From sorrol at 163.com  Thu Dec 12 00:49:57 2013
From: sorrol at 163.com (sorrol at 163.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 13:49:57 +0800
Subject: [jbpm-dev] About the Web Component source
Message-ID: <2013121213495755013733@163.com>

Hi,
Now I want to get the six Web components of JBPM 5.4 in lib . For example:
jbpm-gwt-console-server-5.4.0.Final-EE6.war;
jbpm-designer-2.4.0.Final-jboss7.war 

I can't open http://github.com/droolsjbpm.  where to get It. please help me. thx
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From salaboy at gmail.com  Thu Dec 12 09:38:30 2013
From: salaboy at gmail.com (Mauricio Salatino)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 15:38:30 +0100
Subject: [jbpm-dev] About the Web Component source
In-Reply-To: <2013121213495755013733@163.com>
References: <2013121213495755013733@163.com>
Message-ID: <CANzbnyVChs_hWrVvn7Uit9VjBp8AH1oM7RUdm4w=poJaobB-vw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, notice that we have re written all the web components for the 6
version.
The old jbpm console can be found here: https://github.com/bpmc/bpm-console

Hope it helps


On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 6:49 AM, sorrol at 163.com <sorrol at 163.com> wrote:

>  Hi,
> Now I want to get the six Web components of JBPM 5.4 in lib . For example:
> jbpm-gwt-console-server-5.4.0.Final-EE6.war;
> jbpm-designer-2.4.0.Final-jboss7.war
>
> I can't open http://github.com/droolsjbpm.  where to get It. please help
> me. thx
>
> _______________________________________________
> jbpm-dev mailing list
> jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev
>



-- 
 - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.com <http://salaboy.wordpress.com>
 - Co-Founder @ http://www.jugargentina.org
 - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar

 - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -
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From jshooab at gmail.com  Fri Dec 13 15:38:24 2013
From: jshooab at gmail.com (John Shooab)
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 17:38:24 -0300
Subject: [jbpm-dev] jbpm 6 released ?
Message-ID: <52AB7040.3050000@gmail.com>

Hello,

I am in charge to investigate new JBPM and Drools 6 status.

I should say that I'm kind confuse.

Looking at maven central, already have 6.0.0.Final artifacts: 
http://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Corg.jbpm%7Cjbpm%7C6.0.0.Final%7Cpom 


But looking at http://www.jboss.org/jbpm/ there are any reference to 6.0.0 !


looking at jira here (https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBPM) I could see 
the 6.0.0.Final was release, but there are 3 different versions:jBPM 
6.1.0.Final, jBPM 6.0.1.Final and jBPM 6.x !!!

could someone explain me that ?

which version should I track in jira? which source branch is the one 
that I should clone if I need to see the examples?

thanks,

John.
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From porcelli at redhat.com  Sat Dec 14 07:33:54 2013
From: porcelli at redhat.com (Alexandre Porcelli)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 10:33:54 -0200
Subject: [jbpm-dev] jbpm 6 released ?
In-Reply-To: <52AB7040.3050000@gmail.com>
References: <52AB7040.3050000@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6F87326C-073C-4EDD-8B4E-0926D4388AEC@redhat.com>

Binaries were released, but we're still working on communication (new web site, new tutorials, videos, etc...)

But if you check http://www.jboss.org/jbpm Documentation or Downloads sections there are references to new release.


Regards,
--- 
Alexandre Porcelli
Principal Software Engineer 
Red Hat Business Systems and Intelligence Group


On Dec 13, 2013, at 6:38 PM, John Shooab <jshooab at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I am in charge to investigate new JBPM and Drools 6 status.
> 
> I should say that I'm kind confuse. 
> 
> Looking at maven central, already have 6.0.0.Final artifacts: http://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Corg.jbpm%7Cjbpm%7C6.0.0.Final%7Cpom 
> 
> But looking at http://www.jboss.org/jbpm/ there are any reference to 6.0.0 !
> 
> 
> looking at jira here (https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBPM) I could see the 6.0.0.Final was release, but there are 3 different versions:jBPM 6.1.0.Final, jBPM 6.0.1.Final and jBPM 6.x !!!
> 
> could someone explain me that ?  
> 
> which version should I track in jira? which source branch is the one that I should clone if I need to see the examples?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> John.
> _______________________________________________
> jbpm-dev mailing list
> jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev




From ramiro.p.magalhaes at gmail.com  Sat Dec 14 07:40:27 2013
From: ramiro.p.magalhaes at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ramiro_Pereira_de_Magalh=E3es?=)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 10:40:27 -0200
Subject: [jbpm-dev] jbpm 6 released ?
In-Reply-To: <6F87326C-073C-4EDD-8B4E-0926D4388AEC@redhat.com>
References: <52AB7040.3050000@gmail.com>
	<6F87326C-073C-4EDD-8B4E-0926D4388AEC@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <CAF4pvCctAK9rFZTmjDzHUXp-Di-PwTVYTeBqFUJ+DFv4xd84zg@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for your clarifications. I was a little confused about that too.


