[rules-users] Large number of rules in Drools
Shweta1986
shweta.a.thakkar at gmail.com
Mon Jan 16 16:26:05 EST 2012
Can someone please look into this. Would really appreciate some help with
these questions.
2012/1/11 Shweta Turakhia <shweta.a.thakkar at gmail.com>
> Thanks for your replies. Please see my response inline
> My intention to use guvnor was to let non technical person go and change
> the rules. But due to the size of the file and drl format it is difficult
> for them to first search the rule and then edit it, save it and build it.
>
> Also since now my rules are in drl format there is no easy way to convert
> them to excel format. Since that will make the file smaller with just 20K
> rows which can be easily uploaded.
> Please suggest.
>
>
> "Thousands" of lines of DRL in a single file represent an issue not just
> to Guvnor but to anything handling it.
> >> Agreed. But if you provide a way to upload drl file as it is it would
> not be that bad right?
>
> The recommendation would be to split the DRL into individual rules,
> resulting of thousands of assets in Guvnor.
> >> This takes more than 20 minutes and times out.
>
>
> The next question would be if you have "thousands" of similar rules why
> not use a singe Template or Decision Table?
> Having said that, using a Template or Decision table in Guvnor with
> "thousands" of rows could exhibit a problem at present.
> Both of the editors in Guvnor do not scale well past a few thousand. This
> is a known issue and we have an open item to address given time.
> >> Can you please point me to the jira item for this ? I would like to
> look into it.
>
> Using an Excel based decision table loaded into Guvnor would be workable,
> however the compilation time to build a binary package may be an issue (I
> don't know).
> >> For me 20K rules got saved once but they never got built. I always get
> "Network error" It times out since the browser is idle for more time.
>
>
> 1) Guvnor needs more that 2.5GB Ram => Go to 64 bits java (we have 5GB
> heap)
> 2) Building the binary on guvnor on a virtual environment takes a few
> minutes (4 minutes in our case)
> >> For me build fails as mentioned earlier. It says "Network" error" I
> never got this error when my rules were 100. With number of rules
> increasing I think it takes more time to build and on the UI it times out.
>
> 3) For the runtime, the rulebase to build is less then 1 minute when
> getting the rulebase from guvnor
> 4) We are using decision tables updated from remote, so to view them the
> only way is to download via rest the decision table xml et edit it.
> >> Is there any documentation available as how to do this ?
>
> 5) Performance are excellent, for one session execution, it takes 250 ms
> to apply 300 rules again in a virtual environement.
> >> I agree for me it is less than 100 ms for each request. But since I am
> using the Resource Change Scanner whenever my rules change the response
> time increases to 40 seconds for 15 minutes and comes back to normal after
> that. I also had to increase the heap size for my application to 3GB
> otherwise it was having memory issues due to the number of rules in memory.
>
>
> 2012/1/11 Nicolas Héron [via Drools] <
> ml-node+s46999n3650237h85 at n3.nabble.com>
>
> Hello,
>> I just worked on a drools project with many thousands rules (100k). The
>> project is now in production.
>> the issues are :
>> 1) Guvnor needs more that 2.5GB Ram => Go to 64 bits java (we have 5GB
>> heap)
>> 2) Building the binary on guvnor on a virtual environment takes a few
>> minutes (4 minutes in our case)
>> 3) For the runtime, the rulebase to build is less then 1 minute when
>> getting the rulebase from guvnor
>> 4) We are using decision tables updated from remote, so to view them the
>> only way is to download via rest the decision table xml et edit it.
>> 5) Performance are excellent, for one session execution, it takes 250 ms
>> to apply 300 rules again in a virtual environement.
>> I would like to know which JIRA is related to the issues in guvnor when
>> there are many lines ?
>> Regards
>> Nicolas Héron
>>
>> 2012/1/11 Michael Anstis <[hidden email]<http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3650237&i=0>
>> >
>>
>> "Thousands" of lines of DRL in a single file represent an issue not just
>>> to Guvnor but to anything handling it.
>>>
>>> The recommendation would be to split the DRL into individual rules,
>>> resulting of thousands of assets in Guvnor.
>>>
>>> The next question would be if you have "thousands" of similar rules why
>>> not use a singe Template or Decision Table?
>>>
>>> Having said that, using a Template or Decision table in Guvnor with
>>> "thousands" of rows could exhibit a problem at present.
>>>
>>> Both of the editors in Guvnor do not scale well past a few thousand.
>>> This is a known issue and we have an open item to address given time.
>>>
>>> Using an Excel based decision table loaded into Guvnor would be
>>> workable, however the compilation time to build a binary package may be an
>>> issue (I don't know).
>>>
>>> 2012/1/10 Shweta1986 <[hidden email]<http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3650237&i=1>
>>> >
>>>
>>>> I can look into the solution of writing my own Java application for
>>>> this solution. But I would still like to understand, if the problem is just
>>>> because of the 3 values being checked in the rules ? Do complex rules dont
>>>> have more than 1 checks ?
>>>> If yes then this case should be supported no matter how simple the rule
>>>> is right ?
>>>>
>>>> Also for the UI issue I mentioned. Assume some other complex rules. Is
>>>> copying the thousands of lines in the text area not a problem in guvnor ?
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 12:38 PM, laune [via Drools] <[hidden email]<http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3649201&i=0>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Assuming that the remaining 19998 rules are of the same kind, there is
>>>>> a lot of data in these rules, and only very little logic. Ignoring the
>>>>> issue of "Olympia" being one of the cities not being "Seattle", we have the
>>>>> problem of matching a triplet of <field,state,city> from a Student fact so
>>>>> that we can store one or more Subjects in Student.subjects.
