[jbpm-dev] Re- IOR gateway

Mauricio Salatino salaboy at gmail.com
Mon Aug 15 21:03:02 EDT 2011


I was thinking for a different situation, instead of transversing the
process graph, insert all the nodes in the working memory, allowing us to
create rules to evaluates situations. I was thinking to do something similar
to the declarative agendas, where the activations are inserted. I think that
this feature will be extremely helpful and we can tackle down situations
like this one.
I will probably create a different thread for that.
Cheers

On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 9:53 PM, Kris Verlaenen <kverlaen at redhat.com> wrote:

> Antoine,
>
> While we would like to support all constructs as defined in the BPMN2
> specification, we currently do not support the OR gateway yet.  Since it
> is a rather advanced construct (especially if you start using it in
> combination with (unstructured) cycles), we in general recommend users
> to try and avoid this complexity by trying to remodel the business
> problem using a combination of (the much simpler) XOR and AND gateways.
> Therefore, the construct is not yet on any specific release.
>
> The best way if you want to track progress would be to create a JIRA
> issue I would say, that we will then use to report progress when
> implementing this feature.  It would also allow other users to vote for
> this issue to keep track of interest.
>
> The implementation would be an extension of the generic Join node (and
> JoinInstance), where the logic to decide when to continue would not only
> keep track of the "tokens" that already arrived (as is already done in
> the current implementation) but would also check for incoming branches
> that don't have a "token" yet whether there aren't any active node
> instances that could still reach this incoming branch.  In most cases
> this can be done by simply traversing the process graph.  But we could
> add support for complex cases, where the graph reachability analysis is
> done during process compilation (to avoid runtime overhead) and to
> support more complex cases (where for example the join instance would
> need to register as a listener to the process instance to make sure it
> is re-evaluated whenever necessary).
>
> Kris
>
> Antoine Toulme wrote:
> > The BPMN spec contains the business requirements and the description
> > of the functionality of this construct.
> > Anurag also explained the functionality in this thread.
> >
> > The questions we have for the jBPM team are:
> > -is this construct on the roadmap ? if yes, for which release ?
> > -if yes, is there a way to track its development ?
> > -Overall, what would the work consist and how hard is it to implement ?
> >
> > Please advise.
> >
> > Antoine
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Mauricio Salatino <salaboy at gmail.com
> > <mailto:salaboy at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     That's what I mention. it can be easy to implement most of the
> >     times but there are also some complex business use case that can
> >     complicate the generic approaches.
> >     Looking at a concrete use case will help a lot to understand what
> >     do you want to achieve.
> >
> >
> >     On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 12:53 PM, mardo <mardo at abicola.de
> >     <mailto:mardo at abicola.de>> wrote:
> >
> >         Hi there,
> >
> >
> >
> >         just some general remarks from my side:
> >
> >
> >
> >         the semantics and implementation of the inclusive OR-join are
> >         far from trivial. See e.g. references below.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> http://domino.research.ibm.com/library/cyberdig.nsf/papers/331BE249A11C1B3F852577DE003B5477/$File/rz3791.pdf
> >
> >         http://www.springerlink.com/content/97413825k6141332/
> >
> >
> >
> >         However, I’d be interested in the concrete business
> >         requirement you have for modeling, since from my experience
> >         you can cover a very large part of regular requirements just
> >         using the “simple” gateways.
> >
> >
> >
> >         Best
> >
> >
> >
> >         Markus
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >         *From:* jbpm-dev-bounces at lists.jboss.org
> >         <mailto:jbpm-dev-bounces at lists.jboss.org>
> >         [mailto:jbpm-dev-bounces at lists.jboss.org
> >         <mailto:jbpm-dev-bounces at lists.jboss.org>] *On Behalf Of
> >         *Mauricio Salatino
> >         *Sent:* Freitag, 12. August 2011 14:21
> >         *To:* Anurag Aggarwal
> >         *Cc:* jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org <mailto:jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org>
> >         *Subject:* Re: [jbpm-dev] Re- IOR gateway
> >
> >
> >
> >         Hi Anurag,
> >
> >         Based on your description I think that I'm understanding what
> >         do you want to do now.
> >
> >         Right now the behaviors implemented in jBPM5 are XOR and AND.
> >
> >         I think what you want to implement is N of M converging
> >         gateway, as it was in Drools Flow? Am I right?
> >
> >         You want to wait 2 of the 3 branches that you have to
> >         propagate the execution?
> >
> >
> >
> >         Cheers
> >
> >         On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 5:47 AM, Anurag Aggarwal
> >         <anurag at intalio.com <mailto:anurag at intalio.com>> wrote:
> >
> >         Hi Mauricio,
> >
> >
> >
> >         If an an AND converging gateway has n incoming branches, it
> >         expects that all incoming have been triggered and when it is
> >         so - it calls triggerCompleted (so that the rest of the
> >         process can continue)
> >
> >
> >
> >         In case of OR converging, lets assume a process
> >
> >
> >
> >                                 branch1
> >