2013/12/14 Alexandre Porcelli <porcelli at redhat.com>

> Binaries were released, but we're still working on communication (new web
> site, new tutorials, videos, etc...)
>
> But if you check http://www.jboss.org/jbpm Documentation or Downloads
> sections there are references to new release.
>
>
> Regards,
> ---
> Alexandre Porcelli
> Principal Software Engineer
> Red Hat Business Systems and Intelligence Group
>
>
> On Dec 13, 2013, at 6:38 PM, John Shooab <jshooab at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am in charge to investigate new JBPM and Drools 6 status.
> >
> > I should say that I'm kind confuse.
> >
> > Looking at maven central, already have 6.0.0.Final artifacts:
> http://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Corg.jbpm%7Cjbpm%7C6.0.0.Final%7Cpom
> >
> > But looking at http://www.jboss.org/jbpm/ there are any reference to
> 6.0.0 !
> >
> >
> > looking at jira here (https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBPM) I could see
> the 6.0.0.Final was release, but there are 3 different versions:jBPM
> 6.1.0.Final, jBPM 6.0.1.Final and jBPM 6.x !!!
> >
> > could someone explain me that ?
> >
> > which version should I track in jira? which source branch is the one
> that I should clone if I need to see the examples?
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > John.
> > _______________________________________________
> > jbpm-dev mailing list
> > jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> jbpm-dev mailing list
> jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev
>
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From jshooab at gmail.com  Mon Dec 16 07:15:16 2013
From: jshooab at gmail.com (John Shooab)
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 09:15:16 -0300
Subject: [jbpm-dev] jbpm 6 released ?
In-Reply-To: <6F87326C-073C-4EDD-8B4E-0926D4388AEC@redhat.com>
References: <52AB7040.3050000@gmail.com>
	<6F87326C-073C-4EDD-8B4E-0926D4388AEC@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <52AEEED4.7000008@gmail.com>

Hi Alexandre,

looking the number of issues since 6.0.0.Final at Jira, for us seems 
that the release of Drools and Jbpm 6.0.0.Final.
was a kind precipitated...

We decided to postpone our prototype with 6.0.x for while...

thanks anyway,

John

On 14/12/13 09:33, Alexandre Porcelli wrote:
> Binaries were released, but we're still working on communication (new web site, new tutorials, videos, etc...)
>
> But if you check http://www.jboss.org/jbpm Documentation or Downloads sections there are references to new release.
>
>
> Regards,
> ---
> Alexandre Porcelli
> Principal Software Engineer
> Red Hat Business Systems and Intelligence Group
>
>
> On Dec 13, 2013, at 6:38 PM, John Shooab <jshooab at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am in charge to investigate new JBPM and Drools 6 status.
>>
>> I should say that I'm kind confuse.
>>
>> Looking at maven central, already have 6.0.0.Final artifacts: http://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Corg.jbpm%7Cjbpm%7C6.0.0.Final%7Cpom
>>
>> But looking at http://www.jboss.org/jbpm/ there are any reference to 6.0.0 !
>>
>>
>> looking at jira here (https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBPM) I could see the 6.0.0.Final was release, but there are 3 different versions:jBPM 6.1.0.Final, jBPM 6.0.1.Final and jBPM 6.x !!!
>>
>> could someone explain me that ?
>>
>> which version should I track in jira? which source branch is the one that I should clone if I need to see the examples?
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> John.
>> _______________________________________________
>> jbpm-dev mailing list
>> jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev
>


From salaboy at gmail.com  Mon Dec 16 07:22:18 2013
From: salaboy at gmail.com (Mauricio Salatino)
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 13:22:18 +0100
Subject: [jbpm-dev] jbpm 6 released ?
In-Reply-To: <52AEEED4.7000008@gmail.com>
References: <52AB7040.3050000@gmail.com>
	<6F87326C-073C-4EDD-8B4E-0926D4388AEC@redhat.com>
	<52AEEED4.7000008@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANzbnyXSQoL=GLYvCOtDDCSV5aBa43i65aJn0KGQh3hpkNa2Vg@mail.gmail.com>

HI John,
If you can highlight which issues that you see there are important to you
please let us know. We are still cleaning Jira for the last release so some
of them are already fixed or not relevant.
Cheers


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 1:15 PM, John Shooab <jshooab at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Alexandre,
>
> looking the number of issues since 6.0.0.Final at Jira, for us seems
> that the release of Drools and Jbpm 6.0.0.Final.
> was a kind precipitated...
>
> We decided to postpone our prototype with 6.0.x for while...
>
> thanks anyway,
>
> John
>
> On 14/12/13 09:33, Alexandre Porcelli wrote:
> > Binaries were released, but we're still working on communication (new
> web site, new tutorials, videos, etc...)
> >
> > But if you check http://www.jboss.org/jbpm Documentation or Downloads
> sections there are references to new release.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > ---
> > Alexandre Porcelli
> > Principal Software Engineer
> > Red Hat Business Systems and Intelligence Group
> >
> >
> > On Dec 13, 2013, at 6:38 PM, John Shooab <jshooab at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> I am in charge to investigate new JBPM and Drools 6 status.
> >>
> >> I should say that I'm kind confuse.
> >>
> >> Looking at maven central, already have 6.0.0.Final artifacts:
> http://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Corg.jbpm%7Cjbpm%7C6.0.0.Final%7Cpom
> >>
> >> But looking at http://www.jboss.org/jbpm/ there are any reference to
> 6.0.0 !
> >>
> >>
> >> looking at jira here (https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBPM) I could
> see the 6.0.0.Final was release, but there are 3 different versions:jBPM
> 6.1.0.Final, jBPM 6.0.1.Final and jBPM 6.x !!!
> >>
> >> could someone explain me that ?
> >>
> >> which version should I track in jira? which source branch is the one
> that I should clone if I need to see the examples?
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >>
> >> John.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> jbpm-dev mailing list
> >> jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org
> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> jbpm-dev mailing list
> jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev
>