>>>>>
>>>>> Imagine that you have objects of type Inscribe containing a triplet of
>>>>> field, state, city and the pertaining List<Subject>. Then you could write a
>>>>> single (!) rule
>>>>>
>>>>> rule register
>>>>> when
>>>>> $stu: Student ( $f: field, $s: state, $c: city )
>>>>> $ins: Inscribe( field==$f, state==$s, city==$c )
>>>>> then
>>>>> $stu.setSubjects( $ins.getSubjects() );
>>>>> end
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW: Why do you use equals with state? Using "==" should be possible
>>>>> here, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> And, of course, matching ~20000 different triplets to facts of a
>>>>> single type isn't really RBS fodder. You can design a simple Java program
>>>>> that achieves this goal, assuming you can come up with a straightforward
>>>>> representation of the <field,state,city;subject+> mapping.
>>>>>
>>>>> -W
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2012/1/10 Shweta1986 <[hidden email]<http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3648792&i=0>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> My rules are as follows.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> rule "rule1"
>>>>>> salience -2
>>>>>> dialect "mvel"
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> stud : Student ( field == "ARTS", state.equals("WA"))
>>>>>> then
>>>>>> java.util.List subList = new java.util.ArrayList();
>>>>>> Subject subject = new Subject();
>>>>>> subject.setName("ABC");
>>>>>> subject.setFees(33454);
>>>>>> subject.duration(4);
>>>>>> subList.add(subject);
>>>>>>
>>>>>> subject = new Subject();
>>>>>> subject.setName("XYZ");
>>>>>> subject.setFees(33454);
>>>>>> subject.duration(4);
>>>>>> subList.add(subject);
>>>>>>
>>>>>> stud.setSubjects(subList);
>>>>>> end
>>>>>> rule "rule2"
>>>>>> salience -100
>>>>>> dialect "mvel"
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> stud : Student ( field == "ARTS", state.equals("WA") , city ==
>>>>>> "SEATTLE"))
>>>>>> then
>>>>>> java.util.List subList = new java.util.ArrayList();
>>>>>> Subject subject = new Subject();
>>>>>> subject.setName("ABC");
>>>>>> subject.setFees(33454);
>>>>>> subject.duration(4);
>>>>>> subList.add(subject);
>>>>>>
>>>>>> subject = new Subject();
>>>>>> subject.setName("XYZ");
>>>>>> subject.setFees(33454);
>>>>>> subject.duration(4);
>>>>>> subList.add(subject);
>>>>>>
>>>>>> stud.setSubjects(subList);
>>>>>> end
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Student is the main object and it contains List of Subjects. here the
>>>>>> way I am using the salience because
>>>>>> if the input us shweta, ARTS, WA,Olympia it matched rule1
>>>>>> but if the input is shweta, ARTS, WA, Seattle it matches 1 and 2 but
>>>>>> i want the rule 2 to be executed so salience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am using StatelessKnowledge Session and also the resource change
>>>>>> scanner.
>>>>>> I execute one rule at a time and the scanner poll interval is 1 hour.
>>>>>> When I started with 100 rules I was using "PK" as my source in
>>>>>> changeSet.xml but when the rules grew to 20K I was not able to build the
>>>>>> rules in Guvnor UI and hence I started using "DRL" as source.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The way I generate drl is using a script which converts the csv to
>>>>>> drl format.
>>>>>> I copy the drl to the text area in techincal rules and save it. (
>>>>>> this copy is also paiful so I asked that if there is an upload drl file
>>>>>> unlike the import drl file)
>>>>>> In changeset I give the path to the url in webdav
>>>>>> /guvnor/org.drools.guvnor.Guvnor/webdav/packages/StudentRules/StudentRules.drl
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not sure if I am doing it the right way. Please suggest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Shweta
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 11:58 PM, laune [via Drools] <[hidden email]<http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3648661&i=0>
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Salience is just one way to force the evaluation of a condition
>>>>>>> before others. In fact, using salience throughout is just a way of
>>>>>>> re-creating a sequence of plain old if statements using a rules engine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not going to waste my time and yours by elaborating on possible
>>>>>>> alternatives unless you come up with a detailed description of your rules,
>>>>>>> and how you run your rules engine: fact insertion, calls to fire, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -W
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2012/1/10 Shweta1986 <[hidden email]<http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3647015&i=0>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am not sure I understand that. What is the other option for this
>>>>>>>> case. Why would simple rules not work for 20 K rules. Am I missing
>>>>>>>> something. I cannot use database to store my rules. Drools also gives me
>>>>>>>> salience which I need for my usecase.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 11:29 PM, laune [via Drools] <[hidden email]<http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3646449&i=0>
>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2012/1/6 Shweta1986 <[hidden email]<http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3637255&i=0>
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And my rules are very simple it is like if string comparison then
>>>>>>>>>> set that's it..
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This doesn't really warrant the use of a rule based system. If
>>>>>>>>> keeping this logic out of the application or an easy maintenance of these
>>>>>>>>> if-then's are your main goals, there are other ways. I've already hinted at
>>>>>>>>> this, with the idea of providing the information embedded in similar rules
>>>>>>>>> as data.
>>>>>>>>> -W
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>> View this message in context: Re: [rules-users] Large number of
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> View this message in context: Re: [rules-users] Large number of
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
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>> Nicolas Héron
>>
>>
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