[infinispan-dev] Thread pools monitoring

Radim Vansa rvansa at redhat.com
Mon Nov 10 06:17:34 EST 2014

Could you tell (or link) us why?


On 11/10/2014 11:49 AM, Sanne Grinovero wrote:
> Could we just have a listener interface rather than playing with AOP?
> You don't want to support those libraries ;-) For example Hibernate is
> deprecating javassist.
> Sanne
> On 10 November 2014 10:41, Bela Ban <bban at redhat.com> wrote:
>> On 10/11/14 11:33, Radim Vansa wrote:
>>> No way I'd be aware of (you can specify the rule directly in annotation,
>>> but that's not what I'd like to do). Though, I don't think it would be
>>> too complicated to implement.
>>> But as I've said, I was inclining towards another AOP frameworks, or
>>> more low-level solutions such as Javassist.
>> What's the benefit of this ? I don't think you could define the
>> joinpoint in a strongly-typed fashion, so refactoring would not work
>> either if you for example change a method name. Or would it ?
>>> For example similar tool
>>> Kamon [1] uses AspectJ Weaver.
>>> Roman, do you have the document describing pros and cons of those other
>>> AOP frameworks?
>>> [1] http://kamon.io/
>>> On 11/10/2014 11:05 AM, Bela Ban wrote:
>>>> Does Byteman allow you to use annotations as injection points ? Didn't
>>>> know that. Can you show a sample RULE ?
>>>> On 10/11/14 10:22, Radim Vansa wrote:
>>>>> On 11/07/2014 02:27 PM, Bela Ban wrote:
>>>>>> On 07/11/14 13:45, Radim Vansa wrote:
>>>>>>> Hijacking thread 'Remoting package refactor' as the discussion has shifted.
>>>>>>> Sure, AOP is another approach. However, besided another limitations,
>>>>>>> Byteman rules are quite fragile with respect to different versions: if
>>>>>>> you're injecting code based on internal implementation method, when the
>>>>>>> name/signature changes, the rule is broken. Sometimes you even have to
>>>>>>> use AT LINE to formulate the injection point.
>>>>>> Right. This is the same problem though as when support needs to create a
>>>>>> (e.f. one-off) patch to be applied by a customer: they need to grab the
>>>>>> exact same version the customer is running.
>>>>>> So each diagnosis package would have to be dependent on the version (of
>>>>>> JGroups or JDG) used. Regardless of whether custom rules are added by a
>>>>>> support engineer, this has to be tested anyway before sending it off to
>>>>>> the customer.
>>>>>>> Would you accept a compile-time dependency to some annotations package
>>>>>>> in JGroups that could 'tag' the injection points? The idea is that
>>>>>>> anyone changing the source code would move the injection point
>>>>>>> annotations as well.
>>>>>> You mean something like this ?
>>>>>> @InjectionPoint("down") public void down(Event e)
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> @InjectingPoint ("num_msgs_sent")
>>>>>> protected int num_msgs_sent;
>>>>>> No, this won't work... how would you do that ?
>>>>> Yes, this is the annotation syntax I had in mind, though, I was thinking
>>>>> about more high-level abstraction what's happening than just marking
>>>>> down injection points.
>>>>> Such as
>>>>> @ReceivedData
>>>>> public void receive(@From Address sender, byte[] data, int offset, @Size
>>>>> int length) {...}
>>>>> @ProcessingMessage
>>>>> protected void passMessageUp(@Message msg, ...) { ... }
>>>>> @ProcessingBatch
>>>>> protected void deliverBatch(@Batch MessageBatch batch)  { ... }
>>>>>> I don't really like this, on a general principle: AOP should *not* have
>>>>>> to change the src code in order to work. And the fact of the matter is
>>>>>> that you won't be able to identify *all* injection points beforehand...
>>>>>> unless you want to sprinkle your code with annotations.
>>>>> I have to agree with the fact that AOP should not have to change source.
>>>>> I had a special case in mind, that is tied to JGroups inspection and
>>>>> offers a way the monitoring with zero overhead when the monitoring is
>>>>> not in place. There, you'd just conceptually describe what JGroups does.
>>>>>>> I was already thinking about this in relation with Message Flow Tracer
>>>>>>> [1] (not working right now as the JGroups have changed since I was
>>>>>>> writing that)?
>>>>>> I took a quick look: nice !
>>>>>> This is exactly what I meant. Should be some sort of rule base in a VCS,
>>>>>> to which support engineers add rules when they have a case which
>>>>>> requires it and they deem it to be generally useful.
>>>>>> Re API changes: doesn't Byteman have functionality which can check a
>>>>>> rule set against a code base (offline), to find out incompatibilities ?
>>>>>> Something like a static rule checker ?
>>>>> Right, this is possible - but you won't find if you've added another
>>>>> place that should be checked (e.g. MFT has to determine whether now
>>>>> you're processing a whole batch, or message alone - when you add a
>>>>> functionality to grab some stored messages and start processing them, as
>>>>> you do in UNICASTx, you won't spot that automatically).
>>>>> Beyond that, there are many false positives. E.g. if you have a never
>>>>> terminating loop in Runnable.run(), there is no place to inject the AT
>>>>> EXIT code and Byteman complains.
>>>>> In the end, human intervention is always required.
>>>>> Radim
>>>>>>> Roman Macor is right now updating the rules and I was
>>>>>>> hoping that we could insert annotations into JGroups that would be used
>>>>>>> instead of the rules (I was already considering different AOP framework
>>>>>>> as Byteman does not allow AT EXIT to catch on leaving exceptions [2]).
>>>>>> Yes, I've also run into this before, not really nice.
>>>>>>> Radim
>>>>>>> [1] https://github.com/rvansa/message-flow-tracer
>>>>>>> [2] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/BYTEMAN-237
>>>>>>> On 11/07/2014 01:21 PM, Bela Ban wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Radim,
>>>>>>>> no I haven't. However, you can replace the thread pools used by JGroups
>>>>>>>> and use custom pools.
>>>>>>>> I like another idea better: inject Byteman code at runtime that keeps
>>>>>>>> track of this, and *other useful stats as well*.
