2:59 p.m.
Hey guys,
I was just discussing with Harald could get distro size down by 25+MB if we
would trim our console a bit.
Currently we compile console with 40 permutations, six browsers
(ie6,ie8,ie9,gecko1_8,safari) and eight languages
(en,de,es,fr,pt_BR,zh_Hans,ja,ko).
I think we could drop support for ie6 and get rid of extra localization
with support only EN.
IE6 market share is so low this days that it really does not make sense to
support it in upstream anymore.
Also we don't ship localization of logging messages/exceptions in WildFy
anyway, so why have just one part localized.
This way we would get down to 4 permutations and our console distro would
be 6.8Mb instead of current 32,3Mb
Also if people want extra localization, they could always just download
full console release and replace that with jar we ship.
So what do you guys think?
--
tomaz
3:06 p.m.
Am 24.02.2014 um 14:59 schrieb Tomaž Cerar <tomaz.cerar(a)gmail.com>:
Hey guys,
I was just discussing with Harald could get distro size down by 25+MB if we would trim
our console a bit.
Currently we compile console with 40 permutations, six browsers
(ie6,ie8,ie9,gecko1_8,safari) and eight languages (en,de,es,fr,pt_BR,zh_Hans,ja,ko).
I think we could drop support for ie6 and get rid of extra localization with support only
EN.
IE6 market share is so low this days that it really does not make sense to support it in
upstream anymore.
Also we don't ship localization of logging messages/exceptions in WildFy anyway, so
why have just one part localized.
This way we would get down to 4 permutations and our console distro would be 6.8Mb
instead of current 32,3Mb
Also if people want extra localization, they could always just download full console
release and replace that with jar we ship.
So what do you guys think?
Fully agreed. Besides the reduced distribution size, this would save me 20 minutes
lifetime / per full build ;-)
.: Harald
--
tomaz
_______________________________________________
wildfly-dev mailing list
wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
---
Harald Pehl
JBoss by Red Hat
http://hpehl.info
3:59 p.m.
Can't you just require specific browser implementations/versions? This
is an admin console for admins, not a user application made for your
grandma who's using the same old computer and OS version you bought her
10 years ago. Java 7 is already a requirement, can't you do the same
with a browser?
I'm asking because that's the approach we took with the Keycloak admin
console. Our user facing screens must be compatible with old browsers
where our admin console can rely on relatively modern Javascript APIs
and HTML support. Is this a bad approach to take?
Thanks
On 2/24/2014 9:06 AM, Harald Pehl wrote:
Am 24.02.2014 um 14:59 schrieb Tomaž Cerar <tomaz.cerar(a)gmail.com>:
> Hey guys,
>
> I was just discussing with Harald could get distro size down by 25+MB if we would
trim our console a bit.
>
> Currently we compile console with 40 permutations, six browsers
(ie6,ie8,ie9,gecko1_8,safari) and eight languages (en,de,es,fr,pt_BR,zh_Hans,ja,ko).
>
> I think we could drop support for ie6 and get rid of extra localization with support
only EN.
> IE6 market share is so low this days that it really does not make sense to support it
in upstream anymore.
> Also we don't ship localization of logging messages/exceptions in WildFy anyway,
so why have just one part localized.
>
> This way we would get down to 4 permutations and our console distro would be 6.8Mb
instead of current 32,3Mb
>
> Also if people want extra localization, they could always just download full console
release and replace that with jar we ship.
>
> So what do you guys think?
Fully agreed. Besides the reduced distribution size, this would save me 20 minutes
lifetime / per full build ;-)
.: Harald
>
> --
> tomaz
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
> wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
---
Harald Pehl
JBoss by Red Hat
http://hpehl.info
_______________________________________________
wildfly-dev mailing list
wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
--
Bill Burke
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
http://bill.burkecentral.com
4:31 p.m.
I'm hoping that it won't be long before the web console is a separate
download that merely connects to WildFly/EAP. At that point we would
not ship web console with the server and this won't really matter any more.
I assume that if we do trim the console, it will be for WildFly only?
That's probably a good thing but we would need to explain why the EAP
download is so much larger.
Also note that localization is not just for logging messages and
exceptions. Some DMR operations are localized too and presumably the
result does show up in the web console UI.
Stan
On 2/24/2014 8:59 AM, Tomaz( Cerar wrote:
Hey guys,
I was just discussing with Harald could get distro size down by 25+MB
if we would trim our console a bit.
Currently we compile console with 40 permutations, six browsers
(ie6,ie8,ie9,gecko1_8,safari) and eight languages
(en,de,es,fr,pt_BR,zh_Hans,ja,ko).
I think we could drop support for ie6 and get rid of extra
localization with support only EN.
IE6 market share is so low this days that it really does not make
sense to support it in upstream anymore.
Also we don't ship localization of logging messages/exceptions in
WildFy anyway, so why have just one part localized.
This way we would get down to 4 permutations and our console distro
would be 6.8Mb instead of current 32,3Mb
Also if people want extra localization, they could always just
download full console release and replace that with jar we ship.
So what do you guys think?
--
tomaz
_______________________________________________
wildfly-dev mailing list
wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
5:06 p.m.
On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 4:31 PM, Stan Silvert <ssilvert(a)redhat.com> wrote:
I'm hoping that it won't be long before the web console is a
separate
download that merely connects to WildFly/EAP. At that point we would not
ship web console with the server and this won't really matter any more.
Yes but until that is done, we can still have trimmed console.
I assume that if we do trim the console, it will be for WildFly only?
That's probably a good thing but we would need to explain why the
EAP
download is so much larger.
Yes wildfly only, why would we need to explain EAP download size, there is
so many things different in EAP that it really does not make sense to
explain details like that.
Also note that localization is not just for logging messages and
exceptions. Some DMR operations are localized too and presumably the
result does show up in the web console UI.
Yes, also DMR operations can be localized, but we don't ship translations
in WildFly but only in EAP. so again, this does not apply to wildfly as it
is right now.
--
tomaz
5:10 p.m.
Am 24.02.2014 um 15:59 schrieb Bill Burke <bburke(a)redhat.com>:
is an admin console for admins, not a user application made for your
grandma who's using the same old computer and OS version you bought her
Actually that is the real problem - it is for admins, that are not allowed to use
a modern browser because central IT invested X money in to certifying it with
whatever ridiculous internal stuff they came up with. They do not want to
re-certify with FFn+1 every 3 weeks because no one will pay them.
