[ https://issues.jboss.org/browse/ARTIF-683?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.... ] Howard Pearlmutter edited comment on ARTIF-683 at 5/7/15 7:10 PM: ------------------------------------------------------------------ Hey Brett, this is JBoss land -- and the open standard for this kind of thing is JPA :) Use JPA, which wraps HibernateORM etc, and then any RDBMS can be plugged in behind that. Then Hiberante OGM comes essentially for free. That lets you use the same JPA interface, but plug NoSQL DBs in behind. Then consider that the reason for Artificer using JCR ought to be less about hierarchical structure, and more about the already-well-architected rich support for content/documents/artifacts. Many potential Artificer users (such as myself) will want that extra functionality (for example, I want my SRAMP content to cohabit with my non-SRAMP content, and be able to write code to exploit colocation synergies, and to exploit JCR/Modeshape functionality.) Modeshape has very rich relational and network capability (internally it's has a generalized graph topology, not just hierarchical), and is a much higher level developer interface onto both relational and filesystem abstractions -- so your whole argument really only boils down to a matter of runtime efficiencies (storage space & execution speed). I've worked with the JBoss ecosystem now for 15 years (since EJBoss in 1999). And I've advised many CIOs, architects, and developers on questions like this. I strongly suggest you see Artificer as a relatively high level functional application platform for business organizations and technical organizations, rather than yet-another-lower-level-engine (of which there are hundreds and hundreds). While space and time efficiency are always important, they don't make the top 10 list of what CIOs (should, and do) consider critical -- such as reliability, manageability, scalability, security, longevity, stability, developer ease, etc. So architect with the key longterm open standards; don't strip down and try to hotrod. Instead of stripdown hotrodding, go Architectural. Architecturally, for speed, you'll want ISPN (which, BTW, has a fast API called Hotrod ;)). Hibernate caching is done with ISPN. Modeshape sits on ISPN. ISPN can be backed with *anything* (JDBC/RDBMS, NoSQL, JClouds/S3, etc) as long as a CacheStore is written. Most importantly, stick with open standards, so you let your users (like me) make our own best decision of what to put behind the standard interface. So it boils down to JPA & JCR. The real interesting point here is the opportunity to combine the 2 in an intelligent way to leverage the best of each. Side-by-side is possible, but there are other more interesting approaches to consider. JCR can back onto JPA, via ISPN CacheStore. (Tunnelling or bypassing then become options for your code that needs to get directly at relational for efficiency reasons.) JPA can back onto JCR --- for example -- https://github.com/Kobee1203/jcrom --- and then you can have nice integrity between the 2 paradigms. (&/or tunnel, or bypass, or best *tune* when you need performance) IMHO, you ought to have a chat with Randall and figure out an optimal architecture. FYI, I came to Artificer for the Errai, and stayed (so far) for the ModeShape ;) was (Author: hxp): Hey Brett, this is JBoss land -- and the open standard for this kind of thing is JPA :) Use JPA, which wraps HibernateORM etc, and then any RDBMS can be plugged in behind that. Then Hiberante OGM comes essentially for free. That lets you use the same JPA interface, but plug NoSQL DBs in behind. Then consider that the reason for Artificer using JCR ought to be less about hierarchical structure, and more about the already-well-architected rich support for content/documents/artifacts. Many potential Artificer users (such as myself) will want that extra functionality (for example, I want my SRAMP content to cohabit with my non-SRAMP content, and be able to write code to exploit colocation synergies, and to exploit JCR/Modeshape functionality.) Modeshape has very rich relational and network capability (internally it's has a generalized graph topology, not just hierarchical), and is a much higher level developer interface onto both relational and filesystem abstractions -- so your whole argument really only boils down to a matter of runtime efficiencies (storage space & execution speed). I've worked with the JBoss ecosystem now for 15 years (since EJBoss in 1999). And I've advised many CIOs, architects, and developers on questions like this. I strongly suggest you see Artificer as a relatively high level functional application platform for business organizations and technical organizations, rather than yet-another-lower-level-engine (of which there are hundreds and hundreds). While space and time efficiency are always important, they don't make the top 10 list of what CIOs (should, and do) consider critical -- such as reliability, manageability, scalability, security, longevity, stability, developer ease, etc. So architect with the key longterm open standards; don't strip down and try to hotrod. Instead of stripdown hotrodding, go Architectural. Architecturally, for speed, you'll want ISPN (which, BTW, has a fast API called Hotrod ;)). Hibernate caching is done with ISPN. Modeshape sits on ISPN. ISPN can be backed with *anything* (JDBC/RDBMS, NoSQL, JClouds/S3, etc) as long as a CacheStore is written. Most importantly, stick with open standards, so you let your users (like me) make our own best decision of what to put behind the standard interface. So it boils down to JPA & JCR. The real interesting point here is the opportunity to combine the 2 in an intelligent way to leverage the best of each. Side-by-side is possible, but there are other more interesting approaches to consider. JCR can back onto JPA, via ISPN CacheStore. (Tunnelling or bypassing then become options for your code that needs to get directly at relational for efficiency reasons.) JPA can back onto JCR --- here are a few to consider -- https://code.google.com/p/jpa4jcr https://github.com/Kobee1203/jcrom --- and then you can have nice integrity between the 2 paradigms. (&/or tunnel, or bypass, or best *tune* when you need performance) IMHO, you ought to have a chat with Randall and figure out an optimal architecture. FYI, I came to Artificer for the Errai, and stayed (so far) for the ModeShape ;) -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.3.15#6346)