<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Bodoni SvtyTwo SC ITC TT";
panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\0027Bodoni SvtyTwo SC ITC TT\0027";
panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:Garamond;
panose-1:2 2 4 4 3 3 1 1 8 3;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\0027Lucida Handwriting\0027";
panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.apple-style-span
{mso-style-name:apple-style-span;}
span.E-MailFormatvorlage18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page Section1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 2.0cm 70.85pt;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=DE link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hey James. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>You should think less technical and more in that (I guess you will
hate it) Business-IT-Alignment. Using Excel or DSL to specify business rules,
so extract it from code and make it readable by non technical people. That’s the
goal!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>And Drools is a good tool for this job (and it is one of the
goals, look at Guvnor and the BRMS), even if the problem doesn’t really need
RETE algorithms and such.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Bernd<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Von:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
rules-users-bounces@lists.jboss.org
[mailto:rules-users-bounces@lists.jboss.org] <b>Im Auftrag von </b>James Owen<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag, 10. Oktober 2009 09:03<br>
<b>An:</b> Rules Users List<br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [rules-users] Better way to run each rule once?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>[Warning: This email may contain heretical thoughts.
Read at your own risk.] <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Again, not knowing all of the facts and project
requirements, I can only say that, so far, it sounds like a great problem for
Java or C or C++. I prefer C++ to Java and C but that's a personal thing
based on not needing to have "Java Expert" on my CV in order to get a
job. (I do know Java and started with it way back in 1997 with version
0.9x but I don't consider myself an expert yet.) <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The CLIPS rulebase is still the fastest bare-bones expert
system except for OPSJ and TECH. In addition, we have lots of experienced
C++ programmers in the world and if we run low on C++ programmers then the Java
programmers can be taught proper coding techniques and threading procedures not
being used today. [See? I told you it was heresy.] I wonder
if Drools could be re-written in C++ ?? Sounds like a great project to
me. :-)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I say things like this, sometimes in jest and sometimes not,
so that we, the techie programmers and developers, would stop and think about
what we're doing and why. Do we really need to have "Rulebase
Programmer" on our CV so badly that we would use it where it is not
needed? I have seen rulebased systems used the wrong way on many projects
and I just had to walk away. But, enough philosophy for one evening.
Think about it and consider your own personal integrity - if you do
you'll probably find yourself out of a job but you'll be happier while standing
in the unemployment line and wondering "WHY?? Why didn't I just keep
my big mouth SHUT??". <grin><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>SDG<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>James Owen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>Founder October
Rules Fest<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>Senior Consultant
/ Architect KBSC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;
font-family:"Bodoni SvtyTwo SC ITC TT","serif";color:#976635'><a
href="http://www.kbsc.com">http://www.kbsc.com</a></span></span><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;
font-family:"Bodoni SvtyTwo SC ITC TT","serif";color:#976635'><a
href="http://www.OctoberRulesFest.org">http://www.OctoberRulesFest.org</a></span></span><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"'Bodoni SvtyTwo SC ITC TT'","serif";
color:#976635'>Twitter: OctRulesFest</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif";
color:blue'>Blogs:</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif";
color:blue'><a href="http://JavaRules.blogspot.com">http://JavaRules.blogspot.com</a>
[Rulebased Systems Blog]</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif";
color:blue'><a href="http://ORF2009.blogspot.com">http://ORF2009.blogspot.com</a>
[October Rules Fest Blog]</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif";
color:blue'><a href="http://exscg.blogspot.com/">http://exscg.blogspot.com/</a>
[Expert Systems Consulting Group Blog]</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><i><span style='font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:"'Lucida Handwriting'","serif";color:blue'>"If I have seen a
little further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."</span></i></span><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><b><span style='font-size:10.5pt;
color:black'>Sir Isaac Newton in a letter to Robert Hooke, 5 Feb 1676</span></b></span><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;
color:black'>Come to October Rules Fest and stand on the shoulders of the
Giants of the industry; if only for a week.</span></b></span><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'><br>
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Oct 9, 2009, at 8:13 PM, Dave Schweisguth wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>James,<br>
<br>
On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 06:28:21PM -0500, James Owen wrote:<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>[...] The whole thing "sounds like" a procedural
problem where values are<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>modified and rules are fired only once. [...]<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
You're right, and I've felt bad about using this very powerful system in<br>
such a limited way. Nonetheless Drools feels like an excellent fit for us:<br>
we do have the requirement of having rules editable by non-engineers, and<br>
Drools provides all of the structure around that that we'd otherwise have<br>
had to come up with, plus a lot of room to grow. I've actually been<br>
wondering whether anyone would suggest a way to solve the problem by<br>
designing the rules and/or facts differently!<br>
<br>
I also left out various complications: we have other classes of facts on<br>
the LHS, and Thing's attributes appear on the LHS as well as its<br>
unmodifiable properties. I considered a design where attributes were first-<br>
class facts, but it seemed to run in to the same problem. I don't think any<br>
of that goes against your basic point, however. What I wonder is whether it's<br>
an inappropriate problem for the tool or merely inexpert use of the tool.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
-- <br>
| Dave Schweisguth
<a
href="http://schweisguth.org/~dave/">http://schweisguth.org/~dave/</a> |<br>
| Home: dave at schweisguth.org
Work: <a
href="http://www.nileguide.com/">http://www.nileguide.com/</a> |<br>
| For compliance with the NJ Right to Know Act: Contents partially unknown |<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
rules-users mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:rules-users@lists.jboss.org">rules-users@lists.jboss.org</a><br>
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>