<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div></div><div>Right. Here we are talking about a gRPC representation of the client server interactions. Not the data schema stored in ISPN. In that model, the API is compiled by us and handed over as a package. </div><div><br>On 29 May 2018, at 15:51, Sanne Grinovero <<a href="mailto:sanne@infinispan.org">sanne@infinispan.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 29 May 2018 at 13:45, Vittorio Rigamonti <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:vrigamon@redhat.com" target="_blank">vrigamon@redhat.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>Thanks Adrian,<br><br></div>of course there's a marshalling work under the cover and that is reflected into the generated code (specially the accessor methods generated from the oneof clause).<br><br></div><div>My opinion is that on the client side this could be accepted, as long as the API are well defined and documented: application developer can build an adhoc decorator on the top if needed. The alternative to this is to develop a protostream equivalent for each supported language and it doesn't seem really feasible to me.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">This might indeed be reasonable for some developers, some languages.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Just please make sure it's not the only option, as many other developers will not expect to need a compiler at hand in various stages of the application lifecycle.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">For example when deploying a JPA model into an appserver, or just booting Hibernate in JavaSE as well, there is a strong expectation that we'll be able - at runtime - to inspect the listed Java POJOs via reflection and automatically generate whatever Infinispan will need.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Perhaps a key differentiator is between invoking Infinispan APIs (RPC) vs defining the object models and related CODECs for keys, values, streams and query results? It might get a bit more fuzzy to differentiate them for custom functions but I guess we can draw a line somewhere.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Thanks,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Sanne</div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>On the server side (java only) the situation is different: protobuf is optimized for streaming not for storing so probably a Protostream layer is needed.<br></div></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 4:47 PM, Adrian Nistor <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:anistor@redhat.com" target="_blank">anistor@redhat.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="m_4216121092935601651m_4400301142433856756moz-cite-prefix">Hi Vittorio,<br>
thanks for exploring gRPC. It seems like a very elegant solution
for exposing services. I'll have a look at your PoC soon.<br>
<br>
I feel there are some remarks that need to be made regarding gRPC.
gRPC is just some nice cheesy topping on top of protobuf. Google's
implementation of protobuf, to be more precise. <br>
It does not need handwritten marshallers, but the 'No need for
marshaller' does not accurately describe it. Marshallers are
needed and are generated under the cover by the library and so are
the data objects and you are unfortunately forced to use them.
That's both the good news and the bad news:) The whole thing looks
very promising and friendly for many uses cases, especially for
demos and PoCs :))). Nobody wants to write those marshallers. But
it starts to become a nuisance if you want to use your own data
objects.<br>
There is also the ugliness and excessive memory footprint of the
generated code, which is the reason Infinispan did not adopt the
protobuf-java library although it did adopt protobuf as an
encoding format.<br>
The Protostream library was created as an alternative
implementation to solve the aforementioned problems with the
generated code. It solves this by letting the user provide their
own data objects. And for the marshallers it gives you two
options: a) write the marshaller yourself (hated), b) annotated
your data objects and the marshaller gets generated (loved).
Protostream does not currently support service definitions right
now but this is something I started to investigate recently after
Galder asked me if I think it's doable. I think I'll only find out
after I do it:)<br>
<br>
Adrian<div><div class="m_4216121092935601651h5"><br>
<br>
On 05/28/2018 04:15 PM, Vittorio Rigamonti wrote:<br>
</div></div></div>
<blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="m_4216121092935601651h5">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi Infinispan developers,<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>I'm working on a solution for developers who need to access
Infinispan services through different programming languages.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
The focus is not on developing a full featured client, but
rather discover the value and the limits of this approach.<br>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>- is it possible to automatically generate useful clients
in different languages?<br>
</div>
<div>- can that clients interoperate on the same cache with the
same data types?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id="m_4216121092935601651m_4400301142433856756m_-8148977098275501500gmail-result_box" class="m_4216121092935601651m_4400301142433856756m_-8148977098275501500gmail-" lang="en"><span class="m_4216121092935601651m_4400301142433856756m_-8148977098275501500gmail-">I came out with a small
prototype that I would like to submit to you and on which I
would like to gather your impressions.</span></span><br>
<div><br>
You can found the project here [1]: is a gRPC-based
client/server architecture for Infinispan based on and
EmbeddedCache, with very few features exposed atm.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