Grand ma on the opposite just needs to call their kids^w local tech support
to get an update installed.
5:28 p.m.
On 2/24/2014 11:10 AM, Heiko W.Rupp wrote:
Am 24.02.2014 um 15:59 schrieb Bill Burke <bburke(a)redhat.com>:
> is an admin console for admins, not a user application made for your
> grandma who's using the same old computer and OS version you bought her
Actually that is the real problem - it is for admins, that are not allowed to use
a modern browser because central IT invested X money in to certifying it with
whatever ridiculous internal stuff they came up with. They do not want to
re-certify with FFn+1 every 3 weeks because no one will pay them.
Obviously you don't want to require support for the latest and greatest
every 3 weeks version, hence "relatively modern". "Relatively modern"
being, I don't know, browsers from 2010? or even 2012? Wouldn't they
have this same certification headache with Java 7 or Java 8?
Grand ma on the opposite just needs to call their kids^w local tech
support
to get an update installed.
No, grandma wouldn't even make the connection that she needed to update
her browser. She just wouldn't go to that website anymore.
FYI, I'm not trying to hijack this thread. Just trying to get input.
--
Bill Burke
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
http://bill.burkecentral.com
5:41 p.m.
Defining a minimum requirement (Chrome, Firefox, Safari, IE latest
versions, N-1, may be N-2) + English for WildFly sounds like a
reasonable approach to me. Separate downloads can be created if
additional browser support etc is required.
All the legacy browsers can still be supported in EAP OOTB.
Arun
On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 5:59 AM, Tomaž Cerar <tomaz.cerar(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hey guys,
I was just discussing with Harald could get distro size down by 25+MB if we
would trim our console a bit.
Currently we compile console with 40 permutations, six browsers
(ie6,ie8,ie9,gecko1_8,safari) and eight languages
(en,de,es,fr,pt_BR,zh_Hans,ja,ko).
I think we could drop support for ie6 and get rid of extra localization with
support only EN.
IE6 market share is so low this days that it really does not make sense to
support it in upstream anymore.
Also we don't ship localization of logging messages/exceptions in WildFy
anyway, so why have just one part localized.
This way we would get down to 4 permutations and our console distro would be
6.8Mb instead of current 32,3Mb
Also if people want extra localization, they could always just download full
console release and replace that with jar we ship.
So what do you guys think?
--
tomaz
_______________________________________________
wildfly-dev mailing list
wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
--
http://blog.arungupta.me
http://twitter.com/arungupta
5:43 p.m.
On 2/24/14, 10:28 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
On 2/24/2014 11:10 AM, Heiko W.Rupp wrote:
>
> Am 24.02.2014 um 15:59 schrieb Bill Burke <bburke(a)redhat.com>:
>
>> is an admin console for admins, not a user application made for your
>> grandma who's using the same old computer and OS version you bought her
>
> Actually that is the real problem - it is for admins, that are not allowed to use
> a modern browser because central IT invested X money in to certifying it with
> whatever ridiculous internal stuff they came up with. They do not want to
> re-certify with FFn+1 every 3 weeks because no one will pay them.
>
Obviously you don't want to require support for the latest and greatest
every 3 weeks version, hence "relatively modern". "Relatively
modern"
being, I don't know, browsers from 2010? or even 2012? Wouldn't they
have this same certification headache with Java 7 or Java 8?
> Grand ma on the opposite just needs to call their kids^w local tech support
> to get an update installed.
>
No, grandma wouldn't even make the connection that she needed to update
her browser. She just wouldn't go to that website anymore.
FYI, I'm not trying to hijack this thread. Just trying to get input.
Are you saying drop IE8 as well? IE 9 came out in March 2011.
Browser geeks: if gecko1_8 was dropped, what's the earliest Firefox we'd
support?
I think Tomaz's proposal to drop IE 6 is a no-brainer.
--
Brian Stansberry
Senior Principal Software Engineer
JBoss by Red Hat
5:50 p.m.
On 2/24/2014 11:43 AM, Brian Stansberry wrote:
On 2/24/14, 10:28 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
Are you saying drop IE8 as well? IE 9 came out in March 2011.
I'm saying, I don't know. What is a reasonable cut-off? Browsers older
than 2 years, 4 years, 6?
--
Bill Burke
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
http://bill.burkecentral.com
6 p.m.
On 2/24/14, 10:50 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
On 2/24/2014 11:43 AM, Brian Stansberry wrote:
> On 2/24/14, 10:28 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
> Are you saying drop IE8 as well? IE 9 came out in March 2011.
>
I'm saying, I don't know. What is a reasonable cut-off? Browsers older
than 2 years, 4 years, 6?
I vote 4, but reserve the right to change my vote once I hear how much
keeping IE8 costs.
When you get down to 2 years you start having a pretty good chance of
annoying people. I'd rather we focus our energy on improving ways to let
people who care get the right size dist for their needs before we start
annoying users of the standard dist.
--
Brian Stansberry
Senior Principal Software Engineer
JBoss by Red Hat
6:04 p.m.
Am 24.02.2014 um 17:43 schrieb Brian Stansberry <brian.stansberry(a)redhat.com>:
On 2/24/14, 10:28 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
>
>
> On 2/24/2014 11:10 AM, Heiko W.Rupp wrote:
>>
>> Am 24.02.2014 um 15:59 schrieb Bill Burke <bburke(a)redhat.com>:
>>
>>> is an admin console for admins, not a user application made for your
>>> grandma who's using the same old computer and OS version you bought her
>>
>> Actually that is the real problem - it is for admins, that are not allowed to
use
>> a modern browser because central IT invested X money in to certifying it with
>> whatever ridiculous internal stuff they came up with. They do not want to
>> re-certify with FFn+1 every 3 weeks because no one will pay them.
>>
>
> Obviously you don't want to require support for the latest and greatest
> every 3 weeks version, hence "relatively modern". "Relatively
modern"
> being, I don't know, browsers from 2010? or even 2012? Wouldn't they
> have this same certification headache with Java 7 or Java 8?
>
>> Grand ma on the opposite just needs to call their kids^w local tech support
>> to get an update installed.
>>
>
> No, grandma wouldn't even make the connection that she needed to update
> her browser. She just wouldn't go to that website anymore.
>
> FYI, I'm not trying to hijack this thread. Just trying to get input.
