[hibernate-dev] Hibernate Developer IRC meeting - 5/03

Sanne Grinovero sanne at hibernate.org
Fri May 4 05:58:30 EDT 2012

tricky subject.
I'm confident that there are many cases in which we should have used
arrays rather than maps, especially for temporary objects which aren't
short lived enough (an HashMap living in the scope of a single method
is going to be cheap). We should have either objects allocated for
very long (like forever in the scope of the SessionFactory), or very

In the case of how we keep metadata, I think performance would be
dominated not that much by the fact it's a slightly bigger object but
by prefetching and what is going to be available in the cache lines
you just have filled in: obviously cache is way faster than memory so
being clever in the sequence you lay out your data structure could
speed you up by a couple of orders of magnitude.

Using primitives and array matrixes makes the data smaller, hence more
likely to fit in the cache; but if using an array of objects in which
each object collects the needed fields in one group, that's likely
going to be faster.. but I'm making assumptions on how this structure
is going to be read more frequently.

For example when declaring a matrix as an [ ][ ], performance will be
very different depending if you read by columns or rows - forgot which
one is better now - but in that case if the common use case is using
the slower path it's usually a good idea to invert the matrix.

I'd love it if we could enter this space, or even if it's not suited
for it, at least be considered "lite":


On 4 May 2012 10:07, Emmanuel Bernard <emmanuel at hibernate.org> wrote:
> Performance I don't know, you are probably right. But memory wise, that could be way different.
> Even ignoring the overhead of the object + pointer in memory, the alignment of boolean or other small objects would make a significant impact.
> Of course if we are talking about 20 values, we should not bother. But persisters and the like store more than 20 values and we have more than one persister / loader. It might be inconsequential in the end but that might be worth testing.
> On a related note it's up for debate whether or not putting data in a hash map for faster lookup later is worth it in all cases:
> - it takes much more space than raw arrays
> - array scan might be as fast or faster for a small enough array. As we have seen in Infinispan and OGM, computing a hash is not a cheap operation.
> Again this require testing but I am guilty as charge of using collections in AnnotationBinder when doing some computations that would be better off written as an array + array scan.
> On 3 mai 2012, at 19:32, Steve Ebersole wrote:
>> I seriously doubt the performance cost of 20 'parallel arrays' versus 1 array of Objects holding those 20 values is anything but negligible at best.
>> On Thu 03 May 2012 11:04:30 AM CDT, Emmanuel Bernard wrote:
>>> Sorry I could not assist the meeting live but reviewed the logs and had some remarks, so ehre are the logs and my remarks :)
>>> ## Meeting logs
>>> http://transcripts.jboss.org/meeting/irc.freenode.org/hibernate-dev/2012/hibernate-dev.2012-05-03-14.01.html
>>> Minutes (text):http://transcripts.jboss.org/meeting/irc.freenode.org/hibernate-dev/2012/hibernate-dev.2012-05-03-14.01.txt
>>> Log:            http://transcripts.jboss.org/meeting/irc.freenode.org/hibernate-dev/2012/hibernate-dev.2012-05-03-14.01.log.html
>>> ## About parallel arrays vs arrays of objects
>>> Even today, there is a cost in using Objects or HashMap as data placeholders. This might not be relevant for us especially since we are not using them for "live" data but since memory footprint has always been a concern for Hibernate, it's worth mentioning.
>>> This presentation is quite interesting and show the extra memory cost of such structure compared to arrays http://www.cs.virginia.edu/kim/publicity/pldi09tutorials/memory-efficient-java-tutorial.pdf
>>> ## PessimisticLockException versus LockAcquisitionException
>>> I am not certain of that and Git history got cut short with the migration of entitymanager into core. But I do have recollections of some lock exceptions that were not catch up and I had to use PessimisticLockException. It could have been a change triggered by the TCK. Again I might be wrong, it was a long time ago. Plus ORM's core has evolved since.
>>> Emmanuel
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> --
>> steve at hibernate.org
>> http://hibernate.org
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