[jbpm-dev] Re- IOR gateway
Antoine Toulme
atoulme at intalio.com
Mon Aug 15 21:19:02 EDT 2011
Kris, how hard would it be to implement this ?
On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 5:53 PM, Kris Verlaenen <kverlaen at redhat.com> wrote:
> Antoine,
>
> While we would like to support all constructs as defined in the BPMN2
> specification, we currently do not support the OR gateway yet. Since it is
> a rather advanced construct (especially if you start using it in combination
> with (unstructured) cycles), we in general recommend users to try and avoid
> this complexity by trying to remodel the business problem using a
> combination of (the much simpler) XOR and AND gateways. Therefore, the
> construct is not yet on any specific release.
>
> The best way if you want to track progress would be to create a JIRA issue
> I would say, that we will then use to report progress when implementing this
> feature. It would also allow other users to vote for this issue to keep
> track of interest.
>
> The implementation would be an extension of the generic Join node (and
> JoinInstance), where the logic to decide when to continue would not only
> keep track of the "tokens" that already arrived (as is already done in the
> current implementation) but would also check for incoming branches that
> don't have a "token" yet whether there aren't any active node instances that
> could still reach this incoming branch. In most cases this can be done by
> simply traversing the process graph. But we could add support for complex
> cases, where the graph reachability analysis is done during process
> compilation (to avoid runtime overhead) and to support more complex cases
> (where for example the join instance would need to register as a listener to
> the process instance to make sure it is re-evaluated whenever necessary).
>
> Kris
>
> Antoine Toulme wrote:
>
>> The BPMN spec contains the business requirements and the description of
>> the functionality of this construct.
>> Anurag also explained the functionality in this thread.
>>
>> The questions we have for the jBPM team are:
>> -is this construct on the roadmap ? if yes, for which release ?
>> -if yes, is there a way to track its development ?
>> -Overall, what would the work consist and how hard is it to implement ?
>>
>> Please advise.
>>
>> Antoine
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Mauricio Salatino <salaboy at gmail.com<mailto:
>> salaboy at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> That's what I mention. it can be easy to implement most of the
>> times but there are also some complex business use case that can
>> complicate the generic approaches.
>> Looking at a concrete use case will help a lot to understand what
>> do you want to achieve.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 12:53 PM, mardo <mardo at abicola.de
>> <mailto:mardo at abicola.de>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi there,
>>
>>
>> just some general remarks from my side:
>>
>>
>> the semantics and implementation of the inclusive OR-join are
>> far from trivial. See e.g. references below.
>>
>>
>> http://domino.research.ibm.**com/library/cyberdig.nsf/**papers/**
>> 331BE249A11C1B3F852577DE003B54**77/$File/rz3791.pdf<http://domino.research.ibm.com/library/cyberdig.nsf/papers/331BE249A11C1B3F852577DE003B5477/$File/rz3791.pdf>
>>
>> http://www.springerlink.com/**content/97413825k6141332/<http://www.springerlink.com/content/97413825k6141332/>
>>
>>
>> However, I’d be interested in the concrete business
>> requirement you have for modeling, since from my experience
>> you can cover a very large part of regular requirements just
>> using the “simple” gateways.
>>
>>
>> Best
>>
>>
>> Markus
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* jbpm-dev-bounces at lists.jboss.**org<jbpm-dev-bounces at lists.jboss.org>
>> <mailto:jbpm-dev-bounces@**lists.jboss.org<jbpm-dev-bounces at lists.jboss.org>
>> >
>> [mailto:jbpm-dev-bounces@**lists.jboss.org<jbpm-dev-bounces at lists.jboss.org>
>> <mailto:jbpm-dev-bounces@**lists.jboss.org<jbpm-dev-bounces at lists.jboss.org>>]
>> *On Behalf Of
>> *Mauricio Salatino
>> *Sent:* Freitag, 12. August 2011 14:21
>> *To:* Anurag Aggarwal
>> *Cc:* jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org <mailto:jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.**org<jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org>
>> >
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [jbpm-dev] Re- IOR gateway
>>
>>
>> Hi Anurag,
>>
>> Based on your description I think that I'm understanding what
>> do you want to do now.