>
Are you saying drop IE8 as well? IE 9 came out in March 2011.
Browser geeks: if gecko1_8 was dropped, what's the earliest Firefox we'd
support?
gecko1_8 is used for *all* Firefox version > 3.0. For FF, Chrome & Safari GWT does
not distinguish between interim versions. Here's the full list of supported browsers
(taken from the latest GWT sources):
https://gwt.googlesource.com/gwt/+/master/user/src/com/google/gwt/userage...
I think Tomaz's proposal to drop IE 6 is a no-brainer.
I take this as a "Yes, remove IE6 permutation from the WF version"
.: Harald
--
Brian Stansberry
Senior Principal Software Engineer
JBoss by Red Hat
_______________________________________________
wildfly-dev mailing list
wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
---
Harald Pehl
JBoss by Red Hat
http://hpehl.info
6:07 p.m.
And that is why I'll never understand why GWT was chosen.
Tristan
On 24/02/2014 15:06, Harald Pehl wrote:
Am 24.02.2014 um 14:59 schrieb Tomaž Cerar
<tomaz.cerar(a)gmail.com>:
> Hey guys,
>
> I was just discussing with Harald could get distro size down by 25+MB if we would
trim our console a bit.
>
> Currently we compile console with 40 permutations, six browsers
(ie6,ie8,ie9,gecko1_8,safari) and eight languages (en,de,es,fr,pt_BR,zh_Hans,ja,ko).
>
> I think we could drop support for ie6 and get rid of extra localization with support
only EN.
> IE6 market share is so low this days that it really does not make sense to support it
in upstream anymore.
> Also we don't ship localization of logging messages/exceptions in WildFy anyway,
so why have just one part localized.
>
> This way we would get down to 4 permutations and our console distro would be 6.8Mb
instead of current 32,3Mb
>
> Also if people want extra localization, they could always just download full console
release and replace that with jar we ship.
>
> So what do you guys think?
Fully agreed. Besides the reduced distribution size, this would save me 20 minutes
lifetime / per full build ;-)
.: Harald
> --
> tomaz
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
> wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
---
Harald Pehl
JBoss by Red Hat
http://hpehl.info
_______________________________________________
wildfly-dev mailing list
wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
6:10 p.m.
On 2/24/14, 11:04 AM, Harald Pehl wrote:
Am 24.02.2014 um 17:43 schrieb Brian Stansberry
<brian.stansberry(a)redhat.com <mailto:brian.stansberry@redhat.com>>:
> On 2/24/14, 10:28 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 2/24/2014 11:10 AM, Heiko W.Rupp wrote:
>>>
>>> Am 24.02.2014 um 15:59 schrieb Bill Burke <bburke(a)redhat.com
>>> <mailto:bburke@redhat.com>>:
>>>
>>>> is an admin console for admins, not a user application made for your
>>>> grandma who's using the same old computer and OS version you bought
her
>>>
>>> Actually that is the real problem - it is for admins, that are not
>>> allowed to use
>>> a modern browser because central IT invested X money in to
>>> certifying it with
>>> whatever ridiculous internal stuff they came up with. They do not
>>> want to
>>> re-certify with FFn+1 every 3 weeks because no one will pay them.
>>>
>>
>> Obviously you don't want to require support for the latest and greatest
>> every 3 weeks version, hence "relatively modern". "Relatively
modern"
>> being, I don't know, browsers from 2010? or even 2012? Wouldn't they
>> have this same certification headache with Java 7 or Java 8?
>>
>>> Grand ma on the opposite just needs to call their kids^w local tech
>>> support
>>> to get an update installed.
>>>
>>
>> No, grandma wouldn't even make the connection that she needed to update
>> her browser. She just wouldn't go to that website anymore.
>>
>> FYI, I'm not trying to hijack this thread. Just trying to get input.
>>
>
> Are you saying drop IE8 as well? IE 9 came out in March 2011.
>
> Browser geeks: if gecko1_8 was dropped, what's the earliest Firefox we'd
> support?
>
gecko1_8 is used for *all* Firefox version > 3.0. For FF, Chrome &
Safari GWT does not distinguish between interim versions. Here's the
full list of supported browsers (taken from the latest GWT sources):
https://gwt.googlesource.com/gwt/+/master/user/src/com/google/gwt/userage...
Thanks.
So the six browsers are ie6, ie8, ie9, ie10, gecko1_8 and safari. IE10
was the one not on the original email.
> I think Tomaz's proposal to drop IE 6 is a no-brainer.
I take this as a "Yes, remove IE6 permutation from the WF version"
Yes.
.: Harald
>
>
> --
> Brian Stansberry
> Senior Principal Software Engineer
> JBoss by Red Hat
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
> wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:wildfly-dev@lists.jboss.org>
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
---
Harald Pehl
JBoss by Red Hat
http://hpehl.info
--
Brian Stansberry
Senior Principal Software Engineer
JBoss by Red Hat
9:17 p.m.
If we minimised the supported combinations in the default WildFly
ditribution couldn't we provide some instructions on how to build and
replace the console for the users that need more? Or is there something
else I am missing?
Regards,
Darran Lofthouse.
On 24/02/14 17:00, Brian Stansberry wrote:
On 2/24/14, 10:50 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
>
>
> On 2/24/2014 11:43 AM, Brian Stansberry wrote:
>> On 2/24/14, 10:28 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
>> Are you saying drop IE8 as well? IE 9 came out in March 2011.
>>
>
> I'm saying, I don't know. What is a reasonable cut-off? Browsers older
> than 2 years, 4 years, 6?
>
>
I vote 4, but reserve the right to change my vote once I hear how much
keeping IE8 costs.
When you get down to 2 years you start having a pretty good chance of
annoying people. I'd rather we focus our energy on improving ways to let
people who care get the right size dist for their needs before we start
annoying users of the standard dist.
9:24 p.m.
On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 9:17 PM, Darran Lofthouse <
darran.lofthouse(a)jboss.com> wrote:
If we minimised the supported combinations in the default WildFly
ditribution couldn't we provide some instructions on how to build and
replace the console for the users that need more? Or is there something
else I am missing?
That was part of initial idea, either provide instructions how to build it,
or maybe even have "full" console jar published in maven repo.
--
tomaz
9:29 p.m.
