If you want to know the size of a collection it has to be fetched. So using fetch-type eager is the best approach. Regards Felix View the original post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&p=4061157#4061157 Reply to the post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=posting&mode=reply&p=4061157