Hibernate NoORM team
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