Am 24.02.2014 um 21:24 schrieb Tomaž Cerar <tomaz.cerar(a)gmail.com>:
On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 9:17 PM, Darran Lofthouse <darran.lofthouse(a)jboss.com>
wrote:
If we minimised the supported combinations in the default WildFly
ditribution couldn't we provide some instructions on how to build and
replace the console for the users that need more? Or is there something
else I am missing?
That was part of initial idea, either provide instructions how to build it, or maybe even
have "full" console jar published in maven repo.
Yeah, that was also my first thought: Ship with a slimmed console (in terms of browser and
language support) and have the big one in the JBoss repo.
--
tomaz
_______________________________________________
wildfly-dev mailing list
wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
---
Harald Pehl
JBoss by Red Hat
http://hpehl.info
9:52 p.m.
We should be looking at the stats of what browers/version our customer-base is using and
set the cut-offs and version priority from that information.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Stansberry"
<brian.stansberry(a)redhat.com>
To: wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 12:00:46 PM
Subject: Re: [wildfly-dev] Trimming console size
On 2/24/14, 10:50 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
>
>
> On 2/24/2014 11:43 AM, Brian Stansberry wrote:
>> On 2/24/14, 10:28 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
>> Are you saying drop IE8 as well? IE 9 came out in March 2011.
>>
>
> I'm saying, I don't know. What is a reasonable cut-off? Browsers older
> than 2 years, 4 years, 6?
>
>
I vote 4, but reserve the right to change my vote once I hear how much
keeping IE8 costs.
When you get down to 2 years you start having a pretty good chance of
annoying people. I'd rather we focus our energy on improving ways to let
people who care get the right size dist for their needs before we start
annoying users of the standard dist.
--
Brian Stansberry
Senior Principal Software Engineer
JBoss by Red Hat
_______________________________________________
wildfly-dev mailing list
wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
9:55 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
I'm hoping that it won't be long before the web console is a
separate
download that merely connects to WildFly/EAP. At that point we would not
ship web console with the server and this won't really matter any more.
That might be fine for WildFly, but additional downloads is an anti-requirement for EAP.
I assume that if we do trim the console, it will be for WildFly only?
That's
probably a good thing but we would need to explain why the EAP download is
so much larger.
Also note that localization is not just for logging messages and
exceptions.
Some DMR operations are localized too and presumably the result does show up
in the web console UI.
Stan
On 2/24/2014 8:59 AM, Tomaž Cerar wrote:
> Hey guys,
> I was just discussing with Harald could get distro size down by
25+MB if we
> would trim our console a bit.
> Currently we compile console with 40 permutations, six browsers
> (ie6,ie8,ie9,gecko1_8,safari) and eight languages
> (en,de,es,fr,pt_BR,zh_Hans,ja,ko).
> I think we could drop support for ie6 and get rid of extra
localization
> with
> support only EN.
> IE6 market share is so low this days that it really does not make sense to
> support it in upstream anymore.
> Also we don't ship localization of logging messages/exceptions in WildFy
> anyway, so why have just one part localized.
> This way we would get down to 4 permutations and our console
distro would
> be
> 6.8Mb instead of current 32,3Mb
> Also if people want extra localization, they could always just
download
> full
> console release and replace that with jar we ship.
> So what do you guys think?
> --
> tomaz
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
_______________________________________________
wildfly-dev mailing list
wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
10 p.m.
On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 9:55 PM, John Doyle <jdoyle(a)redhat.com> wrote:
That might be fine for WildFly, but additional downloads is an
anti-requirement for EAP.
There is already separate build / distro for EAP console, that does not
change at all. EAP will still have "full" distro.
--
tomaz
10:02 p.m.
Please refer back to the 20 million past threads that explain why it was chosen, and why
it is still a good choice. If you still disagree and still want to criticize it, then
please include a reasonable well researched proposal for an alternative technology, and a
reasonable action plan and timeline for how we get there.
Thanks
On Feb 24, 2014, at 11:07 AM, Tristan Tarrant <ttarrant(a)redhat.com> wrote:
And that is why I'll never understand why GWT was chosen.
Tristan
On 24/02/2014 15:06, Harald Pehl wrote:
> Am 24.02.2014 um 14:59 schrieb Tomaž Cerar <tomaz.cerar(a)gmail.com>:
>
>> Hey guys,
>>
>> I was just discussing with Harald could get distro size down by 25+MB if we would
trim our console a bit.
>>
>> Currently we compile console with 40 permutations, six browsers
(ie6,ie8,ie9,gecko1_8,safari) and eight languages (en,de,es,fr,pt_BR,zh_Hans,ja,ko).
>>
>> I think we could drop support for ie6 and get rid of extra localization with
support only EN.
>> IE6 market share is so low this days that it really does not make sense to
support it in upstream anymore.
>> Also we don't ship localization of logging messages/exceptions in WildFy
anyway, so why have just one part localized.
>>
>> This way we would get down to 4 permutations and our console distro would be
6.8Mb instead of current 32,3Mb
>>
>> Also if people want extra localization, they could always just download full
console release and replace that with jar we ship.
>>
>> So what do you guys think?
> Fully agreed. Besides the reduced distribution size, this would save me 20 minutes
lifetime / per full build ;-)
>
> .: Harald
>
>> --
>> tomaz
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> wildfly-dev mailing list
>> wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
> ---
> Harald Pehl
> JBoss by Red Hat
> http://hpehl.info
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
> wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>
>
_______________________________________________
wildfly-dev mailing list
wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
--
Jason T. Greene
WildFly Lead / JBoss EAP Platform Architect
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
10:15 p.m.
On 2/24/14, 2:55 PM, John Doyle wrote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm hoping that it won't be long before the web console is a
separate download that merely connects to WildFly/EAP. At that
point we would not ship web console with the server and this won't
really matter any more.
That might be fine for WildFly, but additional downloads is an
anti-requirement for EAP.
IMO it would be an anti-requirement for the main distribution of WF as
well -- the one where you download a zip and unzip it to get a full EE
appserver. But it could be common in other ways we distribute.
I assume that if we do trim the console, it will be for WildFly
only? That's probably a good thing but we would need to explain why
the EAP download is so much larger.
Also note that localization is not just for logging messages and
exceptions. Some DMR operations are localized too and presumably
the result does show up in the web console UI.
Stan
On 2/24/2014 8:59 AM, Tomaž Cerar wrote:
Hey guys,
I was just discussing with Harald could get distro size down by
25+MB if we would trim our console a bit.
