<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I think with this that there is also the risk of fragmenting the CDI XML configuration. If XML configuration does make it into the spec, and it is not 100% compatible with Seam XML, you may end up with a situations where some applications use the CDI XML and some are using Seam XML. A similar situation could result if the XML configuration in the spec does not include all the Seam XML features.<div><br></div><div>Stuart<br><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On 08/10/2011, at 5:47 AM, Rick Hightower wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">I agree with you about most extensions. But XML is different. People expect XML config. Partly due to the pervasiveness of Spring et al. <div><br></div><div>I agree the XML should look something like Seam XML.</div><div><br>
</div><div>Anyway... just my 2 cents.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 8:02 AM, Mark Struberg <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:struberg@yahoo.de">struberg@yahoo.de</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
Carlo, the argument is that CDI specifies portable extensions.<br>
<br>
Thus you don't need to specify any CDI-XML itself because the Seam-XML Extension is portable on any CDI container anyway.<br>
<br>
By giving the Hibernate example please remember how long it took to get a working JPA spec and that it is NOT hibernate which got specified. JPA is similar but not the exact same.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
LieGrue,<br>
strub<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
</div><div class="im">> From: Carlo de Wolf <<a href="mailto:cdewolf@redhat.com">cdewolf@redhat.com</a>><br>
> To: Stuart Douglas <<a href="mailto:stuart.w.douglas@gmail.com">stuart.w.douglas@gmail.com</a>><br>
> Cc: Mark Struberg <<a href="mailto:struberg@yahoo.de">struberg@yahoo.de</a>>; cdi-dev <<a href="mailto:cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org">cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org</a>><br>
</div><div><div></div><div class="h5">> Sent: Friday, October 7, 2011 4:49 PM<br>
> Subject: Re: [cdi-dev] CDI 1.1 EDR1 posted :-)<br>
><br>
> On 10/07/2011 09:17 AM, Stuart Douglas wrote:<br>
>> On 07/10/2011, at 6:13 PM, Mark Struberg wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> I basically share the sentiments Gavin posted on <a href="http://in.relation.to/" target="_blank">in.relation.to</a>. We<br>
> could do it but we really should be picky and don't let the oldschool (call<br>
> it 'unsexy') EJB and EE like styled XML schema make it into the spec but<br>
> rather build on top of the namespace->package based syntax we had in the<br>
> original CDI draft.<br>
>>><br>
>>> BUT:<br>
>>><br>
>>> 1.) we need to be aware that XML schemas are NOT that easy to change<br>
> later! Thus if we see that we have forgotten something, then we are doomed for<br>
> the future... And this situation is highly likely imo since getting this part<br>
> right is not exactly easy.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> 2.) writing a water-safe spec for this might get pretty hard. Expect to<br>
> add 20 more pages to our spec...<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> 3.) There is one de-facto standard for it already, which is seam-XML.<br>
> CODI nor any other CDI Extension project will introduce any similar stuff<br>
> because Seam-XML is working fine and has a perfectly business friendly license.<br>
> So I'm not sure which benefit writing it into the spec would bring. I see no<br>
> benefit over the current situation for CDI containers nor end-users. Au<br>
> contraire: if we hit an error in seam-xml, then it's easy to get this fixed<br>
> centrally.<br>
>>><br>
>>> LieGrue,<br>
>>> strub<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>> I agree 100%. We already have a standards compliant and portable<br>
> implementation of XML configuration, thanks to CDI portable extensions. I really<br>
> don't see the benefit of writing this into the spec.<br>
>><br>
>> Stuart<br>
><br>
> While the implementation itself adheres to the CDI extension standard,<br>
> it in itself is not a standard.<br>
><br>
> The question I have is, would users and vendors want to have CDI<br>
> extensions themselves be standardized?<br>
><br>
> I think there is value in having some CDI extensions be certified. Not<br>
> just being a de-facto.<br>
> (Remember how Seam and Hibernate became de-jure.)<br>
><br>
> Now this should in no way be attached to the CDI spec itself. Each<br>
> extension spec should have its independent lifecycle, so it can be<br>
> updated or deprecated at whim.<br>
><br>
> I would even say that EJB 4 would make a nice case.<br>
> (Although calling it EJB 4 would be so wrong. ;-) )<br>
><br>
> Carlo<br>
><br>
>>><br>
>>>> ________________________________<br>
>>>> From: Rick Hightower<<a href="mailto:richardhightower@gmail.com">richardhightower@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>> To: Pete Muir<<a href="mailto:pmuir@redhat.com">pmuir@redhat.com</a>><br>
>>>> Cc: Mark Struberg<<a href="mailto:struberg@yahoo.de">struberg@yahoo.de</a>>;<br>
> cdi-dev<<a href="mailto:cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org">cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org</a>><br>
>>>> Sent: Friday, October 7, 2011 12:03 AM<br>
>>>> Subject: Re: [cdi-dev] CDI 1.1 EDR1 posted :-)<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I feel we need it too. I guess this goes without saying though.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 2:51 PM, Pete Muir<<a href="mailto:pmuir@redhat.com">pmuir@redhat.com</a>> <br>
> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I've received a lot of feedback at JavaOne that XML config is<br>
> something people want to see in the standard. So I would like to revisit this<br>
> question.<br>
>>>>> Feel free to discuss now, or I'll start with a proposal in<br>
> a few weeks :-)<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On 5 Oct 2011, at 23:43, Mark Struberg wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Fine thing.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Although I see a few issues which I'd rather like to<br>
> keep off core CDI as they are very easy to implement as portable Extensions<br>
> (e.g. the XML config stuff CDI-123).<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> We really must take care that we don't add things which<br>
> bloats the CDI core spec with 20 pages which are hard to get right.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Instead we should really focus on things which are<br>
> fundamental basics and thus cannot be done via a portable Extension.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> LieGrue,<br>
>>>>>> strub<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----<br>
>>>>>>> From: Pete Muir<<a href="mailto:pmuir@redhat.com">pmuir@redhat.com</a>><br>
>>>>>>> To: cdi-dev<<a href="mailto:cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org">cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org</a>><br>
>>>>>>> Cc:<br>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2011 2:21 AM<br>
>>>>>>> Subject: [cdi-dev] CDI 1.1 EDR1 posted :-)<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
> <a href="http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/ContextsAndDependencyInjection11EarlyDraftSubmitted" target="_blank">http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/ContextsAndDependencyInjection11EarlyDraftSubmitted</a><br>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>>> cdi-dev mailing list<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org">cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org</a><br>
>>>>>>> <a href="https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/cdi-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/cdi-dev</a><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> cdi-dev mailing list<br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org">cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org</a><br>
>>>>> <a href="https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/cdi-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/cdi-dev</a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> --<br>
>>>> Rick Hightower<br>
>>>> <a href="tel:%28415%29%20968-9037" value="+14159689037">(415) 968-9037</a><br>
>>>> Profile<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
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>><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><b>Rick Hightower</b><br>(415) 968-9037 <br><a href="http://www.google.com/profiles/RichardHightower" target="_blank">Profile</a> <br><br>
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