[wildfly-dev] HTTP/2 out of the box in Wildfly 10.1
Darran Lofthouse
darran.lofthouse at jboss.com
Tue Jun 7 07:32:57 EDT 2016
On 07/06/16 12:24, Jason T. Greene wrote:
> Long term I think we want management using TLS, but that can of course
> come in phases. Assuming 2) is one of those phases to come (either now
> or later), a following step is that the CLI, and really any remoting
> client, should prefer TLS with a defaulted trust store location that
> points to the keystore.
>
> With 2) if we have the default of the attribute that forces redirect be
> true, and our default config be false, then someone that carries over
> their old config would not have a potential security weakness. If they
> have a CLI script that adds the https port, it will fail, hopefully
> sending a signal to look. Although, the user might just assume that oh
> it's there, I don't have to do anything.
>
> Another interesting thing about 2 is that IIRC we have conflicting
> behavior between the app port which doesn't force upgrade and the
> management port which does.
In applications you configure which paths require a confidential
transport guarantee so you can be selective.
For managements all requests come over a single path so if you switch on
SSL why not use it for the one and only path containing your sensitive
requests.
> So my preference is 2, because at some point we have to do it anyway,
> and if we have TLS out of the box might as well use it.
>
> On Jun 6, 2016, at 10:48 PM, Stuart Douglas <stuart.w.douglas at gmail.com
> <mailto:stuart.w.douglas at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> So while implementing this I have noticed a potential problem that it
>> would be good to get some feedback on.
>>
>> If the management interface has SSL by default then the HTTP interface
>> will always redirect to the HTTPS interface. This effectively breaks
>> the management API, as clients such as the CLI, Arquillian etc will be
>> redirected to HTTPS, and then reject the self signed certificate (as
>> they should).
>>
>> I am not sure what to do about this, these are the options as I see them:
>>
>> 1) Don't enable SSL for the management interface (just for the
>> Undertow subsystem). The management interface can still use this
>> auto-generation capability, it just won't be enable by default (we
>> could even leave the cert in the security domain, but just not enable
>> the https interface).
>>
>> 2) Disable automatic redirects for HTTP upgrade requests (potentially
>> controlled by an attribute). This will allow the CLI etc to work, but
>> at the price of potentially reducing security, as some connections
>> that would have previously been redirected to use HTTPS will no longer
>> do this.
>>
>> 3) Enable it by default and leave it broken. We can setup some kind of
>> automatic trust store thing so the local CLI works, and can get our
>> test suite to work with Arquillian in a similar manner. Personally I
>> think this is a terrible idea, but I am including it for completeness.
>>
>> Personally I think we should go for 1). Given that this is supposed to
>> be about developer usability I don't think having management also use
>> SSL as being that important.
>>
>> Stuart
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 10:24 PM, Jason T. Greene
>> <jason.greene at redhat.com <mailto:jason.greene at redhat.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Awesome! Another idea I had on how we could get away with it being
>> in server boot, is to have a pre-boot first time setup task,
>> either launched from the shell/batch scripts or as a special
>> pre-step before the AS module loads. We could then report boot
>> time as the time AFTER first time installation tasks have
>> completed, which I think is fair because the server hasn't yet
>> been started.
>>
>> On Jun 5, 2016, at 11:53 PM, Stuart Douglas
>> <stuart.w.douglas at gmail.com <mailto:stuart.w.douglas at gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have some initial work on this at:
>>> https://github.com/stuartwdouglas/wildfly-core/tree/WFCORE-1576
>>>
>>> If you go to https://localhost:9993 it will generate the
>>> certificate (although all that will be served is a 404 page as
>>> the console is not installed).
>>>
>>> Stuart
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 12:46 PM, Stuart Douglas
>>> <stuart.w.douglas at gmail.com <mailto:stuart.w.douglas at gmail.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think that would actually end up being more complex.
