[jboss-dev] hibernate 3.3.0 upgrade, slf4j introduction into jbossas

Bill Burke bburke at redhat.com
Mon May 5 16:00:27 EDT 2008 

Cool. Let's delay JBoss 5 another year to complete this refactoring too...

David M. Lloyd wrote:
> Sure.  Everyone uses whatever log framework they want.  Then when they 
> all go in to the appserver, it all just works.  It's like magic!
> 
> - DML
> 
> On 05/05/2008 02:30 PM, Steve Ebersole wrote:
>> Can't you just use small words for those of us that aren't deployment 
>> experts? :)
>>
>> On May 5, 2008, at 2:24 PM, David M. Lloyd wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, this is the exact basis of my idea to make emulation APIs for 
>>> AS/MC deployments.  We could provide APIs for every logging framework 
>>> known to mankind, including multiple versions of the same framework 
>>> if they happen to be incompatible (if we do our deployments correctly 
>>> anyway).
>>>
>>> Then the user just has to specify what logging API they use in their 
>>> deployment somehow (it would be cool if we could just dynamically 
>>> sniff out that info).  As Scott pointed out, we also would need a way 
>>> to parse all the different logging config formats.  Which pretty much 
>>> brings us up to date. :-)
>>>
>>> - DML
>>>
>>> On 05/05/2008 02:17 PM, Steve Ebersole wrote:
>>>> Another option might be dynamic replacement of the logging framework 
>>>> with a different impl altogether.  There is an example of this in 
>>>> allowing code using commons-logging to remain unchanged, and a 
>>>> different implementation of the commons-logging APIs to be 
>>>> substituted with slf4j logging: 
>>>> http://day-to-day-stuff.blogspot.com/2007/07/no-more-commons-logging.html  
>>>> In fact I use this setup already in the hibernate testsuite to 
>>>> account for other libraries (commons-collections, etc) which use 
>>>> commons-logging and have them dynamically use my slf4j setup.
>>>> On May 5, 2008, at 8:11 AM, David M. Lloyd wrote:
>>>>> I'm a bit hazy on the details but I understand that some logging 
>>>>> frameworks allow you to subclass a base logger class, and some 
>>>>> don't - so if you do so it's really difficult to properly weave in 
>>>>> the appropriate substitution. Last time I heard, Trustin still 
>>>>> didn't have a solution to the problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you already made the switch to JDK logging in the jbossas 
>>>>> core?  If so, is there a sensible LogManager yet?
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, do we need to do anything funky like support different 
>>>>> configurations on a per-deployment basis?  I am under the 
>>>>> impression that Glassfish does this, but I haven't figured out the 
>>>>> details yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> For configurations, I get what you're saying - though I imagine 
>>>>> there's probably users out there who want to use their own logging 
>>>>> framework and configuration in certain deployments, so I think we'd 
>>>>> need a way to support that - maybe just by detecting the presence 
>>>>> of a logging implementation in the deployment or something.
>>>>>
>>>>> Otherwise, based on what I know of the various logging 
>>>>> configuration formats, we could probably just rewrite the logging 
>>>>> configuration into a bean deployment that just uses the JDK logging 
>>>>> API to acquire and configure Logger and Handler instances, rather 
>>>>> than try to use the stupid properties system that the default 
>>>>> LogManager uses.
>>>>>
>>>>> - DML
>>>>>
>>>>> On 05/04/2008 02:42 PM, Scott Stark wrote:
>>>>>> All that I can recall as a reasonable compromise was to simply 
>>>>>> move to the jdk logging with the replacement logging handlers 
>>>>>> based on the log4j type of appenders I ported over when previously 
>>>>>> looking at this problem. Trustin has since introduced log2log, we 
>>>>>> could always use jboss retro to map framework X onto the jbossas 
>>>>>> core, but that does not cover the framwork X configuration files.
>>>>>> How I can see the mc and jbossas deployment framework fitting in 
>>>>>> is by rewriting the logging system X config files onto the current 
>>>>>> jbossas implementation if that is desired. The problem always is 
>>>>>> whether the logging in question is part of a user application, or 
>>>>>> a jbossas framework. In reality I only see jdk logging for the 
>>>>>> server frameworks and other frameworks wanting to integrate with 
>>>>>> the server logs having a jdk logger option, or an adaptor.
>>>>>> What are the log2log issues showing up?
>>>>>> David M. Lloyd wrote:
>>>>>>> Well, that's a good project, but bytecode weaving seems like a 
>>>>>>> pretty heavy-duty solution to a simple problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The basic problem is, people (within JBoss and without) are going 
>>>>>>> to use the frameworks they're going to use.  How much effort is 
>>>>>>> it to adapt log2log (which has already run into some interesting 
>>>>>>> technical dilemmas) to another framework, versus just adding 
>>>>>>> another API facade?  It seems like the microcontainer arch would 
>>>>>>> be perfectly suited towards auto-wiring the appropriate logging API.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wouldn't it be nice if we could say, "deploy your app in 
>>>>>>> JBossAS/JBossMC and it will *just work*, regardless of what 
>>>>>>> logging frameworks are being used by what"?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - DML
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 05/02/2008 01:41 PM, Ales Justin wrote:
>>>>>>>> What about if we used this:
