[infinispan-dev] Hot Rod secured by default
Sebastian Laskawiec
slaskawi at redhat.com
Mon Apr 3 08:52:43 EDT 2017
That's actually a very good point but it deserves separate discussion I
think.
The point is that we get an initialized SSLEngine from WF. Then we simply
build Netty's JdkSslContext [1] (as you probably know, Netty uses its own
SSLContext; this JdkSslContext class acts as a bridge between Netty (it
implements Netty's SslContext) and JDK (it can be created from JDK's
SSLContext) world).
So if we want to depend on WF/Elytron-based SSL initialization, we need to
either stick to JDK's SSLContext or implement our own JDK's
SSLContext/Netty's OpenSSLContext [2] bridge. I created a JIRA [3] to
implement this.
[1]
https://github.com/infinispan/infinispan/blob/fd3061a684c13aa7c22d215f43910735bf7ff4a6/server/router/src/main/java/org/infinispan/server/router/router/impl/hotrod/handlers/util/SslUtils.java#L35
[2]
https://github.com/netty/netty/blob/a2304287a170dc14031928d6d2a3374705305839/handler/src/main/java/io/netty/handler/ssl/OpenSslContext.java
[3] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/ISPN-7694
On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 6:02 PM Tristan Tarrant <ttarrant at redhat.com> wrote:
You want to use OpenSSL with Netty:
http://netty.io/wiki/requirements-for-4.x.html#wiki-h4-4
Tristan
On 31/03/2017 15:55, Sebastian Laskawiec wrote:
> Unfortunately TLS still slows down stuff (a lot). When I was doing tests
> for the multi-tenancy router (which is based on TLS/SNI), my average
> results were like this:
>
> Use-caseTypeAvgError
> initConnectionAndPerform10KPutsSingleServerNoSsl1034.81714.424
> initConnectionAndPerform10KPutsSingleServerWithSsl1567.55324.872
> initConnectionAndPerform10KPutsTwoServersWithSslSni1563.22934.05
> initConnectionOnlySingleServerNoSsl*3.389*0.198
> initConnectionOnlySingleServerWithSsl*14.086*0.794
> initConnectionOnlyTwoServersWithSslSni*14.722*0.684
> perform10KPutsSingleServerNoSsl*4.602*0.585
> perform10KPutsSingleServerWithSsl*16.583*0.198
> perform10KPutsTwoServersWithSslSni*17.02*0.794
>
> This is nothing new, but initializing Hot Rod connection took was ~4
> times slower and putting 10K random strings (UUIDs) was also ~4 times
> slower. But what's worth to mention, there is no significant difference
> between TLS and TLS+SNI.
>
> As far as I know, it is possible to install specialized hardware to deal
> with encryption in data centers. It is called SSL Acceleration [1].
> However I'm not aware of any special processor instructions that can
> help you with that. But the implementations are getting better and
> better, so who knows...
>
> But getting back to the original question, I think the problem we are
> trying to solve (correct me if I'm wrong) is to prevent unauthorized
> folks to put their hands on a victims data (either pushing something
> malicious/corrupted to the cache or obtaining something from the cache).
> Another problem is transmission security - encryption. If we want our
> new devs to be secured out of the box, I think we should do both - use
> TLS (without trusting all certificated) and authentication. This makes
> Infinispan harder to use of course. So the other extremum is to turn
> both things off.
>
> I voted for the latter, making Infinispan super easy to use. But you
> guys convinced me that we should care about the security in this case
> too, so I would use PLAIN authentication + TLS. I would also love to see
> one magic switch, for example `./bin/standalone.sh --dev-mode`, which
> would turn all security off.
>
> Thanks,
> Sebastian
>
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSL_acceleration
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 9:22 PM Dan Berindei <dan.berindei at gmail.com
> <mailto:dan.berindei at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I agree with Radim, PLAIN authentication without encryption makes it
> too easy to sniff the password from another machine.
>
> I have no idea how expensive SSL encryption is in WildFly, but I think
> all recent processors have specialized instructions for helping with
> encryption, so it may not be that bad.
>
> Even with encryption, if the client trusts all certs, it may be
> possible for an attacker to insert itself in the middle and decode
> everything -- depending on network topology and what kind of access
> the attacker already has. I think it only makes sense to trust all
> certs if we also implement something like HPKP [1], to make it more
> like ssh.
>
> [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_Public_Key_Pinning
>
> Cheers
> Dan
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 7:07 PM, Wolf Fink <wfink at redhat.com
> <mailto:wfink at redhat.com>> wrote:
> > +1 to make the default secure.
> >
> > -1 SSL by default as it makes it slower and I think not most will
> use it
> >
> > -1 easy trust all certs, That sounds to me we close one door and
> make it
> > possible to open another one
> >
> >
> > What if we add an example configuration unsecured which can be
> simple copied
> > for examples and to start.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 5:31 PM, Dennis Reed <dereed at redhat.com
> <mailto:dereed at redhat.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> +1 to authentication and encryption by default.
> >> This is 2017, that's how *everything* should be configured.
> >>
> >> -1 to making it easy to trust all certs. That negates the point
of
> >> using encryption in the first place and should really never be
done.
> >>
> >> If it's too hard to configure the correct way that we think it
would
> >> turn users away, that's a usability problem that needs to be
fixed.
> >>
> >> -Dennis
> >>
> >>
> >> On 03/30/2017 09:29 AM, Tristan Tarrant wrote:
> >> > While the "unsecure" over loopback is quite tempting, I would
> prefer to
> >> > have homogeneous behaviour with the possibility to disable
> security
> >> > altogether for quick demos.
> >> > Otherwise a developer would need to code differently for the
> local use
> >> > case than for the remote one, causing more confusion.
> >> >
> >> > Tristan
> >> >
> >> > On 30/03/2017 14:54, Sebastian Laskawiec wrote:
> >> >> I agree the security out of the box is good. But at the same
> time we
> >> >> don't want to make Infinispan harder to use for new
> developers. Out of
> >> >> the box configuration should be "good enough" to start hacking.
> >> >>
> >> >> I would propose to make all the endpoints unprotected (with
> >> >> authentication disabled) on localhost/loopback and protected
when
> >> >> calling from the outside world.
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 2:39 PM Tristan Tarrant
> <ttarrant at redhat.com <mailto:ttarrant at redhat.com>
> >> >> <mailto:ttarrant at redhat.com <mailto:ttarrant at redhat.com>>>
wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Dear all,
> >> >>
> >> >> after a mini chat on IRC, I wanted to bring this to
> everybody's
> >> >> attention.
> >> >>
> >> >> We should make the Hot Rod endpoint require
> authentication in the
> >> >> out-of-the-box configuration.
> >> >> The proposal is to enable the PLAIN (or, preferably,
> DIGEST) SASL
> >> >> mechanism against the ApplicationRealm and require users
> to run the
> >> >> add-user script.
> >> >> This would achieve two goals:
> >> >> - secure out-of-the-box configuration, which is always a
> good idea
> >> >> - access to the "protected" schema and script caches which
is
> >> >> prevented
> >> >> when not on loopback on non-authenticated endpoints.
> >> >>
> >> >> Tristan
> >> >> --
> >> >> Tristan Tarrant
> >> >> Infinispan Lead
> >> >> JBoss, a division of Red Hat
> >> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
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--
Tristan Tarrant
Infinispan Lead
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
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