>> Right now the behaviors implemented in jBPM5 are XOR and AND.
>> I think what you want to implement is N of M converging
>> gateway, as it was in Drools Flow? Am I right?
>>
>> You want to wait 2 of the 3 branches that you have to
>> propagate the execution?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 5:47 AM, Anurag Aggarwal
>> <anurag at intalio.com <mailto:anurag at intalio.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Mauricio,
>>
>>
>> If an an AND converging gateway has n incoming branches, it
>> expects that all incoming have been triggered and when it is
>> so - it calls triggerCompleted (so that the rest of the
>> process can continue)
>>
>>
>> In case of OR converging, lets assume a process
>>
>>
>> branch1
>> / \
>>
>> OR (diverging) - branch 2 - OR (converging)
>>
>> \ /
>>
>> branch 3
>>
>>
>> now any of branches may be triggered, OR converging has to
>> wait for all branches that were actually triggered (say
>> branch1 and branch 3). But the problem is it does not know
>> which branches were triggered (for AND it was easier - just
>> wait for all branches to be triggered). here in case of OR -
>> we don't know to continue to wait for branch 2 or not
>>
>>
>> Regards, Anurag
>>
>>
>> On Aug 12, 2011, at 1:18 AM, Mauricio Salatino wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Antoine,
>>
>> So do you want to implement and OR or and AND converging
>> gateway, by the description it looks like and AND converging
>> gateway. Is there any differences with the AND converging
>> gateway that is currently implemented in jBPM5?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Antoine Toulme
>> <atoulme at intalio.com <mailto:atoulme at intalio.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Mauricio, that's an OR converging gateway.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 12:42 AM, Mauricio Salatino
>> <salaboy at gmail.com <mailto:salaboy at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys.. that's the AND Converging gateway right?
>>
>> The AND waits for all the branches that are converging before
>> propagate.
>>
>> If that's not what you are looking for it should be very easy
>> to implement.. and probably you can model that with the
>> complex converge gateway.
>>
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 4:33 PM, Antoine Toulme
>> <atoulme at intalio.com <mailto:atoulme at intalio.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Broadcasting to list in case other committers have an
>> insight ?
>>
>>
>> Antoine
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 12:39 PM, Anurag Aggarwal
>> <anurag at intalio.com <mailto:anurag at intalio.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Kris,
>>
>> How are you
>>
>> Recently one of our requirements came up for converging
>> IOR gateway, this is the gateway which according to bpmn
>> specification syncs up on all upstream tokens and
>> propagates token when no upstream token is left
>>
>> Currently jbpm does not support this construct, I was
>> wondering if jbom has this in roadmap and if you can give
>> some advice on difficulty and state of implementation
>>
>> Regards,
>> Anurag
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> -- - CTO @ http://www.plugtree.com <
>> http://www.plugtree.com/> - MyJourney @
>> http://salaboy.wordpress.com
>> <http://salaboy.wordpress.com/**>
>> - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar <http://www.jbug.com.ar/>
>> - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- - CTO @ http://www.plugtree.com <
>> http://www.plugtree.com/> - MyJourney @
>> http://salaboy.wordpress.com
>> <http://salaboy.wordpress.com/**>
>> - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar <http://www.jbug.com.ar/>
>>
>> - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- - CTO @ http://www.plugtree.com - MyJourney @
>> http://salaboy.wordpress.com
>>
>> - Co-Founder @ http://www.jugargentina.org
>> - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar
>> - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- - CTO @ http://www.plugtree.com - MyJourney @
>> http://salaboy.wordpress.com
>> - Co-Founder @ http://www.jugargentina.org
>> - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar
>> - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -
>>
>>
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