>>>>>>>> It would be very useful to support if we could ship a package to a
>>>>>>>> customer that is injected into their running system and grabs all the
>>>>>>>> vital stats we need for a few minutes, then removes itself again and
>>>>>>>> those stats are then sent to use as a ZIP file.
>>>>>>>> The good thing about byteman is that it can remove itself without a
>>>>>>>> trace; ie. there's no overhead before / after running byteman.
>>>>>>>> On 07/11/14 09:31, Radim Vansa wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Btw., have you ever considered checks if a thread returns to pool
>>>>>>>>> reasonably often? Some of the other datagrids use this, though there's
>>>>>>>>> not much how to react upon that beyond printing out stack traces (but
>>>>>>>>> you can at least report to management that some node seems to be broken).
>>>>>>>>> Radim
>>>>>>>>> On 11/07/2014 08:35 AM, Bela Ban wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> That's exactly what I suggested. No config gives you a shared global
>>>>>>>>>> thread pool for all caches.
>>>>>>>>>> Those caches which need a separate pool can do that via configuration
>>>>>>>>>> (and of course also programmatically)
>>>>>>>>>> On 06/11/14 20:31, Tristan Tarrant wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> My opinion is that we should aim for less configuration, i.e.
>>>>>>>>>>> threadpools should mostly have sensible defaults and be shared by
>>>>>>>>>>> default unless there are extremely good reasons for not doing so.
>>>>>>>>>>> Tristan
>>>>>>>>>>> On 06/11/14 19:40, Radim Vansa wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I second the opinion that any threadpools should be shared by default.
>>>>>>>>>>>> There are users who have hundreds or thousands of caches and having
>>>>>>>>>>>> separate threadpool for each of them could easily drain resources. And
>>>>>>>>>>>> sharing resources is the purpose of threadpools, right?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Radim
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/06/2014 04:37 PM, Bela Ban wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> #1 I would by default have 1 thread pool shared by all caches
>>>>>>>>>>>>> #2 This global thread pool should be configurable, perhaps in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <global> section ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> #3 Each cache by default uses the gobal thread pool
>>>>>>>>>>>>> #4 A cache can define its own thread pool, then it would use this one
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and not the global thread pool
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think this gives you a mixture between ease of use and flexibility in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> configuring pool per cache if needed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 06/11/14 16:23, Pedro Ruivo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/06/2014 03:01 PM, Bela Ban wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 06/11/14 15:36, Pedro Ruivo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * added a single thread remote executor service. This will handle the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FIFO deliver commands. Previously, they were handled by JGroups incoming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> threads and with a new executor service, each cache can process their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own FIFO commands concurrently.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1000. This allows multiple updates from the same sender but to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different caches to be executed in parallel, and will speed thing up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you intend to share a thread pool between the invocations handlers of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the various caches, or do they each have their own thread pool ? Or is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this configurable ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is question that cross my mind and I don't have any idea what would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be the best. So, for now, I will leave the thread pool shared between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the handlers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Never thought to make it configurable, but maybe that is the best
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> option. And maybe, it should be possible to have different max-thread
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> size per cache. For example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * all caches using this remote executor will share the same instance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <remote-executor name="shared" shared="true" max-threads=4.../>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * all caches using this remote executor will create their own thread
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pool with max-threads equals to 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <remote-executor name="low-throughput-cache" shared="false"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> max-threads=1 .../>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * all caches using this remote executor will create their own thread
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pool with max-threads equals to 1000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <remote executor name="high-throughput-cache" shared="false"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> max-thread=1000 .../>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is this what you have in mind? comments?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pedro
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> --
>> Bela Ban, JGroups lead (http://www.jgroups.org)
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Radim Vansa <rvansa at redhat.com>
JBoss DataGrid QA

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