We can start defining how it should work.. and then as soon as I have a weekend off I can start working on it :)<div>Cheers<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 1:31 PM, Tihomir Surdilovic <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:tsurdilo@redhat.com" target="_blank">tsurdilo@redhat.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <div>Sounds good, so I guess a generic tool
      that can help resolve the fact models across rules/processes.<br>
      The UI can then utilize this tool when needed.<br>
      <br>
      When you gonna work on that? :)<br>
      <br>
      Thanks.<div><div class="h5"><br>
      On 8/16/12 7:52 AM, Mauricio Salatino wrote:<br>
    </div></div></div><div><div class="h5">
    <blockquote type="cite">It can be used for every data mapping that we need to
      do, for example to map the Person fields (age, name, address) to
      different fields in a form. 
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>This is not about using expressions to resolve values at
        runtime, you can consider a data mapper a tool to create those
        expressions based on the data available. This kind of tools can
        be also used for Rules as well, so the process designer is just
        one component that can use that. </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>The idea is </div>
      <div>1) recognize that we have a Person (Person object and person
        input to the task for example)</div>
      <div>2) look for its fields (age, name, address)</div>
      <div>3) look for the already defined variables in the scope where
        we want to map things  (name inside the task scope)</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Cheers</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 12:39 PM,
          Tihomir Surdilovic <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:tsurdilo@redhat.com" target="_blank">tsurdilo@redhat.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
              <div>Transformation expressions are part of the BPMN2
                specification. For example Person.name assignment would
                have a transformation expression defined which evaluates
                this expression and its result is copied to the target
                reference.<br>
                <br>
                Can&#39;t think right now why it would be useful to have
                data association abilities as stand-alone outside of the
                process modelling environment but maybe I don&#39;t
                understand what you mean.<br>
                <br>
                Thanks.
                <div>
                  <div><br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    On 8/16/12 7:12 AM, Mauricio Salatino wrote:<br>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <blockquote type="cite">And we should think about
                    having a component that can be used outside the
                    process designer as well.
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>When you say transformations what do you mean? </div>
                    <div><br>
                      <br>
                      <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at
                        12:11 PM, Tihomir Surdilovic <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:tsurdilo@redhat.com" target="_blank">tsurdilo@redhat.com</a>&gt;</span>
                        wrote:<br>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                          <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
                            <div>Agreed, Designer already supports
                              transformations to do what you are asking
                              for, but the data editors should allow
                              users to use this feature better. Will
                              look at it.<br>
                              <br>
                              Thanks
                              <div>
                                <div><br>
                                  On 8/16/12 7:06 AM, Mauricio Salatino
                                  wrote:<br>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <blockquote type="cite">Just a quick
                                  comment about mapping data,
                                  <div>I think that we need a
                                    specialized component to do that,
                                    because is a cross cutting concern. </div>
                                  <div>No matter if we are mapping task
                                    inputs and task outputs or a form
                                    field, we need a graphical mapping
                                    component to take care of that.</div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>We need a graphical way to do
                                    something like</div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>Input: Person -----&gt;
                                    Person.name ---- &lt;mapped to&gt;
                                    ----&gt; name</div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>and the other way around</div>
                                  <div> <br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>Output Person.name
                                    &lt;----&lt;mapped to&gt;--- name</div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div><br>
                                    <br>
                                    <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug
                                      16, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Tihomir
                                      Surdilovic <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:tsurdilo@redhat.com" target="_blank">tsurdilo@redhat.com</a>&gt;</span>
                                      wrote:<br>
                                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                        <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
                                          <div>There are a number of
                                            ideas floating around on
                                            this - and yes data mapping
                                            within a BPMN2 process is
                                            probably now one of the
                                            hardest things to set up and
                                            maintain. <br>
                                            <br>
                                            a) Have ability to map data
                                            outputs of a task to data
                                            inputs of the connected
                                            tasks(s) with a single
                                            button click<br>
                                            b) Ability to visualize the
                                            data flow of the process<br>
                                            c) Notifications of
                                            dependency errors when users
                                            decide to remove a process
                                            var, globals, imports, etc<br>
                                            d) Ability to &quot;copy&quot;
                                            existing data elements such
                                            as
                                            variables/globals/imports/etc
                                            from an already existing
                                            process or a process
                                            template..this has been
                                            asked in the community
                                            already and we are looking
                                            at it.<br>
                                            <br>
                                            jBPM follows the BPMN2
                                            specification for data setup
                                            and mapping closely which is
                                            a good thing as it does not
                                            introduce any wrappers
                                            around it (you might see
                                            other tools use extensions
                                            elements for this heavily).
