[keycloak-user] Policy enforcer without roles in token

Matteo Restelli mrestelli at cuebiq.com
Tue Nov 19 03:27:15 EST 2019


Hi Pedro,
i've just commented both the pr and the Jira issue. Let's see what happens
:)

Thank you again,
Matteo

On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 6:57 PM Pedro Igor Silva <psilva at redhat.com> wrote:

> Sure, please leave your comments in the PR or
> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/KEYCLOAK-10731.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 5:16 AM Matteo Restelli <mrestelli at cuebiq.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, also for me it could be fine to introduce this feature with some
>> sort of a flag (from the KC GUI or directly in the KC adapter) to control
>> the desired behaviour. So, what about your colleagues? What do they think
>> about that?
>> If you want i can open a Jiira issue about that or i can comment the
>> previously closed PR. It could be fine for you?
>>
>> Thank you again,
>> Matteo
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 8:04 PM Pedro Igor Silva <psilva at redhat.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> You are right. But today the token is the primary source of the identity
>>> (and access context).
>>>
>>> From a KC perspective, it does not make much difference as you said.
>>> Especially because in most cases, the primary (primary from an authz
>>> perspective) claims included in the token during authentication don't
>>> represent user consent or anything alike that could potentially tie the
>>> access context to the session.
>>>
>>> If this feature can just be enabled/disabled so that users decide what
>>> they want to do, for me it is fine.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 6:14 AM Matteo Restelli <mrestelli at cuebiq.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Pedro,
>>>> Sorry for this second email. So the PR has been closed due to the fact
>>>> that it's necessary to validate only token contents. But, what about
>>>> javascript policies? I mean, if i have the following use case:
>>>>
>>>> An user is trying to make a GET to /organizations/1234/reports/1 path.
>>>> To access the following policies must pass (AND condition):
>>>> - An user must have the role "blabla" (role policy)
>>>> - An user must belong to a the group 1234 (javascript policy, we
>>>> validate the path against the fact that he belongs to a group, since we're
>>>> modeling organizations as groups in Keycloak)
>>>>
>>>> I'm validating both contents in the token and both something
>>>> "external". So it's not the same case of validating roles directly reading
>>>> the database?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> Matteo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 4:47 PM Matteo Restelli <mrestelli at cuebiq.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 4:17 PM Pedro Igor Silva <psilva at redhat.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 10:40 AM Matteo Restelli <
>>>>>> mrestelli at cuebiq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Pedro,
>>>>>>> thank you for your reply.
>>>>>>> No, i wasn't the one who requested the feature, anyway i'm still
>>>>>>> interested into it. Our use case includes several microservices (which
>>>>>>> represents modules of our PaaS) which performs authorization checks against
>>>>>>> realm based roles. Every microservices has each own client containing its
>>>>>>> authorization checks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Interesting, another use-case then ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, we've separated authorization inside each backend client, in
>>>>> order to better separate authorization requirements. Each microservice will
>>>>> then validate and refer to its own authorization requirements. The frontend
>>>>> client, instead, is a single public client which receives the complete
>>>>> lists of roles (since they're defined at realm level)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Besides the PR (which is really really interesting and i hope it
>>>>>>> will be included in further releases), what are your recommendations to
>>>>>>> reduce the access token size? I'm asking this because in some browsers
>>>>>>> there are limits (4KB) about cookies & headers length. I can imagine those
>>>>>>> solutions:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Keep the token "light" and perform a token exchange into our
>>>>>>> gateway once we receive the token from the single page application, in
>>>>>>> order to retrieve a new token with all the realms roles associated to the
>>>>>>> user
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The price you pay is a round-trip to the server. But it works ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah and i want to completely avoid that, in order to avoid
>>>>> to be "bottlenecked" by Keycloak
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Use some particular mode of the adapter which will do the
>>>>>>> necessary to retrieve the roles (but i can't find something like that in
>>>>>>> the docs)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roles are gathered from the token, always ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, i just saw it debugging the keycloak code locally... :(
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Use RPT? Once the gateway receives the access token, perform the
>>>>>>> RPT request to retrieve a token with all the permissions for the particular
>>>>>>> client
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The beauty of the RPT is that the permissions should be enough as the
>>>>>> server already granted them based on the state of the current session.
>>>>>> Resource-based permissions also decouple applications from access control
>>>>>> mechanisms so that you have more flexibility and control over the policies
>>>>>> that govern access to your resources.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It should not be seen as *the* solution for large tokens though ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Something else unknown to us? :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe use a mapper or don't include tokens by default in your token.
>>>>>> So that your client requests what he needs (yeah, more coupling between
>>>>>> your clients + resource servers). The client scopes functionality is very
>>>>>> interesting in this context given that you can set-up a scope that spans
>>>>>> multiple roles, on a per-application basis.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have you ever faced this kind of problem?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another user reported a similar requirement that originated that PR.
>>>>>> I see value in having this as it helps the "decouple authorization from
>>>>>> your applications* story.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah me too. I know that the main idea is to validate only what is
>>>>> contained in the token, but maybe it could be possible to introduce some
>>>>> other feature including this possibility...
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you again,
>>>>> Matteo
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you again,
>>>>>>> Matteo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 1:20 PM Pedro Igor Silva <psilva at redhat.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We had a PR [1] for addressing this use case but it was closed due
>>>>>>>> to not enough quorum to support the changes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> While we should keep policy enforcement based on the state carried
>>>>>>>> by tokens, I see as an improvement to also allow users, on a per-use case
>>>>>>>> basis, to fetch roles directly from the realm instead, even if they are not
>>>>>>>> available in the token.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I can't remember now, but I'm wondering if was you that first
>>>>>>>> requested this so I ended up working on these changes?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>>>> Pedro Igor
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [1] https://github.com/keycloak/keycloak/pull/6163
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 5:43 AM Matteo Restelli <
>>>>>>>> mrestelli at cuebiq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi guys,
>>>>>>>>> we’re experiencing issues about JWT access_token size and we were
>>>>>>>>> planning
>>>>>>>>> to remove the “roles” claim as a default, so to remove the claim
>>>>>>>>> from the
>>>>>>>>> access_token. Once we do that, the KC adapter / policy enforcer
>>>>>>>>> returns a
>>>>>>>>> 403. So at this point, does the access_token must have the roles
>>>>>>>>> inside it?
>>>>>>>>> Or it’s another problem which is giving us the 403?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thank you!
>>>>>>>>> Matteo
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
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