Currently we compile console with 40 permutations, six browsers
(ie6,ie8,ie9,gecko1_8,safari) and eight languages
(en,de,es,fr,pt_BR,zh_Hans,ja,ko).
I think we could drop support for ie6 and get rid of extra
localization with support only EN.
IE6 market share is so low this days that it really does not
make sense to support it in upstream anymore.
Also we don't ship localization of logging messages/exceptions
in WildFy anyway, so why have just one part localized.
This way we would get down to 4 permutations and our console
distro would be 6.8Mb instead of current 32,3Mb
Also if people want extra localization, they could always just
download full console release and replace that with jar we ship.
So what do you guys think?
--
tomaz
_______________________________________________
wildfly-dev mailing list
wildfly-dev@lists.jboss.orghttps://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
_______________________________________________
wildfly-dev mailing list
wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
_______________________________________________
wildfly-dev mailing list
wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
--
Brian Stansberry
Senior Principal Software Engineer
JBoss by Red Hat
12:48 a.m.
On 2/24/2014 4:15 PM, Brian Stansberry wrote:
On 2/24/14, 2:55 PM, John Doyle wrote:
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'm hoping that it won't be long before the web console is a
> separate download that merely connects to WildFly/EAP. At that
> point we would not ship web console with the server and this won't
> really matter any more.
>
> That might be fine for WildFly, but additional downloads is an
> anti-requirement for EAP.
IMO it would be an anti-requirement for the main distribution of WF as
well -- the one where you download a zip and unzip it to get a full EE
appserver. But it could be common in other ways we distribute.
The web console team
has several good reasons for wanting to have a
separate download. I'll let them articulate it.
But I guess I don't understand your response since web console is not
required in order to have a full EE appserver.
>
>
> I assume that if we do trim the console, it will be for WildFly
> only? That's probably a good thing but we would need to explain why
> the EAP download is so much larger.
>
> Also note that localization is not just for logging messages and
> exceptions. Some DMR operations are localized too and presumably
> the result does show up in the web console UI.
>
> Stan
>
> On 2/24/2014 8:59 AM, Tomaž Cerar wrote:
>
> Hey guys,
>
> I was just discussing with Harald could get distro size down by
> 25+MB if we would trim our console a bit.
>
> Currently we compile console with 40 permutations, six browsers
> (ie6,ie8,ie9,gecko1_8,safari) and eight languages
> (en,de,es,fr,pt_BR,zh_Hans,ja,ko).
>
> I think we could drop support for ie6 and get rid of extra
> localization with support only EN.
> IE6 market share is so low this days that it really does not
> make sense to support it in upstream anymore.
> Also we don't ship localization of logging messages/exceptions
> in WildFy anyway, so why have just one part localized.
>
> This way we would get down to 4 permutations and our console
> distro would be 6.8Mb instead of current 32,3Mb
>
> Also if people want extra localization, they could always just
> download full console release and replace that with jar we ship.
>
> So what do you guys think?
>
>
> --
> tomaz
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
>
wildfly-dev@lists.jboss.orghttps://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
> wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
> wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>
1:05 a.m.
On 2/24/14, 5:48 PM, Stan Silvert wrote:
On 2/24/2014 4:15 PM, Brian Stansberry wrote:
> On 2/24/14, 2:55 PM, John Doyle wrote:
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> I'm hoping that it won't be long before the web console is a
>> separate download that merely connects to WildFly/EAP. At that
>> point we would not ship web console with the server and this won't
>> really matter any more.
>>
>> That might be fine for WildFly, but additional downloads is an
>> anti-requirement for EAP.
> IMO it would be an anti-requirement for the main distribution of WF as
> well -- the one where you download a zip and unzip it to get a full EE
> appserver. But it could be common in other ways we distribute.
The web console team has several good reasons for wanting to have a
separate download. I'll let them articulate it.
But I guess I don't understand your response since web console is not
required in order to have a full EE appserver.
I didn't say there shouldn't be a separate download available. I just
think that as long as we are providing a big old zip of an EE appserver,
it should include the console. *Requiring* users who are already
downloading 100MB+ to go download the console separately just to have
one seems silly and a poor user experience.
If we're talking smaller, lighter distributions or tooling that builds a
dist for you, that's a different matter.
>
>>
>>
>> I assume that if we do trim the console, it will be for WildFly
>> only? That's probably a good thing but we would need to explain why
>> the EAP download is so much larger.
>>
>> Also note that localization is not just for logging messages and
>> exceptions. Some DMR operations are localized too and presumably
>> the result does show up in the web console UI.
>>
>> Stan
>>
>> On 2/24/2014 8:59 AM, Tomaž Cerar wrote:
>>
>> Hey guys,
>>
>> I was just discussing with Harald could get distro size down by
>> 25+MB if we would trim our console a bit.
>>
>> Currently we compile console with 40 permutations, six browsers
>> (ie6,ie8,ie9,gecko1_8,safari) and eight languages
>> (en,de,es,fr,pt_BR,zh_Hans,ja,ko).
>>
>> I think we could drop support for ie6 and get rid of extra
>> localization with support only EN.
>> IE6 market share is so low this days that it really does not
>> make sense to support it in upstream anymore.
>> Also we don't ship localization of logging messages/exceptions
>> in WildFy anyway, so why have just one part localized.
>>
>> This way we would get down to 4 permutations and our console
>> distro would be 6.8Mb instead of current 32,3Mb
>>
>> Also if people want extra localization, they could always just
>> download full console release and replace that with jar we ship.
>>
>> So what do you guys think?
>>
>>
>> --
>> tomaz
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> wildfly-dev mailing list
>>
wildfly-dev@lists.jboss.orghttps://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> wildfly-dev mailing list
>> wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> wildfly-dev mailing list
>> wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>>
>
_______________________________________________
wildfly-dev mailing list
wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
--
Brian Stansberry
Senior Principal Software Engineer
JBoss by Red Hat
1:19 a.m.
On 2/24/2014 3:55 PM, John Doyle wrote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm hoping that it won't be long before the web console is a
separate download that merely connects to WildFly/EAP. At that
point we would not ship web console with the server and this won't
really matter any more.
That might be fine for WildFly, but additional downloads is an
anti-requirement for EAP.
The user doesn't necessarily know the difference as
long as he is
connected to the internet. Whether the console app is first downloaded
from the EAP server or from a Red Hat server shouldn't matter.