Currently the project is nothing more than a poc with the
following interesting features:<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>- client can be generated in all the grpc supported
language: java, go, c++ examples are provided;<br>
</div>
<div>- the interface is full typed. No need for marshaller and
clients build in different language can cooperate on the same
cache;<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The second item is my preferred one beacuse it frees the
developer from data marshalling.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>What do you think about?<br>
</div>
<div>Sounds interesting?<br>
</div>
<div>Can you see any flaw?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
There's also a list of issues for the future [2], basically I
would like to investigate these questions:<br>
How far this architecture can go?<br>
Topology, events, queries... how many of the Infinispan
features can be fit in a grpc architecture?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you<br>
</div>
<div>Vittorio<br>
</div>
<br>
[1] <a href="https://github.com/rigazilla/ispn-grpc" target="_blank">https://github.com/rigazilla/i<wbr>spn-grpc</a><br clear="all">
<div>
<div>
<div>[2] <a href="https://github.com/rigazilla/ispn-grpc/issues" target="_blank">https://github.com/rigazilla/i<wbr>spn-grpc/issues</a><br clear="all">
<br>
</div>
<div>-- <br>
<div class="m_4216121092935601651m_4400301142433856756m_-8148977098275501500gmail-m_-8431198291286624134m_1982721755148179188gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<p style="font-weight:bold;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-size:14px;text-transform:uppercase"><span>Vittorio</span>
<span>Rigamonti</span></p>
<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:10px;margin:0px 0px 4px;text-transform:uppercase"><span>Senior
Software Engineer</span></p>
<p style="font-weight:normal;margin:0px;font-size:10px;color:rgb(153,153,153)"><a style="color:rgb(0,136,206);font-size:10px;margin:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:"overpass",sans-serif" href="https://www.redhat.com" target="_blank">Red Hat <span><br>
<br>
</span></a></p>
<span style="font-size:10px;margin:0px;color:rgb(153,153,153)">
<p style="font-size:10px;margin:0px">Milan,
Italy</p>
</span>
<p style="font-weight:normal;margin:0px 0px 6px;font-size:10px;color:rgb(153,153,153)"><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px">
<a style="color:rgb(0,136,206);font-size:10px;margin:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:"overpass",sans-serif" href="mailto:vrigamon@redhat.com" target="_blank">vrigamon@redhat.com</a><br>
</span></p>
<p style="font-weight:normal;margin:0px 0px 6px;font-size:10px;color:rgb(153,153,153)"><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px">irc: rigazilla </span>
</p>
<a href="https://red.ht/sig" target="_blank"> <img src="https://www.redhat.com/profiles/rh/themes/redhatdotcom/img/logo-red-hat-black.png" height="auto" width="90"></a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="m_4216121092935601651m_4400301142433856756mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
</div></div><pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
infinispan-dev mailing list
<a class="m_4216121092935601651m_4400301142433856756moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:infinispan-dev@lists.jboss.org" target="_blank">infinispan-dev@lists.jboss.org</a>
<a class="m_4216121092935601651m_4400301142433856756moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/infinispan-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.jboss.org/mailma<wbr>n/listinfo/infinispan-dev</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div class="m_4216121092935601651gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><p style="font-weight:bold;margin:0;padding:0;font-size:14px;text-transform:uppercase;margin-bottom:0"><span>Vittorio</span> <span>Rigamonti</span></p>
<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:10px;margin:0px 0px 4px;text-transform:uppercase"><span>Senior Software Engineer</span></p>
<p style="font-weight:normal;margin:0;font-size:10px;color:#999"><a style="color:#0088ce;font-size:10px;margin:0;text-decoration:none;font-family:'overpass',sans-serif" href="https://www.redhat.com" target="_blank">Red Hat <span><br><br></span></a></p>
<span style="font-size:10px;margin:0px;color:rgb(153,153,153)"><p style="font-size:10px;margin:0">Milan, Italy</p></span>
<p style="font-weight:normal;margin:0px 0px 6px;font-size:10px;color:rgb(153,153,153)"><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px">
<a style="color:#0088ce;font-size:10px;margin:0;text-decoration:none;font-family:'overpass',sans-serif" href="mailto:vrigamon@redhat.com" target="_blank">vrigamon@redhat.com</a><br></span></p><p style="font-weight:normal;margin:0px 0px 6px;font-size:10px;color:rgb(153,153,153)"><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px">irc: rigazilla </span>
</p>
<a href="https://red.ht/sig" target="_blank"> <img src="https://www.redhat.com/profiles/rh/themes/redhatdotcom/img/logo-red-hat-black.png" width="90" height="auto"></a></div></div></div></div>
</div>
</div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
infinispan-dev mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:infinispan-dev@lists.jboss.org">infinispan-dev@lists.jboss.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/infinispan-dev" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.jboss.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/infinispan-<wbr>dev</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>infinispan-dev mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:infinispan-dev@lists.jboss.org">infinispan-dev@lists.jboss.org</a></span><br><span><a href="https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/infinispan-dev">https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/infinispan-dev</a></span></div></blockquote></body></html>