                                            I don&#39;t think writing
                                            wrappers is a good idea,
                                            however making working with
                                            data as simple and intuitive
                                            as possible for users is
                                            very important so any
                                            ideas/thoughts/contributions
                                            are very welcome :)<br>
                                            <br>
                                            Jean-Jacques, If you want to
                                            jump on IRC and I&#39;d be happy
                                            to talk to you in detail
                                            about all of this as well.<br>
                                            <br>
                                            Thanks.<br>
                                            Tihomir<br>
                                            <br>
                                            On 8/16/12 3:38 AM, Esteban
                                            Aliverti wrote:<br>
                                          </div>
                                          <blockquote type="cite">The
                                            problem is that BPMN2
                                            specification requires the
                                            variables to be defined.
                                            <div>What you will need to
                                              do is to modify Designer
                                              to automatically create
                                              the required variables
                                              according to the IO
                                              specification of the tasks
                                              you have. Unfortunately
                                              this is not as easy as it
                                              sounds ;).</div>
                                            <div>Designer keeps a
                                              representation of the
                                              process in JSON format.
                                              That JSON is then
                                              converted into BPMN2 when
                                              it is saved. When you open
                                              a process Designer first
                                              converts it from BPMN2 to
                                              JSNO back again. </div>
                                            <div>You will need to tweak
                                              the
                                              Marshalling/Unmarshalling
                                              process..</div>
                                            <div>The classes in charge
                                              of this are:
                                               org/jbpm/designer/bpmn2/impl/Bpmn2JsonMarshaller.java
                                              and
                                              java/org/jbpm/designer/bpmn2/impl/Bpmn2JsonUnmarshaller.java<br clear="all">
                                              <br>
                                              @Tiho, do you see a better
                                              solution?</div>
                                            <div><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>Best Regards,<br>
                                              <br>
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX<br>
                                              <br>
                                              Esteban Aliverti<br>
                                              - Blog @ <a href="http://ilesteban.wordpress.com" target="_blank">http://ilesteban.wordpress.com</a><br>
                                              <br>
                                              <br>
                                              <div class="gmail_quote">On
                                                Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at
                                                5:10 AM, Jean-Jacques
                                                Borie <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:jean-jacques.borie@bluebe.com" target="_blank">jean-jacques.borie@bluebe.com</a>&gt;</span>
                                                wrote:<br>
                                                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I
                                                  need to add that we
                                                  plan to use work item
                                                  definition file to
                                                  declare parameters of
                                                  work item and we don&#39;t
                                                  want to do it again on
                                                  the workflow.<span><font color="#888888"><br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      Jean-Jacques</font></span>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <div><br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      <div class="gmail_quote">On
                                                        Thu, Aug 16,
                                                        2012 at 10:06
                                                        AM, Jean-Jacques
                                                        Borie <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:jean-jacques.borie@bluebe.com" target="_blank">jean-jacques.borie@bluebe.com</a>&gt;</span>
                                                        wrote:<br>
                                                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hello,<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          I want to
                                                          simplify Oryx
                                                          designer in
                                                          order to don&#39;t
                                                          have to map
                                                          every
                                                          variables with
                                                          input/output
                                                          of task.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          I want to
                                                          remove the
                                                          need of
                                                          declaring
                                                          global
                                                          variable and
                                                          the mapping
                                                          with parameter
                                                          of task.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          When you have
                                                          lots of