> >                              /               \
> >
> >         OR (diverging) - branch 2 -  OR (converging)
> >
> >                              \               /
> >
> >                                branch 3
> >
> >
> >
> >         now any of branches may be triggered, OR converging has to
> >         wait for all branches that were actually triggered (say
> >         branch1 and branch 3). But the problem is it does not know
> >         which branches were triggered (for AND it was easier - just
> >         wait for all branches to be triggered). here in case of OR -
> >         we don't know to continue to wait for branch 2 or not
> >
> >
> >
> >         Regards, Anurag
> >
> >
> >
> >         On Aug 12, 2011, at 1:18 AM, Mauricio Salatino wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >         Hi Antoine,
> >
> >         So do you want to implement and OR or and AND converging
> >         gateway, by the description it looks like and AND converging
> >         gateway. Is there any differences with the AND converging
> >         gateway that is currently implemented in jBPM5?
> >
> >
> >
> >         Cheers
> >
> >         On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Antoine Toulme
> >         <atoulme at intalio.com <mailto:atoulme at intalio.com>> wrote:
> >
> >         Hi Mauricio, that's an OR converging gateway.
> >
> >
> >
> >         On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 12:42 AM, Mauricio Salatino
> >         <salaboy at gmail.com <mailto:salaboy at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >         Hi guys.. that's the AND Converging gateway right?
> >
> >         The AND waits for all the branches that are converging before
> >         propagate.
> >
> >         If that's not what you are looking for it should be very easy
> >         to implement.. and probably you can model that with the
> >         complex converge gateway.
> >
> >
> >
> >         Cheers.
> >
> >         On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 4:33 PM, Antoine Toulme
> >         <atoulme at intalio.com <mailto:atoulme at intalio.com>> wrote:
> >
> >             Broadcasting to list in case other committers have an
> >             insight ?
> >
> >
> >
> >             Antoine
> >
> >             On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 12:39 PM, Anurag Aggarwal
> >             <anurag at intalio.com <mailto:anurag at intalio.com>> wrote:
> >
> >             Hi Kris,
> >
> >             How are you
> >
> >             Recently one of our requirements came up for converging
> >             IOR gateway, this is the gateway which according to bpmn
> >             specification syncs up on all upstream tokens and
> >             propagates token when no upstream token is left
> >
> >             Currently jbpm does not support this construct, I was
> >             wondering if jbom has this in roadmap and if you can give
> >             some advice on difficulty and state  of implementation
> >
> >             Regards,
> >             Anurag
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >             _______________________________________________
> >             jbpm-dev mailing list
> >             jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org <mailto:jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org>
> >             https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >         --
> >          - CTO @ http://www.plugtree.com <http://www.plugtree.com/>
> >          - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.wordpress.com
> >         <http://salaboy.wordpress.com/>
> >          - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar <http://www.jbug.com.ar/>
> >
> >          - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >         --
> >          - CTO @ http://www.plugtree.com <http://www.plugtree.com/>
> >          - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.wordpress.com
> >         <http://salaboy.wordpress.com/>
> >          - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar <http://www.jbug.com.ar/>
> >
> >          - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >         --
> >          - CTO @ http://www.plugtree.com
> >          - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.wordpress.com
> >
> >         - Co-Founder @ http://www.jugargentina.org
> >          - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar
> >
> >          - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >         _______________________________________________
> >         jbpm-dev mailing list
> >         jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org <mailto:jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org>
> >         https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >     --
> >      - CTO @ http://www.plugtree.com
> >      - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.wordpress.com
> >     - Co-Founder @ http://www.jugargentina.org
> >      - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar
> >
> >      - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -
> >
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     jbpm-dev mailing list
> >     jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org <mailto:jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org>
> >     https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev
> >
> >
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> >
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-- 
 - CTO @ http://www.plugtree.com
 - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.wordpress.com
- Co-Founder @ http://www.jugargentina.org
 - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar

 - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -
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