>>>
>>> Stuart
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 12:45 PM, Jason T. Greene
>>> <jason.greene at redhat.com <mailto:jason.greene at redhat.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Another option could be a post boot task. So it's still
>>> eager but don't block completed start. We'd still need to
>>> block Tls ports though. So maybe this does not help
>>>
>>> On Jun 5, 2016, at 9:31 PM, Stuart Douglas
>>> <stuart.w.douglas at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:stuart.w.douglas at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> 2048 bits adds close to a second to first boot on my
>>>> machine (obviously subsequent boots are unaffected).
>>>>
>>>> This is probably a bit much, I will work on getting a
>>>> POC for the lazy loading approach implemented.
>>>>
>>>> Stuart
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 12:27 PM, Jason T. Greene
>>>> <jason.greene at redhat.com
>>>> <mailto:jason.greene at redhat.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> We should really be generating 2048 bit keys.
>>>>
>>>> I don't like adding to our boot time, we have
>>>> already seen it grow and this would be yet another case.
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 5, 2016, at 8:57 PM, Stuart Douglas
>>>> <stuart.w.douglas at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:stuart.w.douglas at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So I just did up a very quick prototype that
>>>>> generates self signed certificates on startup and
>>>>> it looks like the difference in startup time is
>>>>> negligible (at least when generating 1024 bit RSA
>>>>> keys). Even if the difference is measurable it only
>>>>> affects the very first startup.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that in order to simplify the
>>>>> implementation of this it may be better to simply
>>>>> generate the key of first startup, instead of
>>>>> attempting to do it lazily.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stuart
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 12:09 AM, Jason T. Greene
>>>>> <jason.greene at redhat.com
>>>>> <mailto:jason.greene at redhat.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> What will be default keysize? It has to be
>>>>>> probably choosen to work also without
>>>>>> "Java Cryptography Extension (JCE)
>>>>>> Unlimited Strength Jurisdiction Policy"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Probably the largest that is supported without
>>>>>> JCE. It does not matter that much, self signed
>>>>>> certs are inherently insecure, this is a
>>>>>> developer usability feature, not something
>>>>>> that can be used in production.
>>>>>
>>>>> IIRC there is actually no limit on RSA key
>>>>> size, it's only symmetric algs that are
>>>>> limited, so we could use a standard 2048 bit
>>>>> key without issue.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stuart
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 10:01 PM, Stuart
>>>>>> Douglas <stuart.w.douglas at gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:stuart.w.douglas at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I guess we should talk about how
>>>>>> this should actually work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In terms of auto generating the key I
>>>>>> was thinking we would need to add a
>>>>>> new attribute to the 'keystore'
>>>>>> element under the security realm,
>>>>>> something like
>>>>>> 'auto-generate-cert-host="localhost"'.
>>>>>> I am not sure what other options we
>>>>>> would need, or how configurable we
>>>>>> should make it, but as this is for
>>>>>> testing/development purposes I don't
>>>>>> think we need to expose full control
>>>>>> over the certificate generation process.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In terms of the implementation we
>>>>>> could just implement an SSLContext
>>>>>> wrapper, that can do the generation
>>>>>> and then create a 'real' SSLContext
>>>>>> the first time it is asked to create
>>>>>> and SSLEngine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stuart
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 3:19 AM, Jason
>>>>>> Greene <jason.greene at redhat.com
>>>>>> <mailto:jason.greene at redhat.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > On Jun 2, 2016, at 11:29 AM, Harold Campbell <hcamp at muerte.net
>>>>>> <mailto:hcamp at muerte.net>> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Thu, 2016-06-02 at 09:22 +1000, Stuart Douglas wrote:
>>>>>> >> Hi All,
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> I would like to propose that we add support for HTTP/2 out of the box
>>>>>> >> in Wildfly 10.1.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > This lowly user desperately wants a release containing the fix to WFLY-
>>>>>> > 6283 sooner rather than later. I'm sure other people have other pet
>>>>>> > bugs awaiting release.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I have no opinion on HTTP/2 being added other than to ask that pent up
>>>>>> > bug fixes be kept in mind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Harold,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That fix is already in master, so
>>>>>> it will be included in 10.1.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jason T. Greene
>>>>>> WildFly Lead / JBoss EAP Platform
>>>>>> Architect
>>>>>> JBoss, a division of Red Hat
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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