                                                          workflow, it&#39;s
                                                          start to be
                                                          very annoying.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          I&#39;m thinking
                                                          of moving this
                                                          declaration of
                                                          mapping to do
                                                          it at runtime.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Like having a
                                                          spring
                                                          configuration
                                                          file to
                                                          declare all
                                                          variables
                                                          needed for a
                                                          series of
                                                          workflow.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          And next do
                                                          the mapping of
                                                          variable by
                                                          IOC with work
                                                          item or
                                                          something like
                                                          that.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          I want to keep
                                                          the scope
                                                          variable
                                                          between
                                                          process and
                                                          work item.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          I want to make
                                                          easier the
                                                          work of people
                                                          doing the
                                                          workflow in
                                                          order to give
                                                          the tool for
                                                          non developer.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Any idea ?<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Thanks<span><font color="#888888"><br>
                                                          Jean-Jacques
                                                          Borie<br>
                                                          </font></span></blockquote>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <br>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                  jbpm-dev mailing list<br>
                                                  <a href="mailto:jbpm-dev@lists.jboss.org" target="_blank">jbpm-dev@lists.jboss.org</a><br>
                                                  <a href="https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev</a><br>
                                                  <br>
                                                </blockquote>
                                              </div>
                                              <br>
                                            </div>
                                            <br>
                                            <fieldset></fieldset>
                                            <br>
                                            <pre>_______________________________________________
jbpm-dev mailing list
<a href="mailto:jbpm-dev@lists.jboss.org" target="_blank">jbpm-dev@lists.jboss.org</a>
<a href="https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev</a>
</pre>
                                          </blockquote>
                                          <br>
                                        </div>
                                        <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                        jbpm-dev mailing list<br>
                                        <a href="mailto:jbpm-dev@lists.jboss.org" target="_blank">jbpm-dev@lists.jboss.org</a><br>
                                        <a href="https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev</a><br>
                                        <br>
                                      </blockquote>
                                    </div>
                                    <br>
                                    <br clear="all">
                                    <div><br>
                                    </div>
                                    -- <br>
                                     - MyJourney @ <a href="http://salaboy.wordpress.com" target="_blank">http://salaboy.wordpress.com</a>
                                    <div> - Co-Founder @ <a href="http://www.jugargentina.org" target="_blank">http://www.jugargentina.org</a><br>
                                       - Co-Founder @ <a href="http://www.jbug.com.ar" target="_blank">http://www.jbug.com.ar</a><br>
                                       <br>
                                       - Salatino &quot;Salaboy&quot; Mauricio -</div>
                                    <br>
                                  </div>
                                </blockquote>
                                <br>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                      <br clear="all">
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      -- <br>
                       - MyJourney @ <a href="http://salaboy.wordpress.com" target="_blank">http://salaboy.wordpress.com</a>
                      <div> - Co-Founder @ <a href="http://www.jugargentina.org" target="_blank">http://www.jugargentina.org</a><br>
                         - Co-Founder @ <a href="http://www.jbug.com.ar" target="_blank">http://www.jbug.com.ar</a><br>
                         <br>
                         - Salatino &quot;Salaboy&quot; Mauricio -</div>
                      <br>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <br>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
        <br clear="all">
        <div><br>
        </div>
        -- <br>
         - MyJourney @ <a href="http://salaboy.wordpress.com" target="_blank">http://salaboy.wordpress.com</a>
        <div> - Co-Founder @ <a href="http://www.jugargentina.org" target="_blank">http://www.jugargentina.org</a><br>
           - Co-Founder @ <a href="http://www.jbug.com.ar" target="_blank">http://www.jbug.com.ar</a><br>
           <br>
           - Salatino &quot;Salaboy&quot; Mauricio -</div>
        <br>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </div></div></div>

</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br> - MyJourney @ <a href="http://salaboy.wordpress.com" target="_blank">http://salaboy.wordpress.com</a><div> - Co-Founder @ <a href="http://www.jugargentina.org" target="_blank">http://www.jugargentina.org</a><br>

 - Co-Founder @ <a href="http://www.jbug.com.ar" target="_blank">http://www.jbug.com.ar</a><br> <br> - Salatino &quot;Salaboy&quot; Mauricio -</div><br>
</div>