From sanne at hibernate.org  Fri Nov  2 06:46:22 2018
From: sanne at hibernate.org (Sanne Grinovero)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 10:46:22 +0000
Subject: [hibernate-dev] JIRA self-registration of users
Message-ID: <CAFm4XO2bqv7McT-Z4+whf_Vd0kTfTXJv9L1YtrUAyLQ=wSnMYA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I'm receiving requests to approve people who are creating accounts on JIRA.

While it's good to see lots of people interested in registering, I've
never had to approve these before.

Did someone change settings or should I report this to Atlassian?

Thanks,
Sanne

From yoann at hibernate.org  Fri Nov  2 07:14:17 2018
From: yoann at hibernate.org (Yoann Rodiere)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 12:14:17 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] JIRA self-registration of users
In-Reply-To: <CAFm4XO2bqv7McT-Z4+whf_Vd0kTfTXJv9L1YtrUAyLQ=wSnMYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFm4XO2bqv7McT-Z4+whf_Vd0kTfTXJv9L1YtrUAyLQ=wSnMYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqagpp18PeBCTR0PijMTYc8==nbK2OxJJhc627PZ1qzxNJ-Cg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I didn't change the settings recently.


Yoann Rodi?re
Hibernate NoORM Team
yoann at hibernate.org


On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 at 12:03, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm receiving requests to approve people who are creating accounts on JIRA.
>
> While it's good to see lots of people interested in registering, I've
> never had to approve these before.
>
> Did someone change settings or should I report this to Atlassian?
>
> Thanks,
> Sanne
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>

From crancran at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 07:18:31 2018
From: crancran at gmail.com (Chris Cranford)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 07:18:31 -0400
Subject: [hibernate-dev] JIRA self-registration of users
In-Reply-To: <CAEqagpp18PeBCTR0PijMTYc8==nbK2OxJJhc627PZ1qzxNJ-Cg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFm4XO2bqv7McT-Z4+whf_Vd0kTfTXJv9L1YtrUAyLQ=wSnMYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpp18PeBCTR0PijMTYc8==nbK2OxJJhc627PZ1qzxNJ-Cg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ea50d42-5de3-85dd-cd3e-193d3111fbed@gmail.com>

Sanne -

Same here, I haven't changed anything.

Chris

On 11/2/18 7:14 AM, Yoann Rodiere wrote:
> I didn't change the settings recently.
>
> On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 at 12:03, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm receiving requests to approve people who are creating accounts on JIRA.
>>
>> While it's good to see lots of people interested in registering, I've
>> never had to approve these before.
>>
>> Did someone change settings or should I report this to Atlassian?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sanne
>> _______________________________________________
>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev


From guillaume.smet at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 07:23:23 2018
From: guillaume.smet at gmail.com (Guillaume Smet)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 12:23:23 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] JIRA self-registration of users
In-Reply-To: <CAEqagpp18PeBCTR0PijMTYc8==nbK2OxJJhc627PZ1qzxNJ-Cg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFm4XO2bqv7McT-Z4+whf_Vd0kTfTXJv9L1YtrUAyLQ=wSnMYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpp18PeBCTR0PijMTYc8==nbK2OxJJhc627PZ1qzxNJ-Cg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALt0+o9yuy2gxi8yogg=ig-Xzzb4eoQXVxvi1b9t8xAeuSq85g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Not sure it's related but when I go to JIRA on my mobile phone (probably
not logged in), I have a popup asking to log in that I have to close.
Sometimes it reappears once again when I close it.

I don't have this behavior when using Firefox on my laptop, even when
signed out but that might explain some people creating an account.

-- 
Guillaume



On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:14 PM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I didn't change the settings recently.
>
>
> Yoann Rodi?re
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yoann at hibernate.org
>
>
> On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 at 12:03, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm receiving requests to approve people who are creating accounts on
> JIRA.
> >
> > While it's good to see lots of people interested in registering, I've
> > never had to approve these before.
> >
> > Did someone change settings or should I report this to Atlassian?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Sanne
> > _______________________________________________
> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

From guillaume.smet at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 10:41:02 2018
From: guillaume.smet at gmail.com (Guillaume Smet)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 15:41:02 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Boolean with null values and SAP SQL Anywhere
Message-ID: <CALt0+o-_MatTTkpDq=6n6gCZsrdf6Lb+ai0sL3XH_Gg3SN9GFg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Quite some time ago, someone opened
https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-12850 stating that null values
were not supported for Booleans with SAP SQL Anywhere.

This is due to the fact that null values are not supported for bits and we
should use a tinyint. Interestingly enough, it was fixed for Sybase here:
https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-5413 .

Changing this will probably lead to compatibility issues but I think a note
in the migration guide requiring a migration from bit to tinyint would be
sufficient and 5.4.0 would be a good opportunity to do it.

Thoughts?

-- 
Guillaume

From steve at hibernate.org  Fri Nov  2 11:14:34 2018
From: steve at hibernate.org (Steve Ebersole)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 10:14:34 -0500
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Boolean with null values and SAP SQL Anywhere
In-Reply-To: <CALt0+o-_MatTTkpDq=6n6gCZsrdf6Lb+ai0sL3XH_Gg3SN9GFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALt0+o-_MatTTkpDq=6n6gCZsrdf6Lb+ai0sL3XH_Gg3SN9GFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFdSV9uYf0dBUXQA_xo4KBg2tQQpWxzmWNCsZY=hhnmpKTPenQ@mail.gmail.com>

In the general sense, it ultimately comes down to how one views the
situation.  Is it a bug?  Then I think it is reasonable to just change it
and mention it in the migration guide.  If it is an enhancement, then I
think a setting makes sense to control this.

Honestly though, not sure this has a big compatibility impact.

On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 10:00 AM Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Quite some time ago, someone opened
> https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-12850 stating that null values
> were not supported for Booleans with SAP SQL Anywhere.
>
> This is due to the fact that null values are not supported for bits and we
> should use a tinyint. Interestingly enough, it was fixed for Sybase here:
> https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-5413 .
>
> Changing this will probably lead to compatibility issues but I think a note
> in the migration guide requiring a migration from bit to tinyint would be
> sufficient and 5.4.0 would be a good opportunity to do it.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> --
> Guillaume
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>

From guillaume.smet at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 11:18:31 2018
From: guillaume.smet at gmail.com (Guillaume Smet)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 16:18:31 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Should LiteralExpression support Enum?
In-Reply-To: <CAFDzhiTpd7=Qr5bb9pi0bxA7rM+6Vfx9hnVTjfsQw_iN9FRDUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALt0+o9Qs3x7BByyqt2xC25O7H=9ac9Z_aX2h_JHBDCVjjP1nw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFDzhiTpd7=Qr5bb9pi0bxA7rM+6Vfx9hnVTjfsQw_iN9FRDUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALt0+o96nxJDgbgCKybEVKgmzobuvHCChEb-6heLoYgiSurtaQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Getting back to this issue.

If it were only for the render() case, I would have registered the enums as
parameters as done before, in all cases.

But considering the renderProjection() case where we should avoid
parameters, I wonder if we should register a ValueHandler for enums.

Obviously, literal expressions should not be used to build predicates on
enum columns as they could be stored as ordinals but it would be good
enough to bring back 5.1 compatibility.

WDYT?

-- 
Guillaume

On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 8:57 PM Gail Badner <gbadner at redhat.com> wrote:

> HHH-13016 looks like a duplicate of HHH-12184. Both mention that this
> worked in 5.1.10.
>
> The spec is clear that, for queries, this is supported. The overview for
> Criteria API states, "The semantics of criteria queries are designed to
> reflect those of Java Persistence query language queries."
>
>  IMO, this should be supported for Critera queries as well.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 5:30 AM Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We had an interesting test case posted this week-end, namely
>> https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/pull/2562/files .
>>
>> Apparently, enums as result of case expressions were (sort of) supported
>> in
>> 5.1, whereas they are not anymore in 5.3: you end up with a NPE.
>>
>> The issue is that we don't have a ValueHandler for enums and thus the
>> handler in
>>
>> https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/blob/master/hibernate-core/src/main/java/org/hibernate/query/criteria/internal/expression/LiteralExpression.java#L88
>> is null.
>>
>> Not sure if it's something we should support tbh. I mean you can use the
>> name of the enum instead and I think it would be good enough.
>>
>> But even if we decide to not support it, I think we should probably
>> provide
>> a better error than a NPE.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> --
>> Guillaume
>> _______________________________________________
>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
>

From guillaume.smet at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 11:20:25 2018
From: guillaume.smet at gmail.com (Guillaume Smet)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 16:20:25 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Boolean with null values and SAP SQL Anywhere
In-Reply-To: <CAFdSV9uYf0dBUXQA_xo4KBg2tQQpWxzmWNCsZY=hhnmpKTPenQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALt0+o-_MatTTkpDq=6n6gCZsrdf6Lb+ai0sL3XH_Gg3SN9GFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9uYf0dBUXQA_xo4KBg2tQQpWxzmWNCsZY=hhnmpKTPenQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALt0+o86=eb103M3fg=61aFj77OkFDc+W-y=qp5A5PgDhK2-fg@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah, personally, I think it's a bug, e.g. this type shouldn't have been
used in the first place.