-- 
 - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.com <http://salaboy.wordpress.com>
 - Co-Founder @ http://www.jugargentina.org
 - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar

 - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -
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From jshooab at gmail.com  Mon Dec 16 08:10:46 2013
From: jshooab at gmail.com (John Shooab)
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 10:10:46 -0300
Subject: [jbpm-dev] jbpm 6 released ?
In-Reply-To: <CANzbnyXSQoL=GLYvCOtDDCSV5aBa43i65aJn0KGQh3hpkNa2Vg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52AB7040.3050000@gmail.com>
	<6F87326C-073C-4EDD-8B4E-0926D4388AEC@redhat.com>
	<52AEEED4.7000008@gmail.com>
	<CANzbnyXSQoL=GLYvCOtDDCSV5aBa43i65aJn0KGQh3hpkNa2Vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52AEFBD6.3040505@gmail.com>

Hi Mauricio,

I could see that many issues were resolved in Drools and JBPM Jira, that 
is really good.

The system environment where we plan to use JBPM is Equinox. So, what 
concerned we most are the issues that wasn't raised yet related running 
6.x into OSGi.

In one entire day one of my team members wasn't able to make it run. I 
can't specify the problems right now because he got out for vacation 
without pass me the report file. But seems that it was related to 
classloading issues...

I asked to someone to repeat his procedure this week again and we will 
raise the issues, if necessary...

regards,

John

On 16/12/13 09:22, Mauricio Salatino wrote:
> HI John,
> If you can highlight which issues that you see there are important to 
> you please let us know. We are still cleaning Jira for the last 
> release so some of them are already fixed or not relevant.
> Cheers
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 1:15 PM, John Shooab <jshooab at gmail.com 
> <mailto:jshooab at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hi Alexandre,
>
>     looking the number of issues since 6.0.0.Final at Jira, for us seems
>     that the release of Drools and Jbpm 6.0.0.Final.
>     was a kind precipitated...
>
>     We decided to postpone our prototype with 6.0.x for while...
>
>     thanks anyway,
>
>     John
>
>     On 14/12/13 09:33, Alexandre Porcelli wrote:
>     > Binaries were released, but we're still working on communication
>     (new web site, new tutorials, videos, etc...)
>     >
>     > But if you check http://www.jboss.org/jbpm Documentation or
>     Downloads sections there are references to new release.
>     >
>     >
>     > Regards,
>     > ---
>     > Alexandre Porcelli
>     > Principal Software Engineer
>     > Red Hat Business Systems and Intelligence Group
>     >
>     >
>     > On Dec 13, 2013, at 6:38 PM, John Shooab <jshooab at gmail.com
>     <mailto:jshooab at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     >
>     >> Hello,
>     >>
>     >> I am in charge to investigate new JBPM and Drools 6 status.
>     >>
>     >> I should say that I'm kind confuse.
>     >>
>     >> Looking at maven central, already have 6.0.0.Final artifacts:
>     http://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Corg.jbpm%7Cjbpm%7C6.0.0.Final%7Cpom
>     >>
>     >> But looking at http://www.jboss.org/jbpm/ there are any
>     reference to 6.0.0 !
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> looking at jira here (https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBPM) I
>     could see the 6.0.0.Final was release, but there are 3 different
>     versions:jBPM 6.1.0.Final, jBPM 6.0.1.Final and jBPM 6.x !!!
>     >>
>     >> could someone explain me that ?
>     >>
>     >> which version should I track in jira? which source branch is
>     the one that I should clone if I need to see the examples?
>     >>
>     >> thanks,
>     >>
>     >> John.
>     >> _______________________________________________
>     >> jbpm-dev mailing list
>     >> jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org <mailto:jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org>
>     >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev
>     >
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     jbpm-dev mailing list
>     jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org <mailto:jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org>
>     https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev
>
>
>
>
> -- 
>  - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.com <http://salaboy.wordpress.com>
>  - Co-Founder @ http://www.jugargentina.org
>  - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar
>
>  - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -

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From salaboy at gmail.com  Mon Dec 16 08:12:13 2013
From: salaboy at gmail.com (Mauricio Salatino)
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 14:12:13 +0100
Subject: [jbpm-dev] jbpm 6 released ?
In-Reply-To: <52AEFBD6.3040505@gmail.com>
References: <52AB7040.3050000@gmail.com>
	<6F87326C-073C-4EDD-8B4E-0926D4388AEC@redhat.com>
	<52AEEED4.7000008@gmail.com>
	<CANzbnyXSQoL=GLYvCOtDDCSV5aBa43i65aJn0KGQh3hpkNa2Vg@mail.gmail.com>
	<52AEFBD6.3040505@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANzbnyUaA6eoS+XFnbf9F+wTW1fh6eAJm9foMKPxiy2kjyKXtw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi John,
That will be great!


