[jbpm-dev] jbpm 6 released ?

Cristiano Gavião cvgaviao at gmail.com
Tue Dec 17 07:42:24 EST 2013 

On 17/12/13 09:25, John Shooab wrote:
> Hello Cristiano,
>
> We have to agree with you. That factory approach is really a "point of 
> risk" for osgi !
>
> We had problems with hibernate too and we use Open JPA plus Aries JPA.
so you know what I'm talking about... :)

>
> but you told me that there are people using drools with blueprint.  
> but they wouldn't get into same problems too?
well, what I know is that blueprint is based on heavy spring stuffs... 
and there are always some magic with spring :)
I saw that there are some examples with karaf and spring, maybe you 
could have a try...
>
> have you talked about this with the drools/jbpm teams ?
yep, the best answer that I had was "we don't have payable customer that 
is using osgi" !

>
> do you mind if I contact you personally ?
ok

>
> thanks,
>
> John
>
> On 16/12/13 12:31, Cristiano Gavião wrote:
>> John,
>>
>> I've passed sometime evaluating 6.x for equinox some months ago. We 
>> end up given up to use it in current project because we found lot of 
>> these classloading issues in that time. almost all examples failed to 
>> run as is...
>>
>> I heard that some guys could setup JBPM fine (just a couple of smoke 
>> tests was done, actually) using blueprint. but as I think blueprint 
>> is too much heavy for my needs (I use DS instead) I didn't take a 
>> look, yet...
>>
>> Just to anticipate your team, the major problem that identified was 
>> the Factory architecture being used by Drools, Kie and etc. They was 
>> planned to work with java SE *flat* classpaths... in they world, 
>> developer just need to put the needed jar in a place where java could 
>> find it... but we know that is not the reality in the OSGi world.
>>
>> Take a look on this KieServices class [1]. that is one of the most 
>> used class that I could see in the examples provided by drools.
>>
>> Observe that this class exists in bundle Kie-API and in the line 165 
>> will try to instantiate another class that exists in the " 
>> org.drools.compiler" bundle and worst, using Class.forName().
>> You will find sentences like this everywhere in source code... And 
>> you won't see any integration tests for each of them...
>>
>> As you could note, this breaks OSGi modular concept, and could be the 
>> origin of the classloading issues your team are facing...
>>
>> I heard that some people could "bypass" those errors patching the 
>> manifest generation for :
>> A)  to add an import package from the Implementation bundle inside 
>> the API bundle ! :(  that is crap
>> B)  or to add a Dynamic Import-Package [2].
>>
>> I had negative experiences with Dynamic Import-Package when I tried 
>> to use Hibernate in OSGi many year ago (too many issues that we lost 
>> confidence and moved to gemini + eclipselink). So, I'm in skeptical 
>> with its use in Drools/JBPM 6, too.
>>
>> One solution would be the use of JDK's ServiceLoader api [3] and the 
>> SPI spec in osgi side, but I have doubts that the team would buy for 
>> this route... :)
>>
>> anyway, good luck and let us know about your team experiments.
>>
>>
>> [1] - 
>> https://github.com/droolsjbpm/droolsjbpm-knowledge/blob/master/kie-api/src/main/java/org/kie/api/KieServices.java#L165 
>>
>> [2] - 
>> http://keheliya.blogspot.com.br/2013/02/use-of-dynamicimport-package-in-osgi.html
>> [3] - 
>> http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/ext/basics/spi.html#the-serviceloader-class)
>>
>> best regards,
>>
>> Cristiano
>>
>> On 16/12/13 10:10, John Shooab wrote:
>>> Hi Mauricio,
>>>
>>> I could see that many issues were resolved in Drools and JBPM Jira, 
>>> that is really good.
>>>
>>> The system environment where we plan to use JBPM is Equinox. So, 
>>> what concerned we most are the issues that wasn't raised yet related 
>>> running 6.x into OSGi.
>>>
>>> In one entire day one of my team members wasn't able to make it run. 
>>> I can't specify the problems right now because he got out for 
>>> vacation without pass me the report file. But seems that it was 
>>> related to classloading issues...
>>>
>>> I asked to someone to repeat his procedure this week again and we 
>>> will raise the issues, if necessary...
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On 16/12/13 09:22, Mauricio Salatino wrote:
>>>> HI John,
>>>> If you can highlight which issues that you see there are important 
>>>> to you please let us know. We are still cleaning Jira for the last 
>>>> release so some of them are already fixed or not relevant.
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 1:15 PM, John Shooab <jshooab at gmail.com 
>>>> <mailto:jshooab at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     Hi Alexandre,
>>>>
>>>>     looking the number of issues since 6.0.0.Final at Jira, for us
>>>>     seems
>>>>     that the release of Drools and Jbpm 6.0.0.Final.
>>>>     was a kind precipitated...
>>>>
>>>>     We decided to postpone our prototype with 6.0.x for while...
>>>>
>>>>     thanks anyway,
>>>>
>>>>     John
>>>>
>>>>     On 14/12/13 09:33, Alexandre Porcelli wrote:
>>>>     > Binaries were released, but we're still working on
>>>>     communication (new web site, new tutorials, videos, etc...)
>>>>     >
>>>>     > But if you check http://www.jboss.org/jbpm Documentation or
>>>>     Downloads sections there are references to new release.
>>>>     >
>>>>     >
>>>>     > Regards,
>>>>     > ---
>>>>     > Alexandre Porcelli
>>>>     > Principal Software Engineer
>>>>     > Red Hat Business Systems and Intelligence Group
>>>>     >
>>>>     >
>>>>     > On Dec 13, 2013, at 6:38 PM, John Shooab <jshooab at gmail.com
>>>>     <mailto:jshooab at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>     >
>>>>     >> Hello,
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> I am in charge to investigate new JBPM and Drools 6 status.
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> I should say that I'm kind confuse.
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> Looking at maven central, already have 6.0.0.Final
>>>>     artifacts:
>>>>     http://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Corg.jbpm%7Cjbpm%7C6.0.0.Final%7Cpom
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> But looking at http://www.jboss.org/jbpm/ there are any
>>>>     reference to 6.0.0 !
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> looking at jira here (https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBPM)
>>>>     I could see the 6.0.0.Final was release, but there are 3
>>>>     different versions:jBPM 6.1.0.Final, jBPM 6.0.1.Final and jBPM
>>>>     6.x !!!
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> could someone explain me that ?
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> which version should I track in jira? which source branch is
>>>>     the one that I should clone if I need to see the examples?
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> thanks,
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> John.
>>>>     >> _______________________________________________
>>>>     >> jbpm-dev mailing list
>>>>     >> jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org <mailto:jbpm-dev at lists.jboss.org>
>>>>     >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev
>>>>     >
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>>  - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.com <http://salaboy.wordpress.com>
>>>>  - Co-Founder @ http://www.jugargentina.org
>>>>  - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar
>>>>
>>>>  - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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