But as it works when not storing nulls in the column, YMMV depending if you
use null or not.

My vote goes to fix + note in the migration guide.

Gail, what's your take on this one?

Thanks!


On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:14 PM Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:

> In the general sense, it ultimately comes down to how one views the
> situation.  Is it a bug?  Then I think it is reasonable to just change it
> and mention it in the migration guide.  If it is an enhancement, then I
> think a setting makes sense to control this.
>
> Honestly though, not sure this has a big compatibility impact.
>
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 10:00 AM Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Quite some time ago, someone opened
>> https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-12850 stating that null values
>> were not supported for Booleans with SAP SQL Anywhere.
>>
>> This is due to the fact that null values are not supported for bits and we
>> should use a tinyint. Interestingly enough, it was fixed for Sybase here:
>> https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-5413 .
>>
>> Changing this will probably lead to compatibility issues but I think a
>> note
>> in the migration guide requiring a migration from bit to tinyint would be
>> sufficient and 5.4.0 would be a good opportunity to do it.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> --
>> Guillaume
>> _______________________________________________
>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
>

From steve at hibernate.org  Sat Nov  3 08:34:44 2018
From: steve at hibernate.org (Steve Ebersole)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2018 07:34:44 -0500
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Chat migration - D minus 115 until the death of
	HipChat
In-Reply-To: <CAFm4XO31HS2KN5v2rGYjcDf23+2+NC_97oKn2_RLK-HPC5usGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEqagpqit=rUeNA+ZagM0NYA2rPhxXspqRDRQuNq-UqmMnLppg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO31HS2KN5v2rGYjcDf23+2+NC_97oKn2_RLK-HPC5usGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFdSV9s4UFG4JyPp=k+0pMyY8K-Es4TyOr9-CEHzGH2U4bT33Q@mail.gmail.com>

Any consensus on this yet?

On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:21 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org> wrote:

> Thanks for starting this!
>
> The choice of IRC is a bit special on the list as we never intended it
> to be killed: it has been historically important and we should
> maintain some level of reachability on it.  So voting for the "IRC"
> choice just means a preference to not use anything else on top of it,
> while alternatively we'' be using X on top of IRC, albeit with a
> preference to use X for team conversations.
>
> Also good to remind: please try to be on IRC as well occasionally as
> many in the OSS community we integrate with will reach out there.
>
> Thanks,
> Sanne
>
> On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 at 09:46, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > TL;DR: please vote here if you don't want to end up having to use a chat
> > tool you don't like: https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
> >
> > HipChat Cloud will stop working on February 15th, 2019 [1]. We need to
> > choose an alternative before we have our back against the wall, so I'll
> try
> > to resurrect the conversation.
> >
> > As a reminder, Stride is no longer an option: Atlassian cancelled the
> > project, and encourages users to migrate to Slack.
> >
> > The discussed options so far were:
> >
> >    - *Moving back to IRC*. Aye: ?; nay: ?
> >    Pros: simple as hell.
> >    Cons: basic as hell; we won't keep the chat history.
> >    - *Migrating to Slack* [6], as suggested by Atlassian [2]. Aye:
> >    Christian B; Nay: ?
> >    Pros: we will keep the chat history (I think).
> >    Cons: not open-source; desktop client consumes a lot of resources.
> >    - *Migrating to Zulip* [3]. Aye: Emmanuel, Yoann. Nay: Guillaume (kind
> >    of).
> >    Pros: Advanced conversation management thanks to the "topics" feature.
> >    Cons: Complex to use because of the "topics" feature; we won't keep
> the
> >    chat history (1).
> >    - *Migrating to Gitter* [5] (we'll create different rooms, probably).
> >    Aye: ?, Nay: ?
> >    Pros: Users seem to actually go there, so we could have our "live
> >    support" rooms next to our "internal discussion" rooms.
> >    Cons: not open-source; we won't keep the chat history (1).
> >
> > I created a poll based on the discussion we had on the thread
> > "[hibernate-dev] Stride". I think everyone had the time to suggest
> another
> > option.
> >
> > Please vote here and now, or remain silent forever ;):
> > https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
> >
> > I'd suggest the following rules: if there's a single clear winner (a
> > platform that everyone would be happy with), we'll pick that one. If
> there
> > are multiple clear winners, whoever does the migration work will pick
> > what's easier to set up (taking into account the various integrations).
> > Otherwise, back to discussing it on this thread...
> >
> > (1) There seems to be some work in progress on a migration tool from
> > HipChat to Zulip, but it doesn't seem to be ready yet [4]
> >
> > [1]
> >
> https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/faq#faq-da2b66a1-53d3-4c4e-a405-467d961336f7
> > [2] https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/migration
> > [3] https://hibernate.zulipchat.com/
> > [4] https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/10647
> > [5] https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-orm
> > [6] https://slackdemo.com/
> >
> > Yoann Rodi?re
> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > yoann at hibernate.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

From yoann at hibernate.org  Mon Nov  5 02:25:21 2018
From: yoann at hibernate.org (Yoann Rodiere)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2018 08:25:21 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Chat migration - D minus 115 until the death of
	HipChat
In-Reply-To: <CAFdSV9s4UFG4JyPp=k+0pMyY8K-Es4TyOr9-CEHzGH2U4bT33Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEqagpqit=rUeNA+ZagM0NYA2rPhxXspqRDRQuNq-UqmMnLppg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO31HS2KN5v2rGYjcDf23+2+NC_97oKn2_RLK-HPC5usGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9s4UFG4JyPp=k+0pMyY8K-Es4TyOr9-CEHzGH2U4bT33Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqagpo83hCQqcFV5vgxEPSJH8wDLNVwyPmjiBoqB2NmRDFzkA@mail.gmail.com>

Not everyone voted, far from it; we're missing votes from Gail, Guillaume,
Fabio, Chris, Davide, Emmanuel, Koen. So no, no consensus yet.

I sent an email to them off-list, perhaps they didn't see this thread.

Provisional results are as follows:

IRC: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no
Slack: 2 Yes, 2 "if need be", 4 no
Zulip: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no
Gitter: 6 Yes, 0 "if need be", 2 no

So Gitter seems on the verge of winning, but apparently some people are
categorically against it, so I'd say we'll have to give them a chance to
explain why. I'll wait for everyone to answer, though, since they could
completely change the results.

Yoann Rodi?re
Hibernate NoORM Team
yoann at hibernate.org


On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 13:35, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:

> Any consensus on this yet?
>
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:21 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for starting this!
>>
>> The choice of IRC is a bit special on the list as we never intended it
>> to be killed: it has been historically important and we should
>> maintain some level of reachability on it.  So voting for the "IRC"
>> choice just means a preference to not use anything else on top of it,
>> while alternatively we'' be using X on top of IRC, albeit with a
>> preference to use X for team conversations.
>>
>> Also good to remind: please try to be on IRC as well occasionally as
>> many in the OSS community we integrate with will reach out there.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sanne
>>
>> On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 at 09:46, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > TL;DR: please vote here if you don't want to end up having to use a chat
>> > tool you don't like: https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
>> >
>> > HipChat Cloud will stop working on February 15th, 2019 [1]. We need to
>> > choose an alternative before we have our back against the wall, so I'll
>> try
>> > to resurrect the conversation.
>> >
>> > As a reminder, Stride is no longer an option: Atlassian cancelled the
>> > project, and encourages users to migrate to Slack.
>> >
>> > The discussed options so far were:
>> >
>> >    - *Moving back to IRC*. Aye: ?; nay: ?
>> >    Pros: simple as hell.
>> >    Cons: basic as hell; we won't keep the chat history.
>> >    - *Migrating to Slack* [6], as suggested by Atlassian [2]. Aye:
>> >    Christian B; Nay: ?
>> >    Pros: we will keep the chat history (I think).
>> >    Cons: not open-source; desktop client consumes a lot of resources.
>> >    - *Migrating to Zulip* [3]. Aye: Emmanuel, Yoann. Nay: Guillaume
>> (kind
>> >    of).
>> >    Pros: Advanced conversation management thanks to the "topics"
>> feature.
>> >    Cons: Complex to use because of the "topics" feature; we won't keep
>> the
>> >    chat history (1).
>> >    - *Migrating to Gitter* [5] (we'll create different rooms, probably).
>> >    Aye: ?, Nay: ?
>> >    Pros: Users seem to actually go there, so we could have our "live
>> >    support" rooms next to our "internal discussion" rooms.
>> >    Cons: not open-source; we won't keep the chat history (1).
>> >
>> > I created a poll based on the discussion we had on the thread
>> > "[hibernate-dev] Stride". I think everyone had the time to suggest
>> another
>> > option.
>> >
>> > Please vote here and now, or remain silent forever ;):
>> > https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
>> >
>> > I'd suggest the following rules: if there's a single clear winner (a
>> > platform that everyone would be happy with), we'll pick that one. If
>> there
>> > are multiple clear winners, whoever does the migration work will pick
>> > what's easier to set up (taking into account the various integrations).
>> > Otherwise, back to discussing it on this thread...
>> >
>> > (1) There seems to be some work in progress on a migration tool from
>> > HipChat to Zulip, but it doesn't seem to be ready yet [4]
>> >
>> > [1]
>> >
>> https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/faq#faq-da2b66a1-53d3-4c4e-a405-467d961336f7
>> > [2] https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/migration
>> > [3] https://hibernate.zulipchat.com/
>> > [4] https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/10647
>> > [5] https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-orm
>> > [6] https://slackdemo.com/
>> >
>> > Yoann Rodi?re
>> > Hibernate NoORM Team
>> > yoann at hibernate.org
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>
>

