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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I’m slightly confused as to the lifetime of a flake.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Reading below what I think you are saying is the following:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Flake is inserted<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Activations are created<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Flake is kind-of retracted<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">4.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Activations triggered by flake are then fired<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">5.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Activations carry on usual.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Consider the rules:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Rule 1
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> Flake()<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Not Foo()<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Then<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> Insert(new Foo());<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">End<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Rule 2
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> Flake()<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Foo()<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Then<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> Print(“Flake for foo”);<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">end<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If my understanding is correct (doubtful) then only rule 1 would trigger – by rule 2 the flake has already gone? Or have I got this totally wrong?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I think my gut expectation was that they would stay until fireAllRules had completed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thomas<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> rules-dev-bounces@lists.jboss.org [mailto:rules-dev-bounces@lists.jboss.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mark Proctor<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 12 August 2011 14:40<br>
<b>To:</b> rules-dev@lists.jboss.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [rules-dev] [rules-users] What would you call a Fact that is only evaluated once?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 12/08/2011 12:10, Wolfgang Laun wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It's also a little dangerous.<br>
<br>
Consider that two or more rules should be firing with a flake. If it's already out of WM at the time the first one fires, you can't do a modify, e.g., for controlling the firing of the other rules, or simply for passing them some data via the flake.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Flake's cannot be modified as they will not exist in the WM by the time by the time the rule fires. Flakes must be considered "final" and immutable such that the rule can still fire on them though.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Also, a query run from the RHS of any rule with a flake would not show the flake, which is surprising.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">A flake would never show up in a query no.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Event handling would need to be adapted - certainly the melting of a flake would have to be reported to a listener, probably with an appropriate indication.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We can probably add a new enum for this special retraction.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
What happens if one inserts two or more flakes in a row?<br>
<br>
Can you collect or accumulate flakes?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">You can, but it would result in no change. The object is inserted and then retracted straight away, resulting in no change on the accumulate. The only difference is we leave the resulting conflict available to fire.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
A logical insert of a fact in a RHS of a rule firing with a flake is pointless.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">the flake would never be able to falsify the logical insertion, although other facts in the match can still do so. But users would definitely neeed to be aware of that.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Well, could be that "djinn" would be even better: it comes, creates mischief and disappears again...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">:)<br>
<br>
What we are trying to achieve is the abilty for users to insert objects into WM and not have to worry about retracting them. While this is similar to events, it's not quite the same, as the retraction of events is not enforced if it's matched against.<br>
<br>
Definitely room some more thought on this one, I think it would be a nice use case, if we can make sure we get it right.<br>
<br>
Mark<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
-W<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 12 August 2011 12:45, Mark Proctor <<a href="mailto:mproctor@codehaus.org">mproctor@codehaus.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 12/08/2011 11:22, Wolfgang Laun wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">One term (probably too long) would be "interjection".<br>
<br>
A more pictorial word is "flake", which (thinking of snowflake) provides an inkling for the fast fade away.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The context here is I'm working on an adventure game. You insert commands, the engine evaluates what to do with them, then you retract it again. Once the initial conflict set is evaluated there is no more use for the fact, and you end with
redundant rules. I'd rather declare @liftetime(flake) @liftetime(durable) and have the engine handle that, or something along those lines/terms. Grindwork also adds something slightly different called "consume" for handling similar situations:<br>
<a href="http://www.grindwork.com/site/node/6" target="_blank">http://www.grindwork.com/site/node/6</a><br>
"This rule fires when those conditions in the 'when' clause become true. When they become true, the "consume" causes the removal of the client message and the old alias (if one was set). The "rising" actions add (+ means add to the knowledge base) facts. One
fact is the new alias, and the other is that an alias has changed. The alias changed fact allows others rules to notify people in the channel that the alias changed."<br>
<br>
<br>
Currently how Commands are handled:<br>
rule invalidMove no-loop when<br>
$c : MoveCommand($d : direction)<br>
$h : Here( $l : location)<br>
not ?connect( $d, $l; ) <br>
then<br>
System.out.println( <a href="http://rule.name" target="_blank">rule.name</a> + ':' + $c );<br>
end<br>
<br>
rule validMove no-loop when<br>
$c : MoveCommand($d : direction)<br>
$h : Here( $l : location)<br>
exists ?connect( $d, $l; ) <br>
then<br>
System.out.println( <a href="http://rule.name" target="_blank">rule.name</a> + ':' + $c );<br>
insert( new ExitEvent( $l ) );<br>
insert( new EnterEvent( $d ) );<br>
System.out.println( $d );<br>
modify( $h ) { location = $d };<br>
end<br>
<br>
rule retractCommand salience -100 when<br>
$c : Command()<br>
then<br>
retract( $c );<br>
end <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
-W<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 12 August 2011 12:00, Mark Proctor <<a href="mailto:mproctor@codehaus.org" target="_blank">mproctor@codehaus.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">What would you call a fact that is inserted once and the conflict set<br>
computed (the rules that can fire). The fact is then retracted so no<br>
more matches can take place, but the conflict set itself is allowed to<br>
fire (assuming their other facts remain true).<br>
<br>
I think this is quite a common use case and most users will handle this<br>
via a lower salience and retracting the fact manually, but I think it's<br>
useful enough to build in as a keyword on type declaration. We just need<br>
a name for it :)<br>
<br>
Mark<br>
<br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
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