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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Maybe we can chat about it sometime in IRC. There is a chance I’ll be able to get some dev effort on something like that in Q2 that we could contribute back
(no promises though). Ping me if you have a minute.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> rules-users-bounces@lists.jboss.org [mailto:rules-users-bounces@lists.jboss.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael Anstis<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 06, 2014 8:25 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Rules Users List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [rules-users] Some basic questions/assumptions on Drools Work-bench/Guvnor<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">> ...build some rule lifecycle management into the workbench itself</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">This is on our road map.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 6 March 2014 15:08, Joe White <<a href="mailto:Joe.White@recondotech.com" target="_blank">Joe.White@recondotech.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">On the topic of #7.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">We are just adopting the Drools 6.x setup to achieve the goal you mention of business users creating
and deploying business rules on their own. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The challenge is allowing your users to deploy in a targeted way since the drools workbench (DWB)
doesn’t have the concept of a deployment scope (dev, stage, prod). Here is my current thinking on managing lifecycle in 6.x:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-indent:.25in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Application Setup:</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Create separate maven repositories for SNAPSHOT vs fixed version deployments and point your installed applications to those different repositories.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D">o</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">KIEScanners in test applications will point to snapshot versions.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D">o</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">KIEScanners in prod will point to version ranges like
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">[1.3.0, 1.4.999]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Developers design and create package structure. Very important since a new Project in the DWB will require a software release</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Developers design and create decision tables or guided rules for business users.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.25in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Business User SDLC flow:</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.75in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">User creates new rules in decision tables
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.75in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">User validates new rules and runs analysis on rules in the DWB</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.75in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">When a user wants to test their rules they create a snapshot from the DWB and deploy it . Jar gets deployed to only the snapshot repo</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.75in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">User tests their new rules in the stage system (auto picked up from KIEScanner)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.75in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Once they are happy they remove the SNAPSHOT designation, increment version, and deploy to prod (all in DWB)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.75in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Users tests their new rules in prod (auto picked up from KIEScanner)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">A relatively sophisticated business user should be able to manage versioning in the DWB with a little
training. I’m looking for other options as well if people have any. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Once we are successful with this I suspect we may try and build some rule lifecycle management into
the workbench itself and contribute it back. But it is a longer term project. </span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:rules-users-bounces@lists.jboss.org" target="_blank">rules-users-bounces@lists.jboss.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:rules-users-bounces@lists.jboss.org" target="_blank">rules-users-bounces@lists.jboss.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael Anstis<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 05, 2014 1:27 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Rules Users List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [rules-users] Some basic questions/assumptions on Drools Work-bench/Guvnor</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>6) Incorrect (well, almost.. read on). "Real time" would imply instant, zero latency, whereas for many use cases "close to real time" is often sufficient. If you read about KieScanner you will find you can have your application poll for updates to JARs*
at a frequency you so desire.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>(*) There are certain caveats that relate to standard maven best practice; for example if your JAR has a static version number (e.g. 1.0.0) you should not be changing its content (wheras a -SNAPSHOT is expected to change).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>7) Drools itself does not impose any SDLC; you can use whatever you wish. Others who have used Drools in their applications may detail their experiences.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Sent on the move<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On 5 Mar 2014 19:58, "arvidj" <<a href="mailto:arvidj@visi.com" target="_blank">arvidj@visi.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Sorry for follow-on basic questions. I am starting from scratch and therefore<br>
do not have any Drools experience.<br>
<br>
Already answered ...<br>
<br>
1) Drools workbench/Guvnor is not a replacement for Eclipse.* - Correct*<br>
2) Geeks like me develop the applications in Eclipse* - Correct*<br>
3) Drools workbench will be mainly used by the Rule authors (Business<br>
Analysts etc) once I set it up for them.* - Correct*<br>
4) The anslysts will author the rules and test it in the workbench.* -<br>
Correct*<br>
5) They will build the DRLs into a jar and I include it as a dependency in<br>
my POM.xml.* - Correct*<br>
<br>
Additional questions because I am new to Drools<br>
<br>
6) Based on the answer to (5) the concept of "real time rule replacement"<br>
does not exist. After the rules jar has been put into the Maven repository I<br>
need to build my application and deploy it ... i.e. stop the currently<br>
running application, remove it, install the new application and restart it.<br>
<br>
7) If someone can point me at high level documentation related to "the<br>
complete Drools 6.0 rule software development lifecycle" ... i.e. from rule<br>
creation to actually executing in a production environment ... I would<br>
appreciate it.<br>
<br>
I have been asked to do a Proof of Concept. There is the impression I will<br>
be able to prove that "the business will be able to create their own rules<br>
and deploy them into production without any IT intervention". I do not<br>
believe this to be the case ... best SDLC practices not withstanding ... but<br>
have not been able to find a Drools SDLC picture that shows all of the steps<br>
necessary.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Arvid<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
View this message in context: <a href="http://drools.46999.n3.nabble.com/Some-basic-questions-assumptions-on-Drools-Work-bench-Guvnor-tp4028509p4028546.html" target="_blank">
http://drools.46999.n3.nabble.com/Some-basic-questions-assumptions-on-Drools-Work-bench-Guvnor-tp4028509p4028546.html</a><br>
Sent from the Drools: User forum mailing list archive at Nabble.com.<br>
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