From guillaume.smet at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 06:54:13 2018
From: guillaume.smet at gmail.com (Guillaume Smet)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2018 12:54:13 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Releasing a new "major" HCANN version for ORM 5.4
Message-ID: <CALt0+o8XsDHJ1McxPdOoXORDytKN1Zvbuim415y4gAdEizeOxA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Sanne merged
https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-commons-annotations/pull/11 into
HCANN master a while ago, master that is currently labelled as 6.

Wondering if we should release a HCANN 5.1.0 containing this fix (not sure
a 6 is needed for that but I don't really mind if some of you prefer 6) to
be consumed by ORM 5.4.0.

That would allow to merge
https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/pull/2050 and remove the
java.util restriction on collections which seems like a good thing.

What do you all think?

-- 
Guillaume

From guillaume.smet at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 09:27:50 2018
From: guillaume.smet at gmail.com (Guillaume Smet)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2018 15:27:50 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Wrapping up 5.4.0
Message-ID: <CALt0+o8X4njpZk3-pAD12h4mhF4GTUNhBR39xy1W_Z8Zawui0A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

If everybody is OK with it, I would like to wrap 5.4.0.CR1 on Wednesday
14th (this is next Wednesday).

That means that everything we want in 5.4.0 should be in by then.

The big remaining subject IMHO is this one:
https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/pull/2611 . I think we really
need that in.

Chris, Gail, do you think you can drive this puppy home before then?

If you have issues affected to you that you know won't be fixed before next
Wednesday, can you please move them to 5.4.1 so that we have a clear vision
of the remaining work?

Steve, could you please prepare a paragraph about the entity graph work for
the announcement? As it's the big new feature of this release, some code
showing the improvements made would be welcome, I think.

Thanks!

-- 
Guillaume

From guillaume.smet at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 10:53:01 2018
From: guillaume.smet at gmail.com (Guillaume Smet)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2018 16:53:01 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] [ORM] Releasing 5.2.18?
Message-ID: <CALt0+o8=WZcEv5gTyAKdiijMjnbPE0nAJcNMOXsCDABTpib5OQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

So, I was thinking (again) about releasing a 5.2.18.

https://hibernate.atlassian.net/projects/HHH/versions/31663/tab/release-report-todo
says:

- we have 4 issues about adding stuff to the migration notes. Gail, do you
still think it's useful? Maybe for people going from 5.1 to 5.3? How much
work would it be? E.g. if it's a 2 hours effort, it sounds like a good
investment but if it's a 2 days effort, not so much.

- This issue is bugging me a bit
https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-12251 as it's a regression
introduced in 5.2.13. Would somebody have time to take a look at it (once
the 5.4.0 related tasks are done)? AFAIK, Vlad already put a test case
together. If not, I suppose we would just move it to 5.4-backlog and
consider it for 5.4. (Or release another 5.2.x later if the fix is
backportable).

- https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-12276 - This one was already
present in 5.0 so it's low priority for me. I would vote for keeping it for
later.

Thanks for the feedback.

-- 
Guillaume

From steve at hibernate.org  Mon Nov  5 12:04:05 2018
From: steve at hibernate.org (Steve Ebersole)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2018 11:04:05 -0600
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Releasing a new "major" HCANN version for ORM
	5.4
In-Reply-To: <CALt0+o8XsDHJ1McxPdOoXORDytKN1Zvbuim415y4gAdEizeOxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALt0+o8XsDHJ1McxPdOoXORDytKN1Zvbuim415y4gAdEizeOxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFdSV9vXRQjF6fbws94FgCX4m_MoyVxQ0Ve1fOau4cf4QFqriA@mail.gmail.com>

Personally I would not use 6 as the version following the "goal" of trying
to align major versions across projects where feasible (and here I think it
is feasible).

But +1 to releasing 5.1.0

On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 10:43 AM Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Sanne merged
> https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-commons-annotations/pull/11 into
> HCANN master a while ago, master that is currently labelled as 6.
>
> Wondering if we should release a HCANN 5.1.0 containing this fix (not sure
> a 6 is needed for that but I don't really mind if some of you prefer 6) to
> be consumed by ORM 5.4.0.
>
> That would allow to merge
> https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/pull/2050 and remove the
> java.util restriction on collections which seems like a good thing.
>
> What do you all think?
>
> --
> Guillaume
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>

From gbadner at redhat.com  Mon Nov  5 16:04:12 2018
From: gbadner at redhat.com (Gail Badner)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2018 13:04:12 -0800
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Boolean with null values and SAP SQL Anywhere
In-Reply-To: <CALt0+o86=eb103M3fg=61aFj77OkFDc+W-y=qp5A5PgDhK2-fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALt0+o-_MatTTkpDq=6n6gCZsrdf6Lb+ai0sL3XH_Gg3SN9GFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9uYf0dBUXQA_xo4KBg2tQQpWxzmWNCsZY=hhnmpKTPenQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o86=eb103M3fg=61aFj77OkFDc+W-y=qp5A5PgDhK2-fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFDzhiRbj9qy8aa_0T3v3NzLFoYj0AEooKYMYf326Vur4YDjOw@mail.gmail.com>

+1 to fix + note in the migration guide.

On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 8:29 AM Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Yeah, personally, I think it's a bug, e.g. this type shouldn't have been
> used in the first place.
>
> But as it works when not storing nulls in the column, YMMV depending if you
> use null or not.
>
> My vote goes to fix + note in the migration guide.
>
> Gail, what's your take on this one?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:14 PM Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
> > In the general sense, it ultimately comes down to how one views the
> > situation.  Is it a bug?  Then I think it is reasonable to just change it
> > and mention it in the migration guide.  If it is an enhancement, then I
> > think a setting makes sense to control this.
> >
> > Honestly though, not sure this has a big compatibility impact.
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 10:00 AM Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Quite some time ago, someone opened
> >> https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-12850 stating that null
> values
> >> were not supported for Booleans with SAP SQL Anywhere.
> >>
> >> This is due to the fact that null values are not supported for bits and
> we
> >> should use a tinyint. Interestingly enough, it was fixed for Sybase
> here:
> >> https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-5413 .
> >>
> >> Changing this will probably lead to compatibility issues but I think a
> >> note
> >> in the migration guide requiring a migration from bit to tinyint would
> be
> >> sufficient and 5.4.0 would be a good opportunity to do it.
> >>
> >> Thoughts?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Guillaume
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>

From steve at hibernate.org  Mon Nov  5 18:41:34 2018
From: steve at hibernate.org (Steve Ebersole)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2018 17:41:34 -0600
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Wrapping up 5.4.0
In-Reply-To: <CALt0+o8X4njpZk3-pAD12h4mhF4GTUNhBR39xy1W_Z8Zawui0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALt0+o8X4njpZk3-pAD12h4mhF4GTUNhBR39xy1W_Z8Zawui0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFdSV9sgiq13ncqB33JSc1d1YBER4NKKJX_eccrCg+T=gYWdZQ@mail.gmail.com>

With regard to entity graphs, the only new piece is the "parse a string
representation" feature.  I'll write up a release notes blurb with a simple
code sample, but the new documentation sections cover this feature very
in-depth.



