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keithnielsen wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:20428373.post@talk.nabble.com" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Mark,
Do you have plans to support the persistence of workflows/rule flows (or
maybe its already there and I am missing it). Seems this is one area that
BPM team has put alot of their energies.
</pre>
</blockquote>
This is working in Drools 5.0 - we support transactions and persistence
of sessions. There is also task management, based on WS-HumanTask, the
backend is now solid but we still need to do more for the front end.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:20428373.post@talk.nabble.com" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
I would also agree that its terribly confusing to companies like mine who
are moving into the BPM/Rules space to have two solutions from the same
organization with no apparent strategy to consolidate them.
</pre>
</blockquote>
Agreed, definitely confusing. But our only other choice was to not do
it at all. I hope that once people start looking into what we've
produced (especially once we have more documentation) they will be glad
that we did push ahead with what we have, and realise that our passion
for this was justified. This isn't just another BPM product, it's a lot
more than that.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:20428373.post@talk.nabble.com" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
Thanks
Mark Proctor wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:benjamin@romney.dk">benjamin@romney.dk</a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">After looking at jbpm and drools I got a bit confused. It seems like
drools can do the same kind of work as e.g. jbpm bpel using rule flow and
work items. I am just wondering why I should bother learning jbpm when
drools are available.
Can someone please enlighten me on this matter?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Yes jBPM3 and proposed jBPM4(schedueld for summer 2009) are indeed
subsets of the Drools5 functionality. Drools5 Flow offers a richer set
of nodes to model with and to support workflow design patterns. We also
have out of the box rule integration, this is especially powerful with
the new Complex Event Processing work we have done, which can be added
to Event nodes or Wait nodes in the Flow for monitoring of streams.
The reason for this is the jBPM team and Drools team have to different
approaches for workflow. jBPM has a more conservative, stick with what
you know, process centric approach to the problem domain. Where as the
Drools team does not believe a process or rule centric approach is the
future, instead we need a declarative modelling approach where rules and
processes and event processing are all first class citizens with deep
integration and unified apis and deployment mechanisms.
The jBPM team believe our use cases too complex, they do not see the
need for a unified api nor of a single way of doing deployment or server
side management. For us moving away from process centric or rule
centric, and allowing the problem to be modelled as the user feels fit
is the more natural way and indeed some vendors (pega systems) have gone
this way.
What do I mean by uniformity of API? Well look how Drools and jBPM
create their sessions now, very different, you have to learn everything
twice and learning one does not help learning the other - there is
simply no consistency. In Drools5 we have a new api that provides this
uniformity as so:
// Get your builder
KnowledgeBuilder kbuilder = KnowledgeBuilderFactory.newKnowledgeBuilder();
// Keep adding the resources that make up this KnowledgePackage
kbuilder.addResource( urlToProcess );
kbuilder.addResource( urlToRules );
Collection<KnowledgePackage> pkgs =kbuilder.getKnowledgePackages(); //
returns pkgs a deployable unit containing all your rules and processes
KnowledgeBase kbase = KnowledgeBaseFactory.newKnowledgeBase(); // create
the single knowledgebase that can contain rule and process defintions
StatefulKnowledgeSession session = kbase.newStatefulKnowledgeSession();
// create your runtime session
session.startProcess( "my process" ); // starts a process
session.runUntilHalt(); // engine will continually evaluate all inserted
objects, can also still use fireAllRules
session.insert( myObject ); // inserts an object into rule engine session
So as you can see from the above the uniformity provides consistency and
intuitiveness across the too paradigms. Where as learning jBPM and
Drools now is twice the effort, here if you learn the one you are very
much close to learning the other. Also our flows, likes rules, can be
managed and deployed from Guvnor our BRMS. What will the future hold?
for jBPM and Drools? The Drools team have tried to do this jointly, but
we couldn't agree on a joint vision, so currently there is no
integration strategy for jBPM and Drools as they follow different
paradigms (process-centric vs. unification of rules, processes, and
event processing). As such, if a "stronger" paradigm of the two emerges
at some point in the future, we can get the two teams to start working
on this stronger paradigm in a joint effort - either way the future of
jBPM and Drools Flow will be decided by you people, the end user.
The new api will be in M3, which we are hoping to get out any day now,
so please do checkout Drools Flow then. The pluggable domain specific
work items for process modelling are particularly nice. After Drools 5.0
we will focus on a p2p agent infrastucture and api, which will
facilitate distributed working and also remoting (which can be used for
management and web based consoles, among other things). Again this will
benefit from finding one generic way to do this, that applies to all.
So if you like what we are doing, and think this is the way things
should go, please do support us.
Mark
</pre>
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<pre wrap="">
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</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
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