I assume that if we do trim the console, it will be for WildFly
only? That's probably a good thing but we would need to explain
why the EAP download is so much larger.
Also note that localization is not just for logging messages and
exceptions. Some DMR operations are localized too and presumably
the result does show up in the web console UI.
Stan
On 2/24/2014 8:59 AM, Tomaž Cerar wrote:
Hey guys,
I was just discussing with Harald could get distro size down
by 25+MB if we would trim our console a bit.
Currently we compile console with 40 permutations, six
browsers (ie6,ie8,ie9,gecko1_8,safari) and eight languages
(en,de,es,fr,pt_BR,zh_Hans,ja,ko).
I think we could drop support for ie6 and get rid of extra
localization with support only EN.
IE6 market share is so low this days that it really does not
make sense to support it in upstream anymore.
Also we don't ship localization of logging messages/exceptions
in WildFy anyway, so why have just one part localized.
This way we would get down to 4 permutations and our console
distro would be 6.8Mb instead of current 32,3Mb
Also if people want extra localization, they could always just
download full console release and replace that with jar we ship.
So what do you guys think?
--
tomaz
_______________________________________________
wildfly-dev mailing list
wildfly-dev@lists.jboss.orghttps://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
_______________________________________________
wildfly-dev mailing list
wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
12:15 p.m.
I filed [HAL-381] to further track this.
[HAL-381] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/HAL-381
Regards
Harald
Am 25.02.2014 um 01:19 schrieb Stan Silvert <ssilvert(a)redhat.com>:
On 2/24/2014 3:55 PM, John Doyle wrote:
>
>
> I'm hoping that it won't be long before the web console is a separate
download that merely connects to WildFly/EAP. At that point we would not ship web console
with the server and this won't really matter any more.
> That might be fine for WildFly, but additional downloads is an anti-requirement for
EAP.
The user doesn't necessarily know the difference as long as he is connected to the
internet. Whether the console app is first downloaded from the EAP server or from a Red
Hat server shouldn't matter.
>
>
> I assume that if we do trim the console, it will be for WildFly only? That's
probably a good thing but we would need to explain why the EAP download is so much
larger.
>
> Also note that localization is not just for logging messages and exceptions. Some
DMR operations are localized too and presumably the result does show up in the web console
UI.
>
> Stan
>
> On 2/24/2014 8:59 AM, Tomaž Cerar wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> I was just discussing with Harald could get distro size down by 25+MB if we would
trim our console a bit.
>
> Currently we compile console with 40 permutations, six browsers
(ie6,ie8,ie9,gecko1_8,safari) and eight languages (en,de,es,fr,pt_BR,zh_Hans,ja,ko).
>
> I think we could drop support for ie6 and get rid of extra localization with support
only EN.
> IE6 market share is so low this days that it really does not make sense to support it
in upstream anymore.
> Also we don't ship localization of logging messages/exceptions in WildFy anyway,
so why have just one part localized.
>
> This way we would get down to 4 permutations and our console distro would be 6.8Mb
instead of current 32,3Mb
>
> Also if people want extra localization, they could always just download full console
release and replace that with jar we ship.
>
> So what do you guys think?
>
>
> --
> tomaz
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
> wildfly-dev@lists.jboss.orghttps://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
> wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>
_______________________________________________
wildfly-dev mailing list
wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
---
Harald Pehl
JBoss by Red Hat
http://hpehl.info
12:16 p.m.
The plan is to ship a reduced console with 8.0.1
.: Harald
Am 25.02.2014 um 12:15 schrieb Harald Pehl <hpehl(a)redhat.com>:
I filed [HAL-381] to further track this.
[HAL-381] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/HAL-381
Regards
Harald
Am 25.02.2014 um 01:19 schrieb Stan Silvert <ssilvert(a)redhat.com>:
> On 2/24/2014 3:55 PM, John Doyle wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'm hoping that it won't be long before the web console is a separate
download that merely connects to WildFly/EAP. At that point we would not ship web console
with the server and this won't really matter any more.
>> That might be fine for WildFly, but additional downloads is an anti-requirement
for EAP.
> The user doesn't necessarily know the difference as long as he is connected to
the internet. Whether the console app is first downloaded from the EAP server or from a
Red Hat server shouldn't matter.
>
>>
>>
>> I assume that if we do trim the console, it will be for WildFly only? That's
probably a good thing but we would need to explain why the EAP download is so much
larger.
>>
>> Also note that localization is not just for logging messages and exceptions.
Some DMR operations are localized too and presumably the result does show up in the web
console UI.
>>
>> Stan
>>
>> On 2/24/2014 8:59 AM, Tomaž Cerar wrote:
>> Hey guys,
>>
>> I was just discussing with Harald could get distro size down by 25+MB if we would
trim our console a bit.
>>
>> Currently we compile console with 40 permutations, six browsers
(ie6,ie8,ie9,gecko1_8,safari) and eight languages (en,de,es,fr,pt_BR,zh_Hans,ja,ko).
>>
>> I think we could drop support for ie6 and get rid of extra localization with
support only EN.
>> IE6 market share is so low this days that it really does not make sense to
support it in upstream anymore.
>> Also we don't ship localization of logging messages/exceptions in WildFy
anyway, so why have just one part localized.
>>
>> This way we would get down to 4 permutations and our console distro would be
6.8Mb instead of current 32,3Mb
>>
>> Also if people want extra localization, they could always just download full
console release and replace that with jar we ship.
>>
>> So what do you guys think?
>>
>>
>> --
>> tomaz
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> wildfly-dev mailing list
>> wildfly-dev@lists.jboss.orghttps://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> wildfly-dev mailing list
>> wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
> wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
---
Harald Pehl
JBoss by Red Hat
http://hpehl.info
---
Harald Pehl
JBoss by Red Hat
http://hpehl.info
2:06 p.m.
Hi Jason,
the only discussion I found where there was some sort of comparison with
other choices was with JSF.
I found nothing on the possibility of using some kind of Javascript
framework, but maybe I didn't use the right query terms
Tristan
On 24/02/2014 22:02, Jason Greene wrote:
Please refer back to the 20 million past threads that explain why it
was chosen, and why it is still a good choice. If you still disagree and still want to
criticize it, then please include a reasonable well researched proposal for an alternative
technology, and a reasonable action plan and timeline for how we get there.