On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 12:07 PM Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> If everybody is OK with it, I would like to wrap 5.4.0.CR1 on Wednesday
> 14th (this is next Wednesday).
>
> That means that everything we want in 5.4.0 should be in by then.
>
> The big remaining subject IMHO is this one:
> https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/pull/2611 . I think we really
> need that in.
>
> Chris, Gail, do you think you can drive this puppy home before then?
>
> If you have issues affected to you that you know won't be fixed before next
> Wednesday, can you please move them to 5.4.1 so that we have a clear vision
> of the remaining work?
>
> Steve, could you please prepare a paragraph about the entity graph work for
> the announcement? As it's the big new feature of this release, some code
> showing the improvements made would be welcome, I think.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Guillaume
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>

From yoann at hibernate.org  Tue Nov  6 05:40:42 2018
From: yoann at hibernate.org (Yoann Rodiere)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2018 11:40:42 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Chat migration - D minus 115 until the death of
	HipChat
In-Reply-To: <CAEqagpo83hCQqcFV5vgxEPSJH8wDLNVwyPmjiBoqB2NmRDFzkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEqagpqit=rUeNA+ZagM0NYA2rPhxXspqRDRQuNq-UqmMnLppg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO31HS2KN5v2rGYjcDf23+2+NC_97oKn2_RLK-HPC5usGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9s4UFG4JyPp=k+0pMyY8K-Es4TyOr9-CEHzGH2U4bT33Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpo83hCQqcFV5vgxEPSJH8wDLNVwyPmjiBoqB2NmRDFzkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqagpojJR4Xa0jGYjPcF1y7qaHjikbuYNAA2=-meGpJjPg99w@mail.gmail.com>

I think all day-to-day users of our chat voted. Here are the results:

IRC:     4 Yes, 5 "if need be", 6 no.
Slack:   5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no
Zulip:   5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no
Gitter: 10 Yes, 1 "if need be", 4 no

It seems Gitter won. That's the only option with more "Yes" than "No"...
It's got the most "Yes" (even counting "if need be"), and perhaps more
importantly it's got the least amount of "no".

To those who voted no: if you have specific concerns about Gitter, could
you please mention them here? Maybe we can find solutions to some of the
problems.

I'll look into moving the Hibernate Search chat to Gitter and will report
back on this thread.

Yoann Rodi?re
Hibernate NoORM Team
yoann at hibernate.org


On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 at 08:25, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:

> Not everyone voted, far from it; we're missing votes from Gail, Guillaume,
> Fabio, Chris, Davide, Emmanuel, Koen. So no, no consensus yet.
>
> I sent an email to them off-list, perhaps they didn't see this thread.
>
> Provisional results are as follows:
>
> IRC: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no
> Slack: 2 Yes, 2 "if need be", 4 no
> Zulip: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no
> Gitter: 6 Yes, 0 "if need be", 2 no
>
> So Gitter seems on the verge of winning, but apparently some people are
> categorically against it, so I'd say we'll have to give them a chance to
> explain why. I'll wait for everyone to answer, though, since they could
> completely change the results.
>
> Yoann Rodi?re
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yoann at hibernate.org
>
>
> On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 13:35, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
>> Any consensus on this yet?
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:21 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for starting this!
>>>
>>> The choice of IRC is a bit special on the list as we never intended it
>>> to be killed: it has been historically important and we should
>>> maintain some level of reachability on it.  So voting for the "IRC"
>>> choice just means a preference to not use anything else on top of it,
>>> while alternatively we'' be using X on top of IRC, albeit with a
>>> preference to use X for team conversations.
>>>
>>> Also good to remind: please try to be on IRC as well occasionally as
>>> many in the OSS community we integrate with will reach out there.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Sanne
>>>
>>> On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 at 09:46, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > TL;DR: please vote here if you don't want to end up having to use a
>>> chat
>>> > tool you don't like: https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
>>> >
>>> > HipChat Cloud will stop working on February 15th, 2019 [1]. We need to
>>> > choose an alternative before we have our back against the wall, so
>>> I'll try
>>> > to resurrect the conversation.
>>> >
>>> > As a reminder, Stride is no longer an option: Atlassian cancelled the
>>> > project, and encourages users to migrate to Slack.
>>> >
>>> > The discussed options so far were:
>>> >
>>> >    - *Moving back to IRC*. Aye: ?; nay: ?
>>> >    Pros: simple as hell.
>>> >    Cons: basic as hell; we won't keep the chat history.
>>> >    - *Migrating to Slack* [6], as suggested by Atlassian [2]. Aye:
>>> >    Christian B; Nay: ?
>>> >    Pros: we will keep the chat history (I think).
>>> >    Cons: not open-source; desktop client consumes a lot of resources.
>>> >    - *Migrating to Zulip* [3]. Aye: Emmanuel, Yoann. Nay: Guillaume
>>> (kind
>>> >    of).
>>> >    Pros: Advanced conversation management thanks to the "topics"
>>> feature.
>>> >    Cons: Complex to use because of the "topics" feature; we won't keep
>>> the
>>> >    chat history (1).
>>> >    - *Migrating to Gitter* [5] (we'll create different rooms,
>>> probably).
>>> >    Aye: ?, Nay: ?
>>> >    Pros: Users seem to actually go there, so we could have our "live
>>> >    support" rooms next to our "internal discussion" rooms.
>>> >    Cons: not open-source; we won't keep the chat history (1).
>>> >
>>> > I created a poll based on the discussion we had on the thread
>>> > "[hibernate-dev] Stride". I think everyone had the time to suggest
>>> another
>>> > option.
>>> >
>>> > Please vote here and now, or remain silent forever ;):
>>> > https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
>>> >
>>> > I'd suggest the following rules: if there's a single clear winner (a
>>> > platform that everyone would be happy with), we'll pick that one. If
>>> there
>>> > are multiple clear winners, whoever does the migration work will pick
>>> > what's easier to set up (taking into account the various integrations).
>>> > Otherwise, back to discussing it on this thread...
>>> >
>>> > (1) There seems to be some work in progress on a migration tool from
>>> > HipChat to Zulip, but it doesn't seem to be ready yet [4]
>>> >
>>> > [1]
>>> >
>>> https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/faq#faq-da2b66a1-53d3-4c4e-a405-467d961336f7
>>> > [2] https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/migration
>>> > [3] https://hibernate.zulipchat.com/
>>> > [4] https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/10647
>>> > [5] https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-orm
>>> > [6] https://slackdemo.com/
>>> >
>>> > Yoann Rodi?re
>>> > Hibernate NoORM Team
>>> > yoann at hibernate.org
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > hibernate-dev mailing list
>>> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
>>

From guillaume.smet at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 09:36:05 2018
From: guillaume.smet at gmail.com (Guillaume Smet)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2018 15:36:05 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] NoORM IRC meeting minutes
Message-ID: <CALt0+o9LpO0xLDXM=t2hmaDZv+fznkQQqv7dM=2uMKu-5RUq=g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Here are the minutes of this week's NoORM IRC meeting.

15:33 < jbott> Meeting ended Tue Nov  6 14:33:44 2018 UTC.  Information
about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
15:33 < jbott> Minutes:
http://transcripts.jboss.org/meeting/irc.freenode.org/hibernate-dev/2018/hibernate-dev.2018-11-06-14.00.html
15:33 < jbott> Minutes (text):
http://transcripts.jboss.org/meeting/irc.freenode.org/hibernate-dev/2018/hibernate-dev.2018-11-06-14.00.txt
15:33 < jbott> Log:
http://transcripts.jboss.org/meeting/irc.freenode.org/hibernate-dev/2018/hibernate-dev.2018-11-06-14.00.log.html

Cheers,

-- 
Guillaume

From steve at hibernate.org  Tue Nov  6 10:48:24 2018
From: steve at hibernate.org (Steve Ebersole)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2018 09:48:24 -0600
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Wrapping up 5.4.0
In-Reply-To: <CAFdSV9sgiq13ncqB33JSc1d1YBER4NKKJX_eccrCg+T=gYWdZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALt0+o8X4njpZk3-pAD12h4mhF4GTUNhBR39xy1W_Z8Zawui0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9sgiq13ncqB33JSc1d1YBER4NKKJX_eccrCg+T=gYWdZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFdSV9t4kd6hiE5NwR1od+xxyzTYWCzkm4UB8vG6rx2n6mGYnw@mail.gmail.com>

JPA's EntityGraph feature is cumbersome to define and use.  Hibernate 5.4
adds 2 new features to help make working with EntityGraphs easier.

*EntityGraph parsing*

The first feature is the ability to create a graph from a String
representation.  E.g., given a Person entity, we might want to make sure
the Person's spouse is eagerly fetched:
````
    final EntityGraph eg = org.hibernate.graph.EntityGraphs.parse(
Person.class, "spouse", entityManager );
    final Person personAndSpouse = entityManager.find( Person.class, 1,
Collections.singletonMap( "javax.persistence.fetchgraph", eg );
````

This parsing supports all of the features of EntityGraph creation including
sub-graphs (though see second feature) and sub-class graphs.  See the
documentation for in-depth discussion and examples.