>>>>>>>> - https://svn.jboss.org/repos/log2log/trunk
>>>>>>>> with-in one of our deployers, and you could mark certain 
>>>>>>>> deployments as being 'dragged' through Log2Log to 'clean-up' 
>>>>>>>> logging?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Steve Ebersole wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I apologize for the tone in my last response.  The original 
>>>>>>>>> thread was frustrating enough, and here it is being relived.  I 
>>>>>>>>> let that frustration get to me when I should not have.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On May 2, 2008, at 12:12 PM, Steve Ebersole wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I cannot help that AS seems to think that every piece of 
>>>>>>>>>> technology needs to be complete re-written in house.  Y'all 
>>>>>>>>>> have you're own logging framework, great, add it to the other 
>>>>>>>>>> 50 out there.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The part that you are missing is that Hibernate is first and 
>>>>>>>>>> foremost a standalone library.  And in terms of integration, I 
>>>>>>>>>> have to consider integration with many containers.  I'm sure 
>>>>>>>>>> they all want jboss-logging as the 'yet another logging api' 
>>>>>>>>>> in their environments as well.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I used to use commons-logging which had a very specific 
>>>>>>>>>> problem that slf4j solves in a unique way *on any platform*...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you recall, I asked about experiences using jboss-logging 
>>>>>>>>>> in environments other than within JBoss AS and (in keeping 
>>>>>>>>>> with the general theme of that thread) got no replies to the 
>>>>>>>>>> question asked: 
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/jboss-development/2007-July/010398.html 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On May 2, 2008, at 11:30 AM, Scott Stark wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And we said sure, introduce yet another logging api?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Steve Ebersole wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I initiated that very discussion on this very list almost a 
>>>>>>>>>>>> year ago ;)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 2, 2008, at 11:15 AM, Paul Gier wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I upgraded this based on JBAS-5133 and Steve's request.  I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can switch it back to the old version if that's what is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> needed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scott Stark wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why was hibernate updated to 3.3.0 in jbossas trunk, and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why is this pulling in yet another logging framework? This 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs to be reverted, and why there has to be yet another 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logging framework dependency brought in explained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *** CONTEXTS IN ERROR: Name -> Error
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vfsfile:/media/disk/workspace/tck5/jboss-5.0.0.CR1/server/cts/tmp/jsr88/ejb3_annotations_entity_vehicles.ear 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -> java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: org/slf4j/LoggerFactory
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jboss-development mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jboss-development at lists.jboss.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-development
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve Ebersole
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Project Lead
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://hibernate.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> steve at hibernate.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> jboss-development mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> jboss-development at lists.jboss.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-development
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> jboss-development mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> Steve Ebersole
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Project Lead
>>>>>>>>>> http://hibernate.org
>>>>>>>>>> steve at hibernate.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Steve Ebersole
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Project Lead
>>>>>>>>> http://hibernate.org
>>>>>>>>> steve at hibernate.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> jboss-development mailing list
>>>>>>>>> jboss-development at lists.jboss.org
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-development
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>> -----------------------------
>>>> Steve Ebersole
>>>> Project Lead
>>>> http://hibernate.org
>>>> steve at hibernate.org
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> jboss-development mailing list
>>>> jboss-development at lists.jboss.org
>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-development
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> -----------------------------
>> Steve Ebersole
>>
>> Project Lead
>> http://hibernate.org
>> steve at hibernate.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
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-- 
Bill Burke
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
http://bill.burkecentral.com

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