[jbpm-dev] Re- IOR gateway
Anurag Aggarwal
anurag at intalio.com
Sun Aug 14 03:22:58 EDT 2011
Hi Mauricio,
In case of OR we don't not know at design time how many incoming connections would be triggered before we propagate token. in example below - it can be only one or two or all three branches based on runtime data (we can not know the value of N)
So it is more of global search as mardo's links illustrate
Regards, Anurag
On Aug 14, 2011, at 1:15 AM, Mauricio Salatino wrote:
> Reading the specification, specially the Inclusive Merge section
> "The Inclusive Gateway synchronizes a certain subset of branches out of the set of concurrent incoming branches (merging behavior). "
> I reach some conclusions that are based on how jBPM5 is doing the handling of joins and forks:
> 1) For simple situations we can use the N to M approach. We can specify how many of the incoming sequence flow will trigger the propagation to the next node
> 2) For more complex scenarios where specifying the number of "tokens" that arrives is not enough we can use a complex converging gateway to define the logic that needs to be used to propagate the execution to the next node.
>
>
> I think that I can create an example using a both.. but I want to be sure that my conclusions fulfill your needs.
>
> Cheers
>
> On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 4:30 PM, Mauricio Salatino <salaboy at gmail.com> wrote:
> Great.. i will try to take a look on that and give you some estimations..
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Antoine Toulme <atoulme at intalio.com> wrote:
> I would recommend reading pages 292 and 436.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Antoine
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 9:14 AM, Mauricio Salatino <salaboy at gmail.com> wrote:
> Can you please point me in the spec (Pages) so I can review it and give you some feedback and estimations?
> I'm pretty sure that we can use a complex converging gateway to cover that features, but I would like to be sure that we are talking about the same thing.
> Cheers
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Antoine Toulme <atoulme at intalio.com> wrote:
> The BPMN spec contains the business requirements and the description of the functionality of this construct.
> Anurag also explained the functionality in this thread.
>
> The questions we have for the jBPM team are:
> -is this construct on the roadmap ? if yes, for which release ?
> -if yes, is there a way to track its development ?
> -Overall, what would the work consist and how hard is it to implement ?
>
> Please advise.
>
> Antoine
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Mauricio Salatino <salaboy at gmail.com> wrote:
> That's what I mention. it can be easy to implement most of the times but there are also some complex business use case that can complicate the generic approaches.
> Looking at a concrete use case will help a lot to understand what do you want to achieve.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 12:53 PM, mardo <mardo at abicola.de> wrote:
> Hi there,
>
>
>
> just some general remarks from my side:
>
>
>
> the semantics and implementation of the inclusive OR-join are far from trivial. See e.g. references below.
>
>
>
> http://domino.research.ibm.com/library/cyberdig.nsf/papers/331BE249A11C1B3F852577DE003B5477/$File/rz3791.pdf
>
> http://www.springerlink.com/content/97413825k6141332/
>
>
>
> However, I’d be interested in the concrete business requirement you have for modeling, since from my experience you can cover a very large part of regular requirements just using the “simple” gateways.
>
>
>
> Best
>
>
>
> Markus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: jbpm-dev-bounces at lists.jboss.org [mailto:jbpm-dev-bounces at lists.jboss.org] On Behalf Of Mauricio Salatino
> Sent: Freitag, 12. August 2011 14:21
> To: Anurag Aggarwal
> Cc: jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org
> Subject: Re: [jbpm-dev] Re- IOR gateway
>
>
>
> Hi Anurag,
>
> Based on your description I think that I'm understanding what do you want to do now.
>
> Right now the behaviors implemented in jBPM5 are XOR and AND.
>
> I think what you want to implement is N of M converging gateway, as it was in Drools Flow? Am I right?
>
> You want to wait 2 of the 3 branches that you have to propagate the execution?
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 5:47 AM, Anurag Aggarwal <anurag at intalio.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Mauricio,
>
>
>
> If an an AND converging gateway has n incoming branches, it expects that all incoming have been triggered and when it is so - it calls triggerCompleted (so that the rest of the process can continue)
>
>
>
> In case of OR converging, lets assume a process
>
>
>
> branch1
>
> / \
>
> OR (diverging) - branch 2 - OR (converging)
>
> \ /
>
> branch 3
>
>
>
> now any of branches may be triggered, OR converging has to wait for all branches that were actually triggered (say branch1 and branch 3). But the problem is it does not know which branches were triggered (for AND it was easier - just wait for all branches to be triggered). here in case of OR - we don't know to continue to wait for branch 2 or not
>
>
>
> Regards, Anurag
>
>
>
> On Aug 12, 2011, at 1:18 AM, Mauricio Salatino wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Hi Antoine,
>
> So do you want to implement and OR or and AND converging gateway, by the description it looks like and AND converging gateway. Is there any differences with the AND converging gateway that is currently implemented in jBPM5?
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Antoine Toulme <atoulme at intalio.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Mauricio, that's an OR converging gateway.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 12:42 AM, Mauricio Salatino <salaboy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi guys.. that's the AND Converging gateway right?
>
> The AND waits for all the branches that are converging before propagate.
>
> If that's not what you are looking for it should be very easy to implement.. and probably you can model that with the complex converge gateway.
>
>
>
> Cheers.
>
> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 4:33 PM, Antoine Toulme <atoulme at intalio.com> wrote:
>
> Broadcasting to list in case other committers have an insight ?
>
>
>
> Antoine
>
> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 12:39 PM, Anurag Aggarwal <anurag at intalio.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Kris,
>
> How are you
>
> Recently one of our requirements came up for converging IOR gateway, this is the gateway which according to bpmn specification syncs up on all upstream tokens and propagates token when no upstream token is left
>
> Currently jbpm does not support this construct, I was wondering if jbom has this in roadmap and if you can give some advice on difficulty and state of implementation
>
> Regards,
> Anurag
>
>
>
>
>
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> - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -
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> --
> - CTO @ http://www.plugtree.com
> - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.wordpress.com
> - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar
>
> - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -
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>
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>
> --
> - CTO @ http://www.plugtree.com
> - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.wordpress.com
>
> - Co-Founder @ http://www.jugargentina.org
> - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar
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> - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -
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> --
> - CTO @ http://www.plugtree.com
> - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.wordpress.com
> - Co-Founder @ http://www.jugargentina.org
> - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar
>
> - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -
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> _______________________________________________
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>
> --
> - CTO @ http://www.plugtree.com
> - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.wordpress.com
> - Co-Founder @ http://www.jugargentina.org
> - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar
>
> - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> - CTO @ http://www.plugtree.com
> - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.wordpress.com
> - Co-Founder @ http://www.jugargentina.org
> - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar
>
> - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -
>
>
>
>
> --
> - CTO @ http://www.plugtree.com
> - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.wordpress.com
> - Co-Founder @ http://www.jugargentina.org
> - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar
>
> - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -
>
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