*EntityGraph manipulation*

This is mainly about combining graphs.  E.g.

````
    final EntityGraph eg1 = org.hibernate.graph.EntityGraphs.parse(
Person.class, "spouse", entityManager );
    final EntityGraph eg2 = org.hibernate.graph.EntityGraphs.parse(
Person.class, "spouse(age, dob)", entityManager );
    final EntityGraph combinedGraph
= org.hibernate.graph.EntityGraphs#merge( entityManager, Person.class, eg1,
eg2 )
    final Person personAndSpouse = entityManager.find( Person.class, 1,
Collections.singletonMap( "javax.persistence.fetchgraph", combinedGraph );
````

This is a very trivial example meant just for illustration.  It can
actually be much more easily defined as:

````
    final EntityGraph combinedGraph =
org.hibernate.graph.EntityGraphs.parse( Person.class, "spouse( age, dob )",
entityManager );
    final Person personAndSpouse = entityManager.find( Person.class, 1,
Collections.singletonMap( "javax.persistence.fetchgraph", combinedGraph );
````


P.S. Looking back at this, I wonder if we want to combine
`org.hibernate.graph.GraphParser` into `org.hibernate.graph.EntityGraphs`.
As-is, users wanting to use both of these features above would need to
import both of those classes.  What do y'all think?


On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 5:41 PM Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:

> With regard to entity graphs, the only new piece is the "parse a string
> representation" feature.  I'll write up a release notes blurb with a simple
> code sample, but the new documentation sections cover this feature very
> in-depth.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 12:07 PM Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> If everybody is OK with it, I would like to wrap 5.4.0.CR1 on Wednesday
>> 14th (this is next Wednesday).
>>
>> That means that everything we want in 5.4.0 should be in by then.
>>
>> The big remaining subject IMHO is this one:
>> https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/pull/2611 . I think we really
>> need that in.
>>
>> Chris, Gail, do you think you can drive this puppy home before then?
>>
>> If you have issues affected to you that you know won't be fixed before
>> next
>> Wednesday, can you please move them to 5.4.1 so that we have a clear
>> vision
>> of the remaining work?
>>
>> Steve, could you please prepare a paragraph about the entity graph work
>> for
>> the announcement? As it's the big new feature of this release, some code
>> showing the improvements made would be welcome, I think.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --
>> Guillaume
>> _______________________________________________
>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
>

From steve at hibernate.org  Tue Nov  6 10:53:00 2018
From: steve at hibernate.org (Steve Ebersole)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2018 09:53:00 -0600
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Wrapping up 5.4.0
In-Reply-To: <CAFdSV9t4kd6hiE5NwR1od+xxyzTYWCzkm4UB8vG6rx2n6mGYnw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALt0+o8X4njpZk3-pAD12h4mhF4GTUNhBR39xy1W_Z8Zawui0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9sgiq13ncqB33JSc1d1YBER4NKKJX_eccrCg+T=gYWdZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9t4kd6hiE5NwR1od+xxyzTYWCzkm4UB8vG6rx2n6mGYnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFdSV9t-2pSY05O05axcB3ms6vvccyr2ECt5q=ViETUfC=WMNw@mail.gmail.com>

We should also explicitly mention something about our
new org.hibernate.graph.Graph extensions, especially methods such as:

   - `Graph#makeRootGraph`
   - `Graph#makeSubGraph`
   - `Graph#makeCopy`

We should be sure to mention that all of this is considered incubating.

On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 9:48 AM Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:

> JPA's EntityGraph feature is cumbersome to define and use.  Hibernate 5.4
> adds 2 new features to help make working with EntityGraphs easier.
>
> *EntityGraph parsing*
>
> The first feature is the ability to create a graph from a String
> representation.  E.g., given a Person entity, we might want to make sure
> the Person's spouse is eagerly fetched:
> ````
>     final EntityGraph eg = org.hibernate.graph.EntityGraphs.parse(
> Person.class, "spouse", entityManager );
>     final Person personAndSpouse = entityManager.find( Person.class, 1,
> Collections.singletonMap( "javax.persistence.fetchgraph", eg );
> ````
>
> This parsing supports all of the features of EntityGraph creation
> including sub-graphs (though see second feature) and sub-class graphs.  See
> the documentation for in-depth discussion and examples.
>
> *EntityGraph manipulation*
>
> This is mainly about combining graphs.  E.g.
>
> ````
>     final EntityGraph eg1 = org.hibernate.graph.EntityGraphs.parse(
> Person.class, "spouse", entityManager );
>     final EntityGraph eg2 = org.hibernate.graph.EntityGraphs.parse(
> Person.class, "spouse(age, dob)", entityManager );
>     final EntityGraph combinedGraph
> = org.hibernate.graph.EntityGraphs#merge( entityManager, Person.class, eg1,
> eg2 )
>     final Person personAndSpouse = entityManager.find( Person.class, 1,
> Collections.singletonMap( "javax.persistence.fetchgraph", combinedGraph );
> ````
>
> This is a very trivial example meant just for illustration.  It can
> actually be much more easily defined as:
>
> ````
>     final EntityGraph combinedGraph =
> org.hibernate.graph.EntityGraphs.parse( Person.class, "spouse( age, dob )",
> entityManager );
>     final Person personAndSpouse = entityManager.find( Person.class, 1,
> Collections.singletonMap( "javax.persistence.fetchgraph", combinedGraph );
> ````
>
>
> P.S. Looking back at this, I wonder if we want to combine
> `org.hibernate.graph.GraphParser` into `org.hibernate.graph.EntityGraphs`.
> As-is, users wanting to use both of these features above would need to
> import both of those classes.  What do y'all think?
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 5:41 PM Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
>> With regard to entity graphs, the only new piece is the "parse a string
>> representation" feature.  I'll write up a release notes blurb with a simple
>> code sample, but the new documentation sections cover this feature very
>> in-depth.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 12:07 PM Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> If everybody is OK with it, I would like to wrap 5.4.0.CR1 on Wednesday
>>> 14th (this is next Wednesday).
>>>
>>> That means that everything we want in 5.4.0 should be in by then.
>>>
>>> The big remaining subject IMHO is this one:
>>> https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/pull/2611 . I think we really
>>> need that in.
>>>
>>> Chris, Gail, do you think you can drive this puppy home before then?
>>>
>>> If you have issues affected to you that you know won't be fixed before
>>> next
>>> Wednesday, can you please move them to 5.4.1 so that we have a clear
>>> vision
>>> of the remaining work?
>>>
>>> Steve, could you please prepare a paragraph about the entity graph work
>>> for
>>> the announcement? As it's the big new feature of this release, some code
>>> showing the improvements made would be welcome, I think.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> --
>>> Guillaume
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>>
>>

From guillaume.smet at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 09:57:35 2018
From: guillaume.smet at gmail.com (Guillaume Smet)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2018 15:57:35 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] [ORM] Releasing 5.2.18?
In-Reply-To: <CALt0+o8=WZcEv5gTyAKdiijMjnbPE0nAJcNMOXsCDABTpib5OQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALt0+o8=WZcEv5gTyAKdiijMjnbPE0nAJcNMOXsCDABTpib5OQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALt0+o8d==4Rb+NCW56UG7WkPzypM2KPdxWnPcaMzfiZOa8_Hg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

So FYI, I will release 5.2.18 next Wednesday with whatever is in the 5.2
branch at that time.

It's still better than not releasing anything and we can still release
another one if someone decides to fix HHH-12251
<https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-12251>.

-- 
Guillaume

On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 4:53 PM Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> So, I was thinking (again) about releasing a 5.2.18.
>
>
> https://hibernate.atlassian.net/projects/HHH/versions/31663/tab/release-report-todo
> says:
>
> - we have 4 issues about adding stuff to the migration notes. Gail, do you
> still think it's useful? Maybe for people going from 5.1 to 5.3? How much
> work would it be? E.g. if it's a 2 hours effort, it sounds like a good
> investment but if it's a 2 days effort, not so much.
>
> - This issue is bugging me a bit
> https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-12251 as it's a regression
> introduced in 5.2.13. Would somebody have time to take a look at it (once
> the 5.4.0 related tasks are done)? AFAIK, Vlad already put a test case
> together. If not, I suppose we would just move it to 5.4-backlog and
> consider it for 5.4. (Or release another 5.2.x later if the fix is
> backportable).
>
> - https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-12276 - This one was already
> present in 5.0 so it's low priority for me. I would vote for keeping it for
> later.
>
> Thanks for the feedback.
>
> --
> Guillaume
>

From crancran at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 08:50:17 2018
From: crancran at gmail.com (Chris Cranford)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 08:50:17 -0500
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Getting automatically removed from the list for
 "excessive bounces"?
In-Reply-To: <CAL2Kp+iSy+mXfWn4CH=j_HHUG7-okp=RyL086iH61=t3AR_M_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+nBocCv_KOVoLL4gvDBP_Jd+xMVgN3QUtm2RM0OicUHtRzR5Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO2=AnXDvswNNEhj74bAzsxZ21C-EnYtH4qgGcbpt9voNA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAL2Kp+iSy+mXfWn4CH=j_HHUG7-okp=RyL086iH61=t3AR_M_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d2fdc0f6-2dd4-c5d6-9e31-d5b444d281e3@gmail.com>

I'm also noticing as of today that parts of entire conversations are not
being delivered, but yet my account not suspended.? I'm seeing 5-6
messages sent since Friday, November 2nd never made it into gmail.? As
of now, the only option I have is to review the archives daily to see
what I may I have missed, which is quite frustrating.

