[cdi-dev] CDI-616 Injection point declared as transient is not useful

Thu Jul 21 05:28:26 EDT 2016

+1 on the definition error Emily suggests. Especially since transient will
cause exceptions random hard to reproduce exceptions at runtime.

Unproxiable Type due to non private final methods and the like will be
encountered as soon as some tries to use it during development. In so far
its different, since the transient will only cause a problem when
passivatable scopes are deserialized, which is unlikely during development
and even if it occurs it will be probably be considered as development
glitch.

Also in my experience implementation specific warnings and the like cause
more confusions then anything else. Also in the context in of the
application server the console warnings will be lost in the flood of
startup outputs.

On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 at 11:12 Emily Jiang <EMIJIANG at uk.ibm.com> wrote:

> As Stephen points out if the "when normal scoped injects are marked
> transient", it will fail at runtime anyway. I am kind of thinking to
> throw a definition error when injection field marks as transient.
>
> Many thanks,
> Emily
> ===========================
> Emily Jiang
> WebSphere Application Server, CDI Development Lead
>
> MP 211, DE3A20, Winchester, Hampshire, England, SO21 2JN
> Phone:  +44 (0)1962 816278  Internal: 246278
>
> Email: emijiang at uk.ibm.com
> Lotus Notes: Emily Jiang/UK/IBM at IBMGB
>
>
>
>
> From:        Tomas Remes <tremes at redhat.com>
> To:        Emily Jiang/UK/IBM at IBMGB,
> Cc:        cdi-dev at lists.jboss.org
> Date:        21/07/2016 07:13
> Subject:        Re: [cdi-dev] CDI-616 Injection point declared as
> transient is        not        useful
> Sent by:        cdi-dev-bounces at lists.jboss.org
>
>
>
>
> As you said. If we introduce definition error for this it won't be
> backward compatible so warning could be sufficient I think and therefore
> (maybe) I wouldn't solve this at specification level but only at
> implementation level. That's my current feeling.
>
> Tom
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Emily Jiang" <EMIJIANG at uk.ibm.com>
> To: "Martin Kouba" <mkouba at redhat.com>
> Cc: cdi-dev at lists.jboss.org
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 5:43:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [cdi-dev] CDI-616 Injection point declared as transient is
> not                 useful
>
> I prefer to classify a definition error if when normal scoped injects are
> marked transient as I agree logging an error or warning are implementation
> details.
>
> I am still struggling to find user case for "non-normal scoped injects are
> marked transient".
>
> If it is not useful and problematic, why don't we just declare a
> Definition Error if an injection field defined transient? Easy and
> straightforward. Thoughts?
>
> Many thanks,
> Emily
> ===========================
> Emily Jiang
> WebSphere Application Server, CDI Development Lead
>
> MP 211, DE3A20, Winchester, Hampshire, England, SO21 2JN
> Phone: +44 (0)1962 816278 Internal: 246278
>
> Email: emijiang at uk.ibm.com
> Lotus Notes: Emily Jiang/UK/IBM at IBMGB
>
>
>
>
> From: Martin Kouba <mkouba at redhat.com>
> To: cdi-dev at lists.jboss.org,
> Date: 20/07/2016 15:38
> Subject: Re: [cdi-dev] CDI-616 Injection point declared as transient is
> not useful
> Sent by: cdi-dev-bounces at lists.jboss.org
>
>
>
>
> Do you suggest to log an ERROR message or to treat it as a definition
> error?
>
> Altough I don't have any real use case, I'm not so sure this should be a
> definition error. It reminds me unproxyable types with non-private final
> methods (CDI-527) - right now it is a definition error (and I think it's
> good) but the EG decided to change this, although it could result in
> runtime errors (and both Weld and OWB allow to relax this restriction).
>
> As to WARNING - the spec currently does not define anything like logging
> or logging levels. IIRC the only mention is in 10.5. Observer
> notification:
> "If the observer method is a transactional observer method, any
> exception is caught and logged by the container."
>
> And I believe we should not introduce logging levels in the spec.
>
> Martin
>
> Dne 19.7.2016 v 12:52 Stephan Knitelius napsal(a):
> > Yes it will cause start up issues for applications which define
> > transient normal scoped injections, however these Apps currently have
> > runtime issues after dezieralization of passivatable scoped bean.
> >
> > Trading an easily fixable start-up issue for a hard to reproduce runtime
> > issue seems like a good trade off to me.
> >
> > Stephan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 at 12:12 Emily Jiang <EMIJIANG at uk.ibm.com
> > < mailto:EMIJIANG at uk.ibm.com <EMIJIANG at uk.ibm.com> >> wrote:
> >
> > If we define an error, we will introduce a backward compatibility
> > issue. Some app will stop starting. Will this cause a big problem?
> > If this is not a concern, +1 on defining a DefinitionError on this
> > case: ERROR - when normal scoped injects are marked transient.and a
> > warning on WARNING - when non-normal scoped injects are marked
> > transient.
> >
> > Many thanks,
> > Emily
> > ===========================
> > Emily Jiang
> > WebSphere Application Server, CDI Development Lead
> >
> > MP 211, DE3A20, Winchester, Hampshire, England, SO21 2JN
> > Phone: +44 (0)1962 816278 Internal: 246278
> >
> > Email: emijiang at uk.ibm.com < mailto:emijiang at uk.ibm.com
> <emijiang at uk.ibm.com> >
> > Lotus Notes: Emily Jiang/UK/IBM at IBMGB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Stephan Knitelius <stephan at knitelius.com
> > < mailto:stephan at knitelius.com <stephan at knitelius.com> >>
> > To: cdi-dev <cdi-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > < mailto:cdi-dev at lists.jboss.org <cdi-dev at lists.jboss.org> >>,
> > Date: 19/07/2016 08:26
> > Subject: [cdi-dev] CDI-616 Injection point declared as
> > transient is not useful
> > Sent by: cdi-dev-bounces at lists.jboss.org
> > < mailto:cdi-dev-bounces at lists.jboss.org
> <cdi-dev-bounces at lists.jboss.org> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I frequently encounter injections marked transient in client
> > projects. I really think it would be of great help if we where to
> > define Error/Warning when injection fields are marked transient.
> >
> > As Mark pointed out there may be a valid use cases for non
> > normal-scoped bean injections to be made transient.
> >
> > My suggestion is:
> >
> > * ERROR - when normal scoped injects are marked transient.
> >
> > *
> > * WARNING - when non-normal scoped injects are marked transient.
> >
> > Looking forward to your feedback.
> >
> > *
> > * Stephan_______________________________________________
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>
> --
> Martin Kouba
> Software Engineer
> Red Hat, Czech Republic
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