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:10 PM, John Shooab <jshooab at gmail.com> wrote:

>  Hi Mauricio,
>
> I could see that many issues were resolved in Drools and JBPM Jira, that
> is really good.
>
> The system environment where we plan to use JBPM is Equinox. So, what
> concerned we most are the issues that wasn't raised yet related running 6.x
> into OSGi.
>
> In one entire day one of my team members wasn't able to make it run. I
> can't specify the problems right now because he got out for vacation
> without pass me the report file. But seems that it was related to
> classloading issues...
>
> I asked to someone to repeat his procedure this week again and we will
> raise the issues, if necessary...
>
> regards,
>
> John
>
>
> On 16/12/13 09:22, Mauricio Salatino wrote:
>
> HI John,
> If you can highlight which issues that you see there are important to you
> please let us know. We are still cleaning Jira for the last release so some
> of them are already fixed or not relevant.
> Cheers
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 1:15 PM, John Shooab <jshooab at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Alexandre,
>>
>> looking the number of issues since 6.0.0.Final at Jira, for us seems
>> that the release of Drools and Jbpm 6.0.0.Final.
>> was a kind precipitated...
>>
>> We decided to postpone our prototype with 6.0.x for while...
>>
>> thanks anyway,
>>
>> John
>>
>> On 14/12/13 09:33, Alexandre Porcelli wrote:
>> > Binaries were released, but we're still working on communication (new
>> web site, new tutorials, videos, etc...)
>> >
>> > But if you check http://www.jboss.org/jbpm Documentation or Downloads
>> sections there are references to new release.
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > ---
>> > Alexandre Porcelli
>> > Principal Software Engineer
>> > Red Hat Business Systems and Intelligence Group
>> >
>> >
>> > On Dec 13, 2013, at 6:38 PM, John Shooab <jshooab at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hello,
>> >>
>> >> I am in charge to investigate new JBPM and Drools 6 status.
>> >>
>> >> I should say that I'm kind confuse.
>> >>
>> >> Looking at maven central, already have 6.0.0.Final artifacts:
>> http://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Corg.jbpm%7Cjbpm%7C6.0.0.Final%7Cpom
>> >>
>> >> But looking at http://www.jboss.org/jbpm/ there are any reference to
>> 6.0.0 !
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> looking at jira here (https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBPM) I could
>> see the 6.0.0.Final was release, but there are 3 different versions:jBPM
>> 6.1.0.Final, jBPM 6.0.1.Final and jBPM 6.x !!!
>> >>
>> >> could someone explain me that ?
>> >>
>> >> which version should I track in jira? which source branch is the one
>> that I should clone if I need to see the examples?
>> >>
>> >> thanks,
>> >>
>> >> John.
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> jbpm-dev mailing list
>> >> jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> jbpm-dev mailing list
>> jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev
>>
>
>
>
>  --
>  - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.com <http://salaboy.wordpress.com>
>  - Co-Founder @ http://www.jugargentina.org
>  - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar
>
>  - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> jbpm-dev mailing list
> jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev
>



-- 
 - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.com <http://salaboy.wordpress.com>
 - Co-Founder @ http://www.jugargentina.org
 - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar

 - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -
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From cvgaviao at gmail.com  Mon Dec 16 10:31:37 2013
From: cvgaviao at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Cristiano_Gavi=E3o?=)
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 12:31:37 -0300
Subject: [jbpm-dev] jbpm 6 released ?
In-Reply-To: <52AEFBD6.3040505@gmail.com>
References: <52AB7040.3050000@gmail.com>
	<6F87326C-073C-4EDD-8B4E-0926D4388AEC@redhat.com>
	<52AEEED4.7000008@gmail.com>
	<CANzbnyXSQoL=GLYvCOtDDCSV5aBa43i65aJn0KGQh3hpkNa2Vg@mail.gmail.com>
	<52AEFBD6.3040505@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52AF1CD9.8090606@gmail.com>

John,

I've passed sometime evaluating 6.x for equinox some months ago. We end 
up given up to use it in current project because we found lot of these 
classloading issues in that time. almost all examples failed to run as 
is...

I heard that some guys could setup JBPM fine (just a couple of smoke 
tests was done, actually) using blueprint. but as I think blueprint is 
too much heavy for my needs (I use DS instead) I didn't take a look, yet...

Just to anticipate your team, the major problem that identified was the 
Factory architecture being used by Drools, Kie and etc. They was planned 
to work with java SE *flat* classpaths... in they world, developer just 
need to put the needed jar in a place where java could find it... but we 
know that is not the reality in the OSGi world.

Take a look on this KieServices class [1]. that is one of the most used 
class that I could see in the examples provided by drools.

Observe that this class exists in bundle Kie-API and in the line 165 
will try to instantiate another class that exists in the " 
org.drools.compiler" bundle and worst, using Class.forName().
You will find sentences like this everywhere in source code... And you 
won't see any integration tests for each of them...

As you could note, this breaks OSGi modular concept, and could be the 
origin of the classloading issues your team are facing...

I heard that some people could "bypass" those errors patching the 
manifest generation for :
A)  to add an import package from the Implementation bundle inside the 
API bundle ! :(  that is crap
B)  or to add a Dynamic Import-Package [2].

I had negative experiences with Dynamic Import-Package when I tried to 
use Hibernate in OSGi many year ago (too many issues that we lost 
confidence and moved to gemini + eclipselink). So, I'm in skeptical with 
its use in Drools/JBPM 6, too.

One solution would be the use of JDK's ServiceLoader api [3] and the SPI 
spec in osgi side, but I have doubts that the team would buy for this 
route... :)

anyway, good luck and let us know about your team experiments.