Chris

On 10/24/18 9:26 AM, Alessio Stalla wrote:
> Hi,
> I've got the excessive bounces message several times, too, and I'm using
> Gmail.
>
> Alessio
>
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 15:24, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jordan,
>>
>> I have an error message from our mail server stating that messages to
>> you (and 8 more people, among them we also have regulars like Vlad and
>> Christian Beikov) have been bouncing back often in the past 2 days. It
>> eventually gave up so you might miss some emails from this list.
>>
>> I'm not sure why; but it's interesting to note that all 9 people on
>> this error message are using gmail. I'll open a support ticket for
>> those managing the mail server but I'm not sure if they will be able
>> to to anything, as it seems it's gmail refusing them.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sanne
>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 11:42, Jordan Gigov <coladict at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I've started getting these every month from this list:
>>>> Your membership in the mailing list hibernate-dev has been disabled
>>>> due to excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated
>>>> 24-Oct-2018.  You will not get any more messages from this list until
>>>> you re-enable your membership.  You will receive 3 more reminders like
>>>> this before your membership in the list is deleted.
>>> Otherwise messages from the list come in normally in my inbox and not
>>> marked as spam.
>>>
>>> Does this only affect me, all GMail subscribers, or an even wider
>> audience?
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev


From crancran at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 08:58:21 2018
From: crancran at gmail.com (Chris Cranford)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 08:58:21 -0500
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Wrapping up 5.4.0
In-Reply-To: <CAFdSV9sgiq13ncqB33JSc1d1YBER4NKKJX_eccrCg+T=gYWdZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALt0+o8X4njpZk3-pAD12h4mhF4GTUNhBR39xy1W_Z8Zawui0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9sgiq13ncqB33JSc1d1YBER4NKKJX_eccrCg+T=gYWdZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <29861df5-5a54-a832-6ce2-71d661ab8aa7@gmail.com>

Guillaume

On the topic of PR #2611, I pushed a commit to fix the test failure a
day or two ago
that you pointed out.? At this point, the PR is ready for integration
unless anyone
else wants to review and provide any further input/critique.?

What remains for 5.4 which Andrea and I are working on is to align a few
contracts
with their 6.0 counterparts.? There are somethings we recently changed
in 6.0
that we should prefer to backport for compatibility reasons moving
forward.? This
should be work we can finish before Wednesday.

Chris

> On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 12:07 PM Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> If everybody is OK with it, I would like to wrap 5.4.0.CR1 on Wednesday
>> 14th (this is next Wednesday).
>>
>> That means that everything we want in 5.4.0 should be in by then.
>>
>> The big remaining subject IMHO is this one:
>> https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/pull/2611 . I think we really
>> need that in.
>>
>> Chris, Gail, do you think you can drive this puppy home before then?
>>
>> If you have issues affected to you that you know won't be fixed before next
>> Wednesday, can you please move them to 5.4.1 so that we have a clear vision
>> of the remaining work?
>>
>> Steve, could you please prepare a paragraph about the entity graph work for
>> the announcement? As it's the big new feature of this release, some code
>> showing the improvements made would be welcome, I think.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --
>> Guillaume
>> _______________________________________________
>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev


From guillaume.smet at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 09:17:51 2018
From: guillaume.smet at gmail.com (Guillaume Smet)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 15:17:51 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Getting automatically removed from the list for
 "excessive bounces"?
In-Reply-To: <d2fdc0f6-2dd4-c5d6-9e31-d5b444d281e3@gmail.com>
References: <CA+nBocCv_KOVoLL4gvDBP_Jd+xMVgN3QUtm2RM0OicUHtRzR5Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO2=AnXDvswNNEhj74bAzsxZ21C-EnYtH4qgGcbpt9voNA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAL2Kp+iSy+mXfWn4CH=j_HHUG7-okp=RyL086iH61=t3AR_M_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<d2fdc0f6-2dd4-c5d6-9e31-d5b444d281e3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALt0+o8foMA6u=6PnpYcurzHXpaZdhHATFao7-PZS39ogrSoLQ@mail.gmail.com>

@Sanne any progress on the support case?

Thanks!

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 2:52 PM Chris Cranford <crancran at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm also noticing as of today that parts of entire conversations are not
> being delivered, but yet my account not suspended.  I'm seeing 5-6
> messages sent since Friday, November 2nd never made it into gmail.  As
> of now, the only option I have is to review the archives daily to see
> what I may I have missed, which is quite frustrating.
>
> Chris
>
> On 10/24/18 9:26 AM, Alessio Stalla wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I've got the excessive bounces message several times, too, and I'm using
> > Gmail.
> >
> > Alessio
> >
> > On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 15:24, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Jordan,
> >>
> >> I have an error message from our mail server stating that messages to
> >> you (and 8 more people, among them we also have regulars like Vlad and
> >> Christian Beikov) have been bouncing back often in the past 2 days. It
> >> eventually gave up so you might miss some emails from this list.
> >>
> >> I'm not sure why; but it's interesting to note that all 9 people on
> >> this error message are using gmail. I'll open a support ticket for
> >> those managing the mail server but I'm not sure if they will be able
> >> to to anything, as it seems it's gmail refusing them.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Sanne
> >> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 11:42, Jordan Gigov <coladict at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> I've started getting these every month from this list:
> >>>> Your membership in the mailing list hibernate-dev has been disabled
> >>>> due to excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated
> >>>> 24-Oct-2018.  You will not get any more messages from this list until
> >>>> you re-enable your membership.  You will receive 3 more reminders like
> >>>> this before your membership in the list is deleted.
> >>> Otherwise messages from the list come in normally in my inbox and not
> >>> marked as spam.
> >>>
> >>> Does this only affect me, all GMail subscribers, or an even wider
> >> audience?
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> hibernate-dev mailing list
> >>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> >>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

From guillaume.smet at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 09:21:35 2018
From: guillaume.smet at gmail.com (Guillaume Smet)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 15:21:35 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Releasing a new "major" HCANN version for ORM
	5.4
In-Reply-To: <CAFdSV9vXRQjF6fbws94FgCX4m_MoyVxQ0Ve1fOau4cf4QFqriA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALt0+o8XsDHJ1McxPdOoXORDytKN1Zvbuim415y4gAdEizeOxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9vXRQjF6fbws94FgCX4m_MoyVxQ0Ve1fOau4cf4QFqriA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALt0+o8nHht4HARrvGKN+uzbiFt3J=auRM9T3bo_kWRW=EEYjg@mail.gmail.com>

Released 5.1.0.Final containing the current master fixes.

I created a 5.1 branch.

Will upgrade ORM.

-- 
Guillaume

On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 6:04 PM Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:

> Personally I would not use 6 as the version following the "goal" of trying
> to align major versions across projects where feasible (and here I think it
> is feasible).
>
> But +1 to releasing 5.1.0
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 10:43 AM Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Sanne merged
>> https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-commons-annotations/pull/11 into
>> HCANN master a while ago, master that is currently labelled as 6.
>>
>> Wondering if we should release a HCANN 5.1.0 containing this fix (not sure
>> a 6 is needed for that but I don't really mind if some of you prefer 6) to
>> be consumed by ORM 5.4.0.
>>
>> That would allow to merge
>> https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/pull/2050 and remove the
>> java.util restriction on collections which seems like a good thing.
>>
>> What do you all think?
>>
>> --
>> Guillaume
>> _______________________________________________
>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
>

From sanne at hibernate.org  Thu Nov  8 13:17:07 2018
From: sanne at hibernate.org (Sanne Grinovero)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 18:17:07 +0000
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Getting automatically removed from the list for
 "excessive bounces"?
In-Reply-To: <CALt0+o8foMA6u=6PnpYcurzHXpaZdhHATFao7-PZS39ogrSoLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+nBocCv_KOVoLL4gvDBP_Jd+xMVgN3QUtm2RM0OicUHtRzR5Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO2=AnXDvswNNEhj74bAzsxZ21C-EnYtH4qgGcbpt9voNA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAL2Kp+iSy+mXfWn4CH=j_HHUG7-okp=RyL086iH61=t3AR_M_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<d2fdc0f6-2dd4-c5d6-9e31-d5b444d281e3@gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o8foMA6u=6PnpYcurzHXpaZdhHATFao7-PZS39ogrSoLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFm4XO0vxLqwn5wmgFBStpyv8V9w1mKLYq7BKaK6S_Z29UEM5A@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 at 14:18, Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> @Sanne any progress on the support case?

No, no useful news yet :(

My initial ticket has been bounced around fifferent teams.