Thanks
On Feb 24, 2014, at 11:07 AM, Tristan Tarrant <ttarrant(a)redhat.com> wrote:
> And that is why I'll never understand why GWT was chosen.
>
> Tristan
>
>
2:06 p.m.
Hi Jason,
the only discussion I found where there was some sort of comparison with
other choices was with JSF.
I found nothing on the possibility of using some kind of Javascript
framework, but maybe I didn't use the right query terms
Tristan
On 24/02/2014 22:02, Jason Greene wrote:
Please refer back to the 20 million past threads that explain why it
was chosen, and why it is still a good choice. If you still disagree and still want to
criticize it, then please include a reasonable well researched proposal for an alternative
technology, and a reasonable action plan and timeline for how we get there.
Thanks
On Feb 24, 2014, at 11:07 AM, Tristan Tarrant <ttarrant(a)redhat.com> wrote:
> And that is why I'll never understand why GWT was chosen.
>
> Tristan
>
>
8:41 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
On 2/24/2014 3:55 PM, John Doyle wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> > I'm hoping that it won't be long before the web
console is a separate
> > download that merely connects to WildFly/EAP. At that point we would not
> > ship web console with the server and this won't really matter any more.
>
> That might be fine for WildFly, but additional downloads is an
> anti-requirement for EAP.
The user doesn't necessarily know the difference as long as he is
connected
to the internet. Whether the console app is first downloaded from the EAP
server or from a Red Hat server shouldn't matter.
We have users that cannot
connect to the internet for security reasons.
> > I assume that if we do trim the console, it will be for
WildFly only?
> > That's
> > probably a good thing but we would need to explain why the EAP download
> > is
> > so much larger.
>
> > Also note that localization is not just for logging
messages and
> > exceptions.
> > Some DMR operations are localized too and presumably the result does show
> > up
> > in the web console UI.
>
> > Stan
>
> > On 2/24/2014 8:59 AM, Tomaž Cerar wrote:
>
> > > Hey guys,
> >
>
> > > I was just discussing with Harald could get distro
size down by 25+MB
> > > if
> > > we
> > > would trim our console a bit.
> >
>
> > > Currently we compile console with 40 permutations, six
browsers
> > > (ie6,ie8,ie9,gecko1_8,safari) and eight languages
> > > (en,de,es,fr,pt_BR,zh_Hans,ja,ko).
> >
>
> > > I think we could drop support for ie6 and get rid of
extra localization
> > > with
> > > support only EN.
> >
>
> > > IE6 market share is so low this days that it really does not make sense
> > > to
> > > support it in upstream anymore.
> >
>
> > > Also we don't ship localization of logging messages/exceptions in
> > > WildFy
> > > anyway, so why have just one part localized.
> >
>
> > > This way we would get down to 4 permutations and our
console distro
> > > would
> > > be
> > > 6.8Mb instead of current 32,3Mb
> >
>
> > > Also if people want extra localization, they could
always just download
> > > full
> > > console release and replace that with jar we ship.
> >
>
> > > So what do you guys think?
> >
>
> > > --
> >
>
> > > tomaz
> >
>
> > > _______________________________________________
> >
>
> > > wildfly-dev mailing list wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > wildfly-dev mailing list
>
> > wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
>
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>
9:01 p.m.
On 2/25/2014 2:41 PM, John Doyle wrote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2/24/2014 3:55 PM, John Doyle wrote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm hoping that it won't be long before the web console is
a separate download that merely connects to WildFly/EAP.
At that point we would not ship web console with the
server and this won't really matter any more.
That might be fine for WildFly, but additional downloads is an
anti-requirement for EAP.
The user doesn't necessarily know the difference as long as he is
connected to the internet. Whether the console app is first
downloaded from the EAP server or from a Red Hat server shouldn't
matter.
We have users that cannot connect to the internet for security reasons.
Then they
can't download the server either. Problem solved. :-)
But seriously, that's a simple matter to address. I'm just pointing out
that it doesn't matter if the browser downloads the console from an
EAP/WildFly server or from somewhere else. It's all the same to the user.
There are great advantages to moving the console out of the distro.
Perhaps Herald or Heiko will explain when they are ready.
I assume that if we do trim the console, it will be for
WildFly only? That's probably a good thing but we would
need to explain why the EAP download is so much larger.
Also note that localization is not just for logging
messages and exceptions. Some DMR operations are
localized too and presumably the result does show up in
the web console UI.
Stan
On 2/24/2014 8:59 AM, Tomaž Cerar wrote:
Hey guys,
I was just discussing with Harald could get distro
size down by 25+MB if we would trim our console a bit.
Currently we compile console with 40 permutations, six
browsers (ie6,ie8,ie9,gecko1_8,safari) and eight
languages (en,de,es,fr,pt_BR,zh_Hans,ja,ko).
I think we could drop support for ie6 and get rid of
extra localization with support only EN.
IE6 market share is so low this days that it really
does not make sense to support it in upstream anymore.
Also we don't ship localization of logging
messages/exceptions in WildFy anyway, so why have just
one part localized.
This way we would get down to 4 permutations and our
console distro would be 6.8Mb instead of current 32,3Mb
Also if people want extra localization, they could
always just download full console release and replace
that with jar we ship.
So what do you guys think?
--
tomaz
_______________________________________________
wildfly-dev mailing list
wildfly-dev@lists.jboss.orghttps://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
_______________________________________________
wildfly-dev mailing list
wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
4:21 a.m.
On 2/25/2014 3:01 PM, Stan Silvert wrote:
On 2/25/2014 2:41 PM, John Doyle wrote:
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On 2/24/2014 3:55 PM, John Doyle wrote:
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'm hoping that it won't be long before the web console is
> a separate download that merely connects to WildFly/EAP.
> At that point we would not ship web console with the
> server and this won't really matter any more.
>
> That might be fine for WildFly, but additional downloads is an
> anti-requirement for EAP.
>
> The user doesn't necessarily know the difference as long as he is
> connected to the internet. Whether the console app is first
> downloaded from the EAP server or from a Red Hat server shouldn't
> matter.
>
> We have users that cannot connect to the internet for security reasons.
Then they can't download the server either. Problem solved. :-)
But seriously, that's a simple matter to address. I'm just pointing out
that it doesn't matter if the browser downloads the console from an
EAP/WildFly server or from somewhere else. It's all the same to the user.