[1] - 
https://github.com/droolsjbpm/droolsjbpm-knowledge/blob/master/kie-api/src/main/java/org/kie/api/KieServices.java#L165 

[2] - 
http://keheliya.blogspot.com.br/2013/02/use-of-dynamicimport-package-in-osgi.html
[3] - 
http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/ext/basics/spi.html#the-serviceloader-class)

best regards,

Cristiano

On 16/12/13 10:10, John Shooab wrote:
> Hi Mauricio,
>
> I could see that many issues were resolved in Drools and JBPM Jira, 
> that is really good.
>
> The system environment where we plan to use JBPM is Equinox. So, what 
> concerned we most are the issues that wasn't raised yet related 
> running 6.x into OSGi.
>
> In one entire day one of my team members wasn't able to make it run. I 
> can't specify the problems right now because he got out for vacation 
> without pass me the report file. But seems that it was related to 
> classloading issues...
>
> I asked to someone to repeat his procedure this week again and we will 
> raise the issues, if necessary...
>
> regards,
>
> John
>
> On 16/12/13 09:22, Mauricio Salatino wrote:
>> HI John,
>> If you can highlight which issues that you see there are important to 
>> you please let us know. We are still cleaning Jira for the last 
>> release so some of them are already fixed or not relevant.
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 1:15 PM, John Shooab <jshooab at gmail.com 
>> <mailto:jshooab at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hi Alexandre,
>>
>>     looking the number of issues since 6.0.0.Final at Jira, for us seems
>>     that the release of Drools and Jbpm 6.0.0.Final.
>>     was a kind precipitated...
>>
>>     We decided to postpone our prototype with 6.0.x for while...
>>
>>     thanks anyway,
>>
>>     John
>>
>>     On 14/12/13 09:33, Alexandre Porcelli wrote:
>>     > Binaries were released, but we're still working on
>>     communication (new web site, new tutorials, videos, etc...)
>>     >
>>     > But if you check http://www.jboss.org/jbpm Documentation or
>>     Downloads sections there are references to new release.
>>     >
>>     >
>>     > Regards,
>>     > ---
>>     > Alexandre Porcelli
>>     > Principal Software Engineer
>>     > Red Hat Business Systems and Intelligence Group
>>     >
>>     >
>>     > On Dec 13, 2013, at 6:38 PM, John Shooab <jshooab at gmail.com
>>     <mailto:jshooab at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>     >
>>     >> Hello,
>>     >>
>>     >> I am in charge to investigate new JBPM and Drools 6 status.
>>     >>
>>     >> I should say that I'm kind confuse.
>>     >>
>>     >> Looking at maven central, already have 6.0.0.Final artifacts:
>>     http://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Corg.jbpm%7Cjbpm%7C6.0.0.Final%7Cpom
>>     >>
>>     >> But looking at http://www.jboss.org/jbpm/ there are any
>>     reference to 6.0.0 !
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >> looking at jira here (https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBPM) I
>>     could see the 6.0.0.Final was release, but there are 3 different
>>     versions:jBPM 6.1.0.Final, jBPM 6.0.1.Final and jBPM 6.x !!!
>>     >>
>>     >> could someone explain me that ?
>>     >>
>>     >> which version should I track in jira? which source branch is
>>     the one that I should clone if I need to see the examples?
>>     >>
>>     >> thanks,
>>     >>
>>     >> John.
>>     >> _______________________________________________
>>     >> jbpm-dev mailing list
>>     >> jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org <mailto:jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org>
>>     >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev
>>     >
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     jbpm-dev mailing list
>>     jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org <mailto:jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org>
>>     https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>  - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.com <http://salaboy.wordpress.com>
>>  - Co-Founder @ http://www.jugargentina.org
>>  - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar
>>
>>  - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -
>

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From jshooab at gmail.com  Tue Dec 17 07:25:49 2013
From: jshooab at gmail.com (John Shooab)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 09:25:49 -0300
Subject: [jbpm-dev] jbpm 6 released ?
In-Reply-To: <52AF1CD9.8090606@gmail.com>
References: <52AB7040.3050000@gmail.com>	<6F87326C-073C-4EDD-8B4E-0926D4388AEC@redhat.com>	<52AEEED4.7000008@gmail.com>	<CANzbnyXSQoL=GLYvCOtDDCSV5aBa43i65aJn0KGQh3hpkNa2Vg@mail.gmail.com>	<52AEFBD6.3040505@gmail.com>
	<52AF1CD9.8090606@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52B042CD.9080503@gmail.com>

Hello Cristiano,

We have to agree with you. That factory approach is really a "point of 
risk" for osgi !