>
> Thanks!
>
> On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 2:52 PM Chris Cranford <crancran at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm also noticing as of today that parts of entire conversations are not
>> being delivered, but yet my account not suspended.  I'm seeing 5-6
>> messages sent since Friday, November 2nd never made it into gmail.  As
>> of now, the only option I have is to review the archives daily to see
>> what I may I have missed, which is quite frustrating.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On 10/24/18 9:26 AM, Alessio Stalla wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> > I've got the excessive bounces message several times, too, and I'm using
>> > Gmail.
>> >
>> > Alessio
>> >
>> > On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 15:24, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi Jordan,
>> >>
>> >> I have an error message from our mail server stating that messages to
>> >> you (and 8 more people, among them we also have regulars like Vlad and
>> >> Christian Beikov) have been bouncing back often in the past 2 days. It
>> >> eventually gave up so you might miss some emails from this list.
>> >>
>> >> I'm not sure why; but it's interesting to note that all 9 people on
>> >> this error message are using gmail. I'll open a support ticket for
>> >> those managing the mail server but I'm not sure if they will be able
>> >> to to anything, as it seems it's gmail refusing them.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Sanne
>> >> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 11:42, Jordan Gigov <coladict at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> I've started getting these every month from this list:
>> >>>> Your membership in the mailing list hibernate-dev has been disabled
>> >>>> due to excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated
>> >>>> 24-Oct-2018.  You will not get any more messages from this list until
>> >>>> you re-enable your membership.  You will receive 3 more reminders like
>> >>>> this before your membership in the list is deleted.
>> >>> Otherwise messages from the list come in normally in my inbox and not
>> >>> marked as spam.
>> >>>
>> >>> Does this only affect me, all GMail subscribers, or an even wider
>> >> audience?
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> >>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> >>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> >> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

From rory.odonnell at oracle.com  Fri Nov  9 05:48:42 2018
From: rory.odonnell at oracle.com (Rory O'Donnell)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2018 10:48:42 +0000
Subject: [hibernate-dev] JDK 12 ,
	JDK 8u202 & Project Panama Early-Access builds available
Message-ID: <81c89aad-02cc-4382-2efa-363ed9069192@oracle.com>

Hi Sanne,

*JDK 12 Early Access build 19 is available at : - jdk.java.net/12/*

  * These early-access, open-source builds are provided under the GNU
    General Public License, version?2, with the Classpath Exception
    <http://openjdk.java.net/legal/gplv2+ce.html>.

  * Release Notes updates since last email
      o Build 18 ? JDK-8211883: Disable anon and NULL cipher suites
          + Crypto Roadmap
            <https://java.com/en/jre-jdk-cryptoroadmap.html> Updated
      o Build 17 ? JDK-8211806: TLS 1.3 handshake server name indication
        is missing on a session resume
      o Build 16 ? JDK-8211866: TLS 1.3 CertificateRequest message
        sometimes offers disallowed signature algorithms
      o Build 17 ? JDK-8195793 : Remove GTE CyberTrust Global Root
      o Build 16 - JDK-8191053 : Provide a mechanism to make system's
        security manager immutable

  * JEPs proposed for JDK 12 so far:
      o JEP 230 - Microbenchmark Suite <https://openjdk.java.net/jeps/230>
  * JEPs targeted to JDK 12, so far
      o 325: Switch Expressions (Preview) <http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/325>
      o 326: Raw String Literals (Preview)
        <http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/326>
      o 340: One AArch64 Port, Not Two <http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/340>
      o 341: Default CDS Archives <http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/341>

*JDK 8u202 Early Access build 03 is available at : - 
**http://jdk.java.net/8/*

  * JDK 8u202 timeline is available [1]
      o GA is scheduled for January 2019

*Project Panama Early-Access build 0 ***is available at : - 
http://jdk.java.net/panama/
**

  * Early access builds from Project Panama
    <https://openjdk.java.net/projects/panama/>
  * Early-access builds are provided under the GNU General Public
    License, version?2, with the Classpath Exception
    <http://openjdk.java.net/legal/gplv2+ce.html>.
  * Feedback - Please send feedback via e-mail to
    panama-dev at openjdk.java.net <mailto:panama-dev at openjdk.java.net>.
  * To send e-mail to this address you must first subscribe to the
    mailing list
    <http://mail.openjdk.java.net/mailman/listinfo/panama-dev>.

*Crypto Roadmap Updated [2]
*


Rgds,Rory

[1] http://openjdk.java.net/projects/jdk8u/releases/8u202.html
[2] https://java.com/en/jre-jdk-cryptoroadmap.html

-- 
Rgds,Rory O'Donnell
Quality Engineering Manager
Oracle EMEA , Dublin, Ireland


From yoann at hibernate.org  Fri Nov  9 09:46:29 2018
From: yoann at hibernate.org (Yoann Rodiere)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2018 15:46:29 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Chat migration - D minus 115 until the death of
	HipChat
In-Reply-To: <CAEqagpojJR4Xa0jGYjPcF1y7qaHjikbuYNAA2=-meGpJjPg99w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEqagpqit=rUeNA+ZagM0NYA2rPhxXspqRDRQuNq-UqmMnLppg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO31HS2KN5v2rGYjcDf23+2+NC_97oKn2_RLK-HPC5usGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9s4UFG4JyPp=k+0pMyY8K-Es4TyOr9-CEHzGH2U4bT33Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpo83hCQqcFV5vgxEPSJH8wDLNVwyPmjiBoqB2NmRDFzkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpojJR4Xa0jGYjPcF1y7qaHjikbuYNAA2=-meGpJjPg99w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqagpp=NU0HLDeNh3U4gfe3J4Bf56gswnimzeTo4f994goobQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

TL;DR: I created the Gitter rooms. Let's all go there for a few days, at
least to try it?

*Connecting*

Obviously you can just connect to https://gitter.im/ and use the browser.
You can sign in with your Github, Gitlab or Twitter account.

There are also desktop/mobile applications. https://gitter.im/apps
They only provide .deb packages, though, and I wasn't able to convert them
easily using alien (I didn't try very hard). There is a snap out there, but
it's an old version that isn't allow to use the Gitter APIs anymore.

If you prefer to use IRC, they apparently provide a bridge. I don't know
what it's worth, but you can always give it a try: see
https://irc.gitter.im/ .

*What's next?*

Let's try to use it for a few days, see if everyone is comfortable with it?
Let's see if there isn't any blocker for anyone, and if the news from other
projects (such as WildFly moving to Slack) don't make use change our minds.

Then if everyone is okay with it, we can finalize everything:

   - Invite external people to our rooms (I didn't invite anyone except our
   own team)
   - Advertise Gitter as our main chat platform:
   - On our websites
      - On IRC (we should at least mention it in the "message of the day")
      - On the hibernate-announce mailing list
      - In the REAME file of our projects through a badge: [![Gitter](
      https://badges.gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-room-id.svg)](
      https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-room-id
      ?utm_source=badge&utm_medium=badge&utm_campaign=pr-badge)
   - Close the HipChat rooms somehow.

*Available rooms*

For each of our main projects, I created one room bound to the GitHub
repository for users, and *one *-dev room for our own use*.
I also created rooms based on what I could see in HipChat (branding, ...).

You can find a list of all rooms here: https://gitter.im/hibernate/home

I already added people according to which room they were member of in
HipChat, but I may have missed some. Please check which room you are
subscribed to.

*Settings*

You can configure how often you want to be notified for each room: go to
the room, click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the top
right, then "Notifications".
In this same popup, you have the option of setting general defaults.

Also, a dark theme is available: click on your avatar on the top right,
then "Toggle Dark Theme".

That's pretty much it.

*Configuring your rooms*

I configured the main rooms to  receive Github notifications on the
"activity tab" to the right, as well as Jenkins notifications for the
"master" and "PR" job (when I found it). Feel free to add more integration
if you want to.