There are great advantages to moving the console out of the distro.
Perhaps Herald or Heiko will explain when they are ready.
I hope this separation of the console from Wildfly is optional. Its a
much bigger advantage to be able to download one distro, unzip, and run,
specifically for development. Makes it simple for 1st time users. For
development, nobody cares if there's an extra 30M that's part of the
distro. It would be much more annoying to have to figure out how to
install a separate console download just to be able to configure
something as simple as a datasource from the mgmt UI.
--
Bill Burke
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
http://bill.burkecentral.com
9:23 a.m.
Your proposal to reduce the permutations for WF makes sense. Especially the reduction to
just EN.However for EAP it's a different story. I can dig up a product reference
describing the requirements wrt to browser support. OOTH i think it's the last two
major versions. But a s Heiko R, said: For admins within restricted IT environments we
often see people using old versions.
But that doesn't prevent us from optimising the WF distribution. So you get my +1
/Heiko B
On 24 Feb 2014, at 14:59, Tomaž Cerar <tomaz.cerar(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hey guys,
I was just discussing with Harald could get distro size down by 25+MB if we would trim
our console a bit.
Currently we compile console with 40 permutations, six browsers
(ie6,ie8,ie9,gecko1_8,safari) and eight languages (en,de,es,fr,pt_BR,zh_Hans,ja,ko).
I think we could drop support for ie6 and get rid of extra localization with support only
EN.
IE6 market share is so low this days that it really does not make sense to support it in
upstream anymore.
Also we don't ship localization of logging messages/exceptions in WildFy anyway, so
why have just one part localized.
This way we would get down to 4 permutations and our console distro would be 6.8Mb
instead of current 32,3Mb
Also if people want extra localization, they could always just download full console
release and replace that with jar we ship.
So what do you guys think?
--
tomaz
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9:26 a.m.
No, it's a pretty reasonable approach. The question is what happens when Keycloak
should be added to a product with much more strict requirements? It might not happen soon
and the browser landscape is subject to change until then, but it remains a question to be
answered at some point. If you build everything around cutting edge DOM and JS API's
only supported by a small percentage of modern browsers you'd easily hit a wall.
/Heiko
On 24 Feb 2014, at 15:59, Bill Burke <bburke(a)redhat.com> wrote:
I'm asking because that's the approach we took with the
Keycloak admin
console. Our user facing screens must be compatible with old browsers
where our admin console can rely on relatively modern Javascript APIs
and HTML support. Is this a bad approach to take?
9:28 a.m.
+1
On 26 Feb 2014, at 04:21, Bill Burke <bburke(a)redhat.com> wrote:
I hope this separation of the console from Wildfly is optional. Its
a
much bigger advantage to be able to download one distro, unzip, and run,
specifically for development. Makes it simple for 1st time users. For
development, nobody cares if there's an extra 30M that's part of the
distro.
12:56 p.m.
On 2/25/2014 10:21 PM, Bill Burke wrote:
On 2/25/2014 3:01 PM, Stan Silvert wrote:
> On 2/25/2014 2:41 PM, John Doyle wrote:
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> On 2/24/2014 3:55 PM, John Doyle wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> I'm hoping that it won't be long before the web console is
>> a separate download that merely connects to WildFly/EAP.
>> At that point we would not ship web console with the
>> server and this won't really matter any more.
>>
>> That might be fine for WildFly, but additional downloads is an
>> anti-requirement for EAP.
>>
>> The user doesn't necessarily know the difference as long as he is
>> connected to the internet. Whether the console app is first
>> downloaded from the EAP server or from a Red Hat server shouldn't
>> matter.
>>
>> We have users that cannot connect to the internet for security reasons.
> Then they can't download the server either. Problem solved. :-)
>
> But seriously, that's a simple matter to address. I'm just pointing out
> that it doesn't matter if the browser downloads the console from an
> EAP/WildFly server or from somewhere else. It's all the same to the user.
>
> There are great advantages to moving the console out of the distro.
> Perhaps Herald or Heiko will explain when they are ready.
I hope this separation of the console from Wildfly is optional. Its a
much bigger advantage to be able to download one distro, unzip, and run,
specifically for development. Makes it simple for 1st time users. For
development, nobody cares if there's an extra 30M that's part of the
distro. It would be much more annoying to have to figure out how to
install a separate console download just to be able to configure
something as simple as a datasource from the mgmt UI.
I guess I'm still not explaining this well. Nobody has to figure out
how to download or install anything. You hit the server same as always,
but the console bits come from somewhere else.
1:27 p.m.
On 2/26/2014 3:28 AM, Heiko Braun wrote:
+1
Heiko,
I understood that you and Herald were the ones driving this. Is your +1
just for the "optional" part or do you no longer think that having the
console as an independent downloadable app is a good idea?
On 26 Feb 2014, at 04:21, Bill Burke <bburke(a)redhat.com
<mailto:bburke@redhat.com>> wrote:
> I hope this separation of the console from Wildfly is optional. Its a
> much bigger advantage to be able to download one distro, unzip, and run,
> specifically for development. Makes it simple for 1st time users. For
> development, nobody cares if there's an extra 30M that's part of the
> distro.
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5:02 p.m.
we been proposing a separate delivery channel, yes. The main motivation was to provide
beta streams and updates independent of the WF release cycle. But that doesn't mean
shipping WF downloads w/o a console. IMO this should stay.
I hope that answers your question.
/Heiko
On 26 Feb 2014, at 13:27, Stan Silvert <ssilvert(a)redhat.com> wrote:
I understood that you and Herald were the ones driving this. Is your
+1 just for the "optional" part or do you no longer think that having the
console as an independent downloadable app is a good idea?
>
> On 26 Feb 2014, at 04:21, Bill Burke <bburke(a)redhat.com> wrote:
>
>> I hope this separation of the console from Wildfly is optional. Its a
>> much bigger advantage to be able to download one distro, unzip, and run,
>> specifically for development. Makes it simple for 1st time users. For
>> development, nobody cares if there's an extra 30M that's part of the
>> distro.
>
>
>
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37 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
Arun Gupta -
Bill Burke -
Brian Stansberry -
Darran Lofthouse -
Harald Pehl -
Heiko Braun -
Heiko W.Rupp -
Jason Greene -
John Doyle -
Rebecca Searls -
Stan Silvert -
Tomaž Cerar -
Tristan Tarrant