We had problems with hibernate too and we use Open JPA plus Aries JPA.

but you told me that there are people using drools with blueprint.  but 
they wouldn't get into same problems too?

have you talked about this with the drools/jbpm teams ?

do you mind if I contact you personally ?

thanks,

John

On 16/12/13 12:31, Cristiano Gavi?o wrote:
> John,
>
> I've passed sometime evaluating 6.x for equinox some months ago. We 
> end up given up to use it in current project because we found lot of 
> these classloading issues in that time. almost all examples failed to 
> run as is...
>
> I heard that some guys could setup JBPM fine (just a couple of smoke 
> tests was done, actually) using blueprint. but as I think blueprint is 
> too much heavy for my needs (I use DS instead) I didn't take a look, 
> yet...
>
> Just to anticipate your team, the major problem that identified was 
> the Factory architecture being used by Drools, Kie and etc. They was 
> planned to work with java SE *flat* classpaths... in they world, 
> developer just need to put the needed jar in a place where java could 
> find it... but we know that is not the reality in the OSGi world.
>
> Take a look on this KieServices class [1]. that is one of the most 
> used class that I could see in the examples provided by drools.
>
> Observe that this class exists in bundle Kie-API and in the line 165 
> will try to instantiate another class that exists in the " 
> org.drools.compiler" bundle and worst, using Class.forName().
> You will find sentences like this everywhere in source code... And you 
> won't see any integration tests for each of them...
>
> As you could note, this breaks OSGi modular concept, and could be the 
> origin of the classloading issues your team are facing...
>
> I heard that some people could "bypass" those errors patching the 
> manifest generation for :
> A)  to add an import package from the Implementation bundle inside the 
> API bundle ! :(  that is crap
> B)  or to add a Dynamic Import-Package [2].
>
> I had negative experiences with Dynamic Import-Package when I tried to 
> use Hibernate in OSGi many year ago (too many issues that we lost 
> confidence and moved to gemini + eclipselink). So, I'm in skeptical 
> with its use in Drools/JBPM 6, too.
>
> One solution would be the use of JDK's ServiceLoader api [3] and the 
> SPI spec in osgi side, but I have doubts that the team would buy for 
> this route... :)
>
> anyway, good luck and let us know about your team experiments.
>
>
> [1] - 
> https://github.com/droolsjbpm/droolsjbpm-knowledge/blob/master/kie-api/src/main/java/org/kie/api/KieServices.java#L165 
>
> [2] - 
> http://keheliya.blogspot.com.br/2013/02/use-of-dynamicimport-package-in-osgi.html
> [3] - 
> http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/ext/basics/spi.html#the-serviceloader-class)
>
> best regards,
>
> Cristiano
>
> On 16/12/13 10:10, John Shooab wrote:
>> Hi Mauricio,
>>
>> I could see that many issues were resolved in Drools and JBPM Jira, 
>> that is really good.
>>
>> The system environment where we plan to use JBPM is Equinox. So, what 
>> concerned we most are the issues that wasn't raised yet related 
>> running 6.x into OSGi.
>>
>> In one entire day one of my team members wasn't able to make it run. 
>> I can't specify the problems right now because he got out for 
>> vacation without pass me the report file. But seems that it was 
>> related to classloading issues...
>>
>> I asked to someone to repeat his procedure this week again and we 
>> will raise the issues, if necessary...
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> John
>>
>> On 16/12/13 09:22, Mauricio Salatino wrote:
>>> HI John,
>>> If you can highlight which issues that you see there are important 
>>> to you please let us know. We are still cleaning Jira for the last 
>>> release so some of them are already fixed or not relevant.
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 1:15 PM, John Shooab <jshooab at gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:jshooab at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Hi Alexandre,
>>>
>>>     looking the number of issues since 6.0.0.Final at Jira, for us seems
>>>     that the release of Drools and Jbpm 6.0.0.Final.
>>>     was a kind precipitated...
>>>
>>>     We decided to postpone our prototype with 6.0.x for while...
>>>
>>>     thanks anyway,
>>>
>>>     John
>>>
>>>     On 14/12/13 09:33, Alexandre Porcelli wrote:
>>>     > Binaries were released, but we're still working on
>>>     communication (new web site, new tutorials, videos, etc...)
>>>     >
>>>     > But if you check http://www.jboss.org/jbpm Documentation or
>>>     Downloads sections there are references to new release.
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     > Regards,
>>>     > ---
>>>     > Alexandre Porcelli
>>>     > Principal Software Engineer
>>>     > Red Hat Business Systems and Intelligence Group
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     > On Dec 13, 2013, at 6:38 PM, John Shooab <jshooab at gmail.com
>>>     <mailto:jshooab at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>     >
>>>     >> Hello,
>>>     >>
>>>     >> I am in charge to investigate new JBPM and Drools 6 status.
>>>     >>
>>>     >> I should say that I'm kind confuse.
>>>     >>
>>>     >> Looking at maven central, already have 6.0.0.Final artifacts:
>>>     http://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Corg.jbpm%7Cjbpm%7C6.0.0.Final%7Cpom
>>>     >>
>>>     >> But looking at http://www.jboss.org/jbpm/ there are any
>>>     reference to 6.0.0 !
>>>     >>
>>>     >>
>>>     >> looking at jira here (https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBPM) I
>>>     could see the 6.0.0.Final was release, but there are 3 different
>>>     versions:jBPM 6.1.0.Final, jBPM 6.0.1.Final and jBPM 6.x !!!
>>>     >>
>>>     >> could someone explain me that ?
>>>     >>
>>>     >> which version should I track in jira? which source branch is
>>>     the one that I should clone if I need to see the examples?
>>>     >>
>>>     >> thanks,
>>>     >>
>>>     >> John.
>>>     >> _______________________________________________
>>>     >> jbpm-dev mailing list
>>>     >> jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org <mailto:jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org>
>>>     >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev
>>>     >
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     jbpm-dev mailing list
>>>     jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org <mailto:jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org>
>>>     https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>  - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.com <http://salaboy.wordpress.com>
>>>  - Co-Founder @ http://www.jugargentina.org
>>>  - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar
>>>
>>>  - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> jbpm-dev mailing list
> jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev

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From cvgaviao at gmail.com  Tue Dec 17 07:42:24 2013
From: cvgaviao at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Cristiano_Gavi=E3o?=)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 09:42:24 -0300
Subject: [jbpm-dev] jbpm 6 released ?
In-Reply-To: <52B042CD.9080503@gmail.com>
References: <52AB7040.3050000@gmail.com>	<6F87326C-073C-4EDD-8B4E-0926D4388AEC@redhat.com>	<52AEEED4.7000008@gmail.com>	<CANzbnyXSQoL=GLYvCOtDDCSV5aBa43i65aJn0KGQh3hpkNa2Vg@mail.gmail.com>	<52AEFBD6.3040505@gmail.com>	<52AF1CD9.8090606@gmail.com>
	<52B042CD.9080503@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52B046B0.1040200@gmail.com>

On 17/12/13 09:25, John Shooab wrote:
> Hello Cristiano,
>
> We have to agree with you. That factory approach is really a "point of 
> risk" for osgi !
>
> We had problems with hibernate too and we use Open JPA plus Aries JPA.
so you know what I'm talking about... :)

>
> but you told me that there are people using drools with blueprint.  
> but they wouldn't get into same problems too?
well, what I know is that blueprint is based on heavy spring stuffs... 
and there are always some magic with spring :)
I saw that there are some examples with karaf and spring, maybe you 
could have a try...
>
> have you talked about this with the drools/jbpm teams ?
yep, the best answer that I had was "we don't have payable customer that 
is using osgi" !

>
> do you mind if I contact you personally ?
ok

>
> thanks,
>
> John
>
> On 16/12/13 12:31, Cristiano Gavi?o wrote:
>> John,
>>
>> I've passed sometime evaluating 6.x for equinox some months ago. We 
>> end up given up to use it in current project because we found lot of 
>> these classloading issues in that time. almost all examples failed to 
>> run as is...
>>
>> I heard that some guys could setup JBPM fine (just a couple of smoke 
>> tests was done, actually) using blueprint. but as I think blueprint 
>> is too much heavy for my needs (I use DS instead) I didn't take a 
>> look, yet...
>>
>> Just to anticipate your team, the major problem that identified was 
>> the Factory architecture being used by Drools, Kie and etc. They was 
>> planned to work with java SE *flat* classpaths... in they world, 
>> developer just need to put the needed jar in a place where java could 
>> find it... but we know that is not the reality in the OSGi world.
>>
>> Take a look on this KieServices class [1]. that is one of the most 
>> used class that I could see in the examples provided by drools.
>>
>> Observe that this class exists in bundle Kie-API and in the line 165 
>> will try to instantiate another class that exists in the " 
>> org.drools.compiler" bundle and worst, using Class.forName().
>> You will find sentences like this everywhere in source code... And 
>> you won't see any integration tests for each of them...
>>
>> As you could note, this breaks OSGi modular concept, and could be the 
>> origin of the classloading issues your team are facing...
>>
>> I heard that some people could "bypass" those errors patching the 
>> manifest generation for :
>> A)  to add an import package from the Implementation bundle inside 
>> the API bundle ! :(  that is crap
>> B)  or to add a Dynamic Import-Package [2].
>>
>> I had negative experiences with Dynamic Import-Package when I tried 
>> to use Hibernate in OSGi many year ago (too many issues that we lost 
>> confidence and moved to gemini + eclipselink). So, I'm in skeptical 
>> with its use in Drools/JBPM 6, too.
>>
>> One solution would be the use of JDK's ServiceLoader api [3] and the 
>> SPI spec in osgi side, but I have doubts that the team would buy for 
>> this route... :)
>>
>> anyway, good luck and let us know about your team experiments.
>>
>>
>> [1] - 
>> https://github.com/droolsjbpm/droolsjbpm-knowledge/blob/master/kie-api/src/main/java/org/kie/api/KieServices.java#L165 
>>
>> [2] - 
>> http://keheliya.blogspot.com.br/2013/02/use-of-dynamicimport-package-in-osgi.html
>> [3] - 
>> http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/ext/basics/spi.html#the-serviceloader-class)
>>
>> best regards,
>>
>> Cristiano
>>
>> On 16/12/13 10:10, John Shooab wrote:
>>> Hi Mauricio,
>>>
>>> I could see that many issues were resolved in Drools and JBPM Jira, 
>>> that is really good.
>>>
>>> The system environment where we plan to use JBPM is Equinox. So, 
>>> what concerned we most are the issues that wasn't raised yet related 
>>> running 6.x into OSGi.
>>>
>>> In one entire day one of my team members wasn't able to make it run. 
>>> I can't specify the problems right now because he got out for 
>>> vacation without pass me the report file. But seems that it was 
>>> related to classloading issues...
>>>
>>> I asked to someone to repeat his procedure this week again and we 
>>> will raise the issues, if necessary...
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On 16/12/13 09:22, Mauricio Salatino wrote:
>>>> HI John,
>>>> If you can highlight which issues that you see there are important 
>>>> to you please let us know. We are still cleaning Jira for the last 
>>>> release so some of them are already fixed or not relevant.
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 1:15 PM, John Shooab <jshooab at gmail.com 
>>>> <mailto:jshooab at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     Hi Alexandre,
>>>>
>>>>     looking the number of issues since 6.0.0.Final at Jira, for us
>>>>     seems
>>>>     that the release of Drools and Jbpm 6.0.0.Final.
>>>>     was a kind precipitated...
>>>>
>>>>     We decided to postpone our prototype with 6.0.x for while...
>>>>
>>>>     thanks anyway,
>>>>
>>>>     John
>>>>
>>>>     On 14/12/13 09:33, Alexandre Porcelli wrote:
>>>>     > Binaries were released, but we're still working on
>>>>     communication (new web site, new tutorials, videos, etc...)
>>>>     >
>>>>     > But if you check http://www.jboss.org/jbpm Documentation or
>>>>     Downloads sections there are references to new release.
>>>>     >
>>>>     >
>>>>     > Regards,
>>>>     > ---
>>>>     > Alexandre Porcelli
>>>>     > Principal Software Engineer
>>>>     > Red Hat Business Systems and Intelligence Group
>>>>     >
>>>>     >
>>>>     > On Dec 13, 2013, at 6:38 PM, John Shooab <jshooab at gmail.com
>>>>     <mailto:jshooab at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>     >
>>>>     >> Hello,
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> I am in charge to investigate new JBPM and Drools 6 status.
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> I should say that I'm kind confuse.
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> Looking at maven central, already have 6.0.0.Final
>>>>     artifacts:
>>>>     http://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Corg.jbpm%7Cjbpm%7C6.0.0.Final%7Cpom
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> But looking at http://www.jboss.org/jbpm/ there are any
>>>>     reference to 6.0.0 !
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> looking at jira here (https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBPM)
>>>>     I could see the 6.0.0.Final was release, but there are 3
>>>>     different versions:jBPM 6.1.0.Final, jBPM 6.0.1.Final and jBPM
>>>>     6.x !!!
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> could someone explain me that ?
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> which version should I track in jira? which source branch is
>>>>     the one that I should clone if I need to see the examples?
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> thanks,
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> John.
>>>>     >> _______________________________________________
>>>>     >> jbpm-dev mailing list
>>>>     >> jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org <mailto:jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org>
>>>>     >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev
>>>>     >
>>>>
>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>     jbpm-dev mailing list
>>>>     jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org <mailto:jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org>
>>>>     https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>>  - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.com <http://salaboy.wordpress.com>
>>>>  - Co-Founder @ http://www.jugargentina.org
>>>>  - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar
>>>>
>>>>  - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> jbpm-dev mailing list
>> jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> jbpm-dev mailing list
> jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev

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From kannangk7 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 20 00:09:57 2013
From: kannangk7 at gmail.com (Kannan G.krishnan)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 10:39:57 +0530
Subject: [jbpm-dev] process parameters in the rule task
Message-ID: <CANJXXURw+JQX73FbFdp+opWReLYQaLrxk94cjEXFyAxUGVHwDg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

I am kannan. I am trying to configure the business rule task in my
workflow. i have created the rule with the help of guvnor and it worked
dine. Now i want to configure the rule task with the human task. How can i
pass the human task form variables to the rule task using guvnor??

i am using jbpm 5.4

Regards
kannan
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From bakir_diyar at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 30 23:38:19 2013
From: bakir_diyar at hotmail.com (Bakir Diyar Vasquez Silva)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 01:38:19 -0300
Subject: [jbpm-dev] (no subject)
Message-ID: <BAY172-W42F731F9D120535308AA7B84C90@phx.gbl>

with hello, I'm Diyar, tesista Diego Portales University, JBPM 5.4 practitioner, I am writing to you because I need to get a code to update my twitter status through a workitem (already created), appreciate your support for this work 
 
thank you very much 

Diyar Bakir carefully 		 	   		  
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From bakir_diyar at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 30 23:42:42 2013
From: bakir_diyar at hotmail.com (Bakir Diyar Vasquez Silva)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 01:42:42 -0300
Subject: [jbpm-dev] code help
Message-ID: <BAY172-W26B401CBF41D55C7D644A784C90@phx.gbl>

with hello, I'm Diyar, tesista Diego Portales University, JBPM 5.4 practitioner, I am writing to you because I need to get a code to update my twitter status through a workitem (already created), appreciate your support for this work 
 
thank you very much 

Diyar Bakir carefully  		 	   		  
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From salaboy at gmail.com  Tue Dec 31 17:33:59 2013
From: salaboy at gmail.com (Mauricio Salatino)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 20:33:59 -0200
Subject: [jbpm-dev] code help
In-Reply-To: <BAY172-W26B401CBF41D55C7D644A784C90@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY172-W26B401CBF41D55C7D644A784C90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CANzbnyXukawHDbugz69Px36XJJEPAvtNz_oRf+Q9xp9c4g+nOQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
please write to the jbpm forums, this is a jbpm internal devs list. Use the
user forums.



On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 1:42 AM, Bakir Diyar Vasquez Silva <
bakir_diyar at hotmail.com> wrote:

> with hello, I'm Diyar, tesista Diego Portales University, JBPM 5.4
> practitioner, I am writing to you because I need to get a code to update my
> twitter status through a workitem (already created), appreciate your
> support for this work
>
> thank you very much
>
> Diyar Bakir carefully
>
> _______________________________________________
> jbpm-dev mailing list
> jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev
>



-- 
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 - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar

 - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -
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