[cdi-dev] With the end of Java Config...

Fri Sep 5 11:12:56 EDT 2014

Pete/all

Thanks for the clarification. It seems, otherwise he would not have pointed
out the issue in the first place, Anatole is also not able even as a Co
Spec Lead to take a driving seat on that.

I am Co Spec Lead of JSR 363 - Unit of Measurement (which especially in the
SE implementation optimized for SE/EE 8+ seems like there are synergies for
a typesafe definition of config elements;-) ) so other than assisting one
or the other Spec Lead found for this I do not see reason to take more than
one Spec Lead responsibility at a time, otherwise, jut look at the misery
of JSR 310 or 107;-D

Are there any observers/experts here or in EE 8 that would feel like
helping lead such a JSR?
Anatole and I also spoke to CloudBees (a company you sure know well) and
there was general interest, but I recall they had slightly different views
on some things, but as EG Member both they and maybe other players (e.g.
Pivotal or someone from DeltaSpike both with an approach to config) would
be qualified EG Members or Co Spec Leads for this.

As you know it would be best if a true Individual who is self employed
(e.g. Antonio?;-)) did this, otherwise an employee of a company, even more
if they have something to do with Java could run into IP and patent
troubles, I talk from the experience in EC and IP WG of JSR 358;-)

Anybody willing and able to help?

I'll be at JavaZone next week, speaking with e.g. Arun or (EE EG Member)
Jeff Genender, so if there is no sound interest in this list, we can
certainly talk about it in Oslo, too.

Werner

On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Pete Muir <pmuir at redhat.com> wrote:

> I would just like to note that we definitely support the idea of a Config
> JSR. And we would provide strong EG representation, and help with RI/TCK.
> However we are unable to take a lead role in it right now, due to having
> many other things going on.
>
> On 5 Sep 2014, at 15:43, Werner Keil <werner.keil at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > You got a point, but so far both Oracle and Red Hat dismissed the idea
> of a separate Config JSR. Anatole was in touch with both of them and either
> their resources or interest seemed to lack.
> >
> > It is quite a shamble, that e.g. JSR 107 already went down the path of a
> completely separate Config sub-system (
> https://github.com/jsr107/jsr107spec/tree/master/src/main/java/javax/cache/configuration)
> while pruning other much more importent (especially for true EE 8 value)
> features like Transaction Support in line with JTA, etc.
> >
> > If CDI2 needed a config sub-system, too, we better avoid their mistake
> or (for EE 8 since it is considered for inclusion) look at ways this may
> work together in some unified way.
> > Whether it's a separate JSR or "Module" of CDI 2 I don't really care,
> but we must not fall into the same "Not invented Here" trap as Java SE did
> with all its redundant and bloated features like JavaFX having its own
> Date/Time same as java.util.Date (which aside from JSR 236 also is the only
> one relevant to EE, JDBC, etc.) or the extra package java.time.
> >
> > JCache already went in the wrong direction here, as it is final there is
> probably not a lot to do, but do we really want to end up with
> > - JCache-config
> > - CDI-config
> > - MVC-config
> > ...
> >
> > ??;-O
> >
> > Werner
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 4:24 PM, <cdi-dev-request at lists.jboss.org> wrote:
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> >    1. [JBoss JIRA] (CDI-4) Need a way to provide ordering for Event
> >       observers (Martin Kouba (JIRA))
> >    2. Re: cdi-dev Digest, Vol 46, Issue 16 (Werner Keil)
> >    3. Re: With the end of Java Config... (John D. Ament)
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 10:24:37 -0400
> > From: "John D. Ament" <john.d.ament at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [cdi-dev] With the end of Java Config...
> > To: Antonio Goncalves <antonio.goncalves at gmail.com>
> > Cc: cdi-dev <cdi-dev at lists.jboss.org>
> > Message-ID:
> >         <
> CAOqetn8UrpdWEFV8LJJ57hJ+z-iAFNjEEzyqsfPXFUQutuqT8A at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Agreed w/ Antonio.  JAX-RS did the right thing by making MVC a separate
> > spec.  While we can provide a way to wire up beans externally w/ an XML
> > DSL, I don't think we should get into the business of config
> properties,etc.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 10:08 AM, Antonio Goncalves <
> > antonio.goncalves at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > One wise man* once said "EJB was a hype specification, we added too
> many
> > > things to it, it became bloated. The next hype specifications are
> JAX-RS
> > > and CDI, careful with them"
> > >
> > > Either we get this idea of "parts" right, or CDI will endup being
> bloated.
> > >
> > > Antonio
> > >
> > >
> > > *David Blevin
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Antoine Sabot-Durand <
> > > antoine at sabot-durand.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi all,
> > >>
> > >> You may have followed the rise and fall of the Java Config JSR (
> > >>
> http://javaeeconfig.blogspot.ch/2014/09/no-java-ee-configuration-for-ee8-dear.html
> > >> ).
> > >> Anatole in CC was leading this initiative and I proposed him to join
> us
> > >> and explore if some part of his late-JSR could be done in CDI.
> > >>
> > >> I?m mainly thinking of https://issues.jboss.org/browse/CDI-123 or
> > >> related solution. If we achieve to have a majority of specs to
> integrate
> > >> with CDI, our configuration solution would therefore become a
> configuration
> > >> system for all spec based on CDI 2.0.
> > >>
> > >> Antoine
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Antonio Goncalves
> > > Software architect, Java Champion and Pluralsight author
> > >
> > > Web site <http://www.antoniogoncalves.org> | Twitter
> > > <http://twitter.com/agoncal> | LinkedIn
> > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal> | Pluralsight
> > > <http://pluralsight.com/training/Authors/Details/antonio-goncalves> |
> Paris
> > > JUG <http://www.parisjug.org> | Devoxx France <http://www.devoxx.fr>
> > >
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