Great.. i will try to take a look on that and give you some estimations.. <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Antoine Toulme <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:atoulme@intalio.com">atoulme@intalio.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">I would recommend reading pages 292 and 436.<div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div><br></div><font color="#888888"><div>
Antoine</div></font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 9:14 AM, Mauricio Salatino <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:salaboy@gmail.com" target="_blank">salaboy@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Can you please point me in the spec (Pages) so I can review it and give you some feedback and estimations?<div>I'm pretty sure that we can use a complex converging gateway to cover that features, but I would like to be sure that we are talking about the same thing. <br>
<div>Cheers<div><div></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Antoine Toulme <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:atoulme@intalio.com" target="_blank">atoulme@intalio.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
The BPMN spec contains the business requirements and the description of the functionality of this construct.<div>Anurag also explained the functionality in this thread.</div><div><br></div><div>The questions we have for the jBPM team are:</div>
<div>-is this construct on the roadmap ? if yes, for which release ?</div><div>-if yes, is there a way to track its development ?</div><div>-Overall, what would the work consist and how hard is it to implement ?</div><div>
<br></div><div>Please advise.</div><div><br></div><font color="#888888"><div>Antoine</div></font><div><div></div><div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Mauricio Salatino <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:salaboy@gmail.com" target="_blank">salaboy@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">That's what I mention. it can be easy to implement most of the times but there are also some complex business use case that can complicate the generic approaches.<div>
Looking at a concrete use case will help a lot to understand what do you want to achieve. <div><div></div><div><br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 12:53 PM, mardo <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mardo@abicola.de" target="_blank">mardo@abicola.de</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="DE" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Hi there,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">just some general remarks from my side:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">the semantics and implementation of the inclusive OR-join are far from trivial. See e.g. references below.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><a href="http://domino.research.ibm.com/library/cyberdig.nsf/papers/331BE249A11C1B3F852577DE003B5477/$File/rz3791.pdf" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US">http://domino.research.ibm.com/library/cyberdig.nsf/papers/331BE249A11C1B3F852577DE003B5477/$File/rz3791.pdf</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.springerlink.com/content/97413825k6141332/" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US">http://www.springerlink.com/content/97413825k6141332/</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">However, I’d be interested in the concrete business requirement you have for modeling, since from my experience you can cover a very large part of regular requirements just using the “simple” gateways.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Best<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Markus<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt"> <a href="mailto:jbpm-dev-bounces@lists.jboss.org" target="_blank">jbpm-dev-bounces@lists.jboss.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:jbpm-dev-bounces@lists.jboss.org" target="_blank">jbpm-dev-bounces@lists.jboss.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mauricio Salatino<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Freitag, 12. August 2011 14:21<br><b>To:</b> Anurag Aggarwal<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:jbpm-dev@lists.jboss.org" target="_blank">jbpm-dev@lists.jboss.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [jbpm-dev] Re- IOR gateway<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Hi Anurag,<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Based on your description I think that I'm understanding what do you want to do now. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Right now the behaviors implemented in jBPM5 are XOR and AND. <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I think what you want to implement is N of M converging gateway, as it was in Drools Flow? Am I right?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal">You want to wait 2 of the 3 branches that you have to propagate the execution? <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">
Cheers<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 5:47 AM, Anurag Aggarwal <<a href="mailto:anurag@intalio.com" target="_blank">anurag@intalio.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">
Hi Mauricio,<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">If an an AND converging gateway has n incoming branches, it expects that all incoming have been triggered and when it is so - it calls triggerCompleted (so that the rest of the process can continue)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">In case of OR converging, lets assume a process<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
branch1 <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> / \<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">OR (diverging) - branch 2 - OR (converging)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> \ /<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> branch 3<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal">now any of branches may be triggered, OR converging has to wait for all branches that were actually triggered (say branch1 and branch 3). But the problem is it does not know which branches were triggered (for AND it was easier - just wait for all branches to be triggered). here in case of OR - we don't know to continue to wait for branch 2 or not<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Regards, Anurag<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Aug 12, 2011, at 1:18 AM, Mauricio Salatino wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Hi Antoine,<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal">So do you want to implement and OR or and AND converging gateway, by the description it looks like and AND converging gateway. Is there any differences with the AND converging gateway that is currently implemented in jBPM5? <u></u><u></u></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Cheers<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Antoine Toulme <<a href="mailto:atoulme@intalio.com" target="_blank">atoulme@intalio.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Mauricio, that's an OR converging gateway.<u></u><u></u></p><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 12:42 AM, Mauricio Salatino <<a href="mailto:salaboy@gmail.com" target="_blank">salaboy@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi guys.. that's the AND Converging gateway right?<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">The AND waits for all the branches that are converging before propagate.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div>
<p class="MsoNormal">
If that's not what you are looking for it should be very easy to implement.. and probably you can model that with the complex converge gateway.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Cheers.<u></u><u></u></p><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 4:33 PM, Antoine Toulme <<a href="mailto:atoulme@intalio.com" target="_blank">atoulme@intalio.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Broadcasting to list in case other committers have an insight ?<u></u><u></u></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Antoine<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 12:39 PM, Anurag Aggarwal <<a href="mailto:anurag@intalio.com" target="_blank">anurag@intalio.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Kris,<br><br>How are you<br><br>Recently one of our requirements came up for converging IOR gateway, this is the gateway which according to bpmn specification syncs up on all upstream tokens and propagates token when no upstream token is left<br>
<br>Currently jbpm does not support this construct, I was wondering if jbom has this in roadmap and if you can give some advice on difficulty and state of implementation<br><br>Regards,<br><span style="color:#888888">Anurag</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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