+1 for Ian.
For example, i think the sfwk.org site provides the best test for performance (and capabilities ) of the Seam framework.

On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 8:14 AM, Ian Michell <ianmichell@gmail.com> wrote:
I've been watching this discussion and would like to add a couple comments. I work for a company that relies on many many different software components to make up our solution and it's a daily nightmare for me to work with as each element of my team has to focus on a different part of the system. The jboss.org CMS looks a bit slapped together (in terms of components) and based on experience can lead to a negative user experience.

One thing that everyone needs to remember is that you are building a web application framework and as such; you should be showing that off to the best of your ability... For all of it's problems the seam website is a step in the right direction because it shows that you are actually willing to use the framework you are trying to "sell" to others... In other words, "eating your own dog food". I think that everyone should calm down, take a step back and agree on where the improvements need to be and just get on and do them. I also think that the community need to be involved as well.

There is no point trying to get emotional about it as it will send out the wrong messages.

On 19 Mar 2010, at 03:40, Gavin King wrote:

> OK, fair enough, so off the top of my head, here's a list of
> requirements that I think will be difficult to support on the
> jboss.org platform.
> (1) consistent look, feel, and navigation across website and forums.
> Since the jboss.org CMS and forums are totally different software
> packages, having a consistent look/feel is going to be very difficult
> and requires the maintenance of two different sets of templates ...
> with seam wiki we get that for free. See hibernate.org for an example
> of what it should *not* look like.
> (2) a (consistent) grammar-based wiki text content format for the
> website and forums. The jboss.org forums use bbcode, which is much
> less nice than seam text, and, since it is not based on a grammar,
> cannot detect errors and instead goes off the rails and renders
> rubbish. Seam text tells you when your text is not well-formed and
> makes you fix the error. The jboss.org CMS uses mainly HTML, which is
> a nightmare format for writing and maintaining content. Apparently
> there is some suggestion that it might be able to support a seam text
> plugin, but that still only solves half the problem.
> (2.5) Syntax highlighting for code samples.
> (3) Live preview in the content editor. This saves me so much time
> it's ridiculous. Seam wiki not only renders a perfect preview of the
> content I'm editing, it also tells me exactly where I have any
> non-well-formed text.
> (4) Atom or RSS feeds, mainly for the forums, but also useful in some
> other places.
> (5) Login with one click instead of 3 (duh).
> (6) Easy to-use online document history, diffs and rollback (the
> jboss.org CMS may support this, I'm not sure).
> (7) An infrastructure which, unlike jboss.org, does not have a history
> of being regularly unavailable or down for maintenance, or in the
> process of migration to a new platform. (For example, right now, I
> can't log in on jboss.org.)
> In addition to this list of things I came up with without thinking
> very hard, we can add all the problems and limitations we're going to
> stumble upon when we actually try using the jboss.org platforms. And
> all the nice things about seamframework.org that we don't really
> appreciate until they're not there.
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