How to add a Jenkins integration:

   - If your room doesn't have a Jenkins integration yet (most have):
   - Go to the room on Gitter
      - Click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the top
      right, then "Integrations".
      - Select "Jenkins"
      - Select the events you want to be notified of
      - Copy the webhook URL near the bottom
      - Create new credentials on Jenkins:
      http://ci.hibernate.org/credentials/store/system/domain/_/newCredentials
         - In the "Kind" field, select "Secret text"
         - Leave the "Scope" to "Global"
         - In the "Secret" field, paste the webhook URL
         - In the "ID" field, put "gitter-webhook-url-<ID of your room>"
         - In the "description" field, put "Gitter webhook URL for the <ID
         of your room> room"
         - Click "OK"
         - For each Jenkins job:
      - On the job page in Jenkins, click "Configure"
      - Select the "Job Notifications" tab near the top
      - Click "Add endpoint"
      - Leave the format to "JSON" and the protocol to "HTTP"
      - Set "URL Source" to "Credentials Store"
      - In the "URL" box, select the entry corresponding to your room,
      which should normally appear as "Gitter webhook URL for the <ID of
      your room> room"
      - Click "Save"



Hibernate NoORM Team
yoann at hibernate.org


On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 at 11:40, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:

> I think all day-to-day users of our chat voted. Here are the results:
>
> IRC:     4 Yes, 5 "if need be", 6 no.
> Slack:   5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no
> Zulip:   5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no
> Gitter: 10 Yes, 1 "if need be", 4 no
>
> It seems Gitter won. That's the only option with more "Yes" than "No"...
> It's got the most "Yes" (even counting "if need be"), and perhaps more
> importantly it's got the least amount of "no".
>
> To those who voted no: if you have specific concerns about Gitter, could
> you please mention them here? Maybe we can find solutions to some of the
> problems.
>
> I'll look into moving the Hibernate Search chat to Gitter and will report
> back on this thread.
>
> Yoann Rodi?re
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yoann at hibernate.org
>
>
> On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 at 08:25, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
>> Not everyone voted, far from it; we're missing votes from Gail,
>> Guillaume, Fabio, Chris, Davide, Emmanuel, Koen. So no, no consensus yet.
>>
>> I sent an email to them off-list, perhaps they didn't see this thread.
>>
>> Provisional results are as follows:
>>
>> IRC: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no
>> Slack: 2 Yes, 2 "if need be", 4 no
>> Zulip: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no
>> Gitter: 6 Yes, 0 "if need be", 2 no
>>
>> So Gitter seems on the verge of winning, but apparently some people are
>> categorically against it, so I'd say we'll have to give them a chance to
>> explain why. I'll wait for everyone to answer, though, since they could
>> completely change the results.
>>
>> Yoann Rodi?re
>> Hibernate NoORM Team
>> yoann at hibernate.org
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 13:35, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Any consensus on this yet?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:21 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for starting this!
>>>>
>>>> The choice of IRC is a bit special on the list as we never intended it
>>>> to be killed: it has been historically important and we should
>>>> maintain some level of reachability on it.  So voting for the "IRC"
>>>> choice just means a preference to not use anything else on top of it,
>>>> while alternatively we'' be using X on top of IRC, albeit with a
>>>> preference to use X for team conversations.
>>>>
>>>> Also good to remind: please try to be on IRC as well occasionally as
>>>> many in the OSS community we integrate with will reach out there.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Sanne
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 at 09:46, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Hi,
>>>> >
>>>> > TL;DR: please vote here if you don't want to end up having to use a
>>>> chat
>>>> > tool you don't like: https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
>>>> >
>>>> > HipChat Cloud will stop working on February 15th, 2019 [1]. We need to
>>>> > choose an alternative before we have our back against the wall, so
>>>> I'll try
>>>> > to resurrect the conversation.
>>>> >
>>>> > As a reminder, Stride is no longer an option: Atlassian cancelled the
>>>> > project, and encourages users to migrate to Slack.
>>>> >
>>>> > The discussed options so far were:
>>>> >
>>>> >    - *Moving back to IRC*. Aye: ?; nay: ?
>>>> >    Pros: simple as hell.
>>>> >    Cons: basic as hell; we won't keep the chat history.
>>>> >    - *Migrating to Slack* [6], as suggested by Atlassian [2]. Aye:
>>>> >    Christian B; Nay: ?
>>>> >    Pros: we will keep the chat history (I think).
>>>> >    Cons: not open-source; desktop client consumes a lot of resources.
>>>> >    - *Migrating to Zulip* [3]. Aye: Emmanuel, Yoann. Nay: Guillaume
>>>> (kind
>>>> >    of).
>>>> >    Pros: Advanced conversation management thanks to the "topics"
>>>> feature.
>>>> >    Cons: Complex to use because of the "topics" feature; we won't
>>>> keep the
>>>> >    chat history (1).
>>>> >    - *Migrating to Gitter* [5] (we'll create different rooms,
>>>> probably).
>>>> >    Aye: ?, Nay: ?
>>>> >    Pros: Users seem to actually go there, so we could have our "live
>>>> >    support" rooms next to our "internal discussion" rooms.
>>>> >    Cons: not open-source; we won't keep the chat history (1).
>>>> >
>>>> > I created a poll based on the discussion we had on the thread
>>>> > "[hibernate-dev] Stride". I think everyone had the time to suggest
>>>> another
>>>> > option.
>>>> >
>>>> > Please vote here and now, or remain silent forever ;):
>>>> > https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
>>>> >
>>>> > I'd suggest the following rules: if there's a single clear winner (a
>>>> > platform that everyone would be happy with), we'll pick that one. If
>>>> there
>>>> > are multiple clear winners, whoever does the migration work will pick
>>>> > what's easier to set up (taking into account the various
>>>> integrations).
>>>> > Otherwise, back to discussing it on this thread...
>>>> >
>>>> > (1) There seems to be some work in progress on a migration tool from
>>>> > HipChat to Zulip, but it doesn't seem to be ready yet [4]
>>>> >
>>>> > [1]
>>>> >
>>>> https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/faq#faq-da2b66a1-53d3-4c4e-a405-467d961336f7
>>>> > [2] https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/migration
>>>> > [3] https://hibernate.zulipchat.com/
>>>> > [4] https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/10647
>>>> > [5] https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-orm
>>>> > [6] https://slackdemo.com/
>>>> >
>>>> > Yoann Rodi?re
>>>> > Hibernate NoORM Team
>>>> > yoann at hibernate.org
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > hibernate-dev mailing list
>>>> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>>>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>>
>>>

From guillaume.smet at gmail.com  Mon Nov 12 04:58:00 2018
From: guillaume.smet at gmail.com (Guillaume Smet)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 10:58:00 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Chat migration - D minus 115 until the death of
	HipChat
In-Reply-To: <CAEqagpp=NU0HLDeNh3U4gfe3J4Bf56gswnimzeTo4f994goobQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEqagpqit=rUeNA+ZagM0NYA2rPhxXspqRDRQuNq-UqmMnLppg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO31HS2KN5v2rGYjcDf23+2+NC_97oKn2_RLK-HPC5usGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9s4UFG4JyPp=k+0pMyY8K-Es4TyOr9-CEHzGH2U4bT33Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpo83hCQqcFV5vgxEPSJH8wDLNVwyPmjiBoqB2NmRDFzkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpojJR4Xa0jGYjPcF1y7qaHjikbuYNAA2=-meGpJjPg99w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpp=NU0HLDeNh3U4gfe3J4Bf56gswnimzeTo4f994goobQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALt0+o_8LaHD9aHyojeSr1nf_rebYEO=mhG0G9CRpEbNpdPohg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

So, one thing I find particularly annoying with Gitter now that we are
trying to use it for real interactions is the lack of notification sounds
in the webapp. When you're focused on your work, it's really easy to miss
the visual ones and having a sound really helped on HipChat.

There is an open issue here:
https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitter/webapp/issues/735 .

AFAICS in the commit log, there's one person working on Gitter and it's not
making tremendous progress.

(Yeah, I know, it's Open Source, I can contribute...)

-- 
Guillaume

On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 3:47 PM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> TL;DR: I created the Gitter rooms. Let's all go there for a few days, at
> least to try it?
>
> *Connecting*
>
> Obviously you can just connect to https://gitter.im/ and use the browser.
> You can sign in with your Github, Gitlab or Twitter account.
>
> There are also desktop/mobile applications. https://gitter.im/apps
> They only provide .deb packages, though, and I wasn't able to convert them
> easily using alien (I didn't try very hard). There is a snap out there, but
> it's an old version that isn't allow to use the Gitter APIs anymore.
>
> If you prefer to use IRC, they apparently provide a bridge. I don't know
> what it's worth, but you can always give it a try: see
> https://irc.gitter.im/ .
>
> *What's next?*
>
> Let's try to use it for a few days, see if everyone is comfortable with it?
> Let's see if there isn't any blocker for anyone, and if the news from other
> projects (such as WildFly moving to Slack) don't make use change our minds.
>
> Then if everyone is okay with it, we can finalize everything:
>
>    - Invite external people to our rooms (I didn't invite anyone except our
>    own team)
>    - Advertise Gitter as our main chat platform:
>    - On our websites
>       - On IRC (we should at least mention it in the "message of the day")
>       - On the hibernate-announce mailing list
>       - In the REAME file of our projects through a badge: [![Gitter](
>       https://badges.gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-room-id.svg)](
>       https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-room-id
>       ?utm_source=badge&utm_medium=badge&utm_campaign=pr-badge)
>    - Close the HipChat rooms somehow.
>
> *Available rooms*
>
> For each of our main projects, I created one room bound to the GitHub
> repository for users, and *one *-dev room for our own use*.
> I also created rooms based on what I could see in HipChat (branding, ...).
>
> You can find a list of all rooms here: https://gitter.im/hibernate/home
>
> I already added people according to which room they were member of in
> HipChat, but I may have missed some. Please check which room you are
> subscribed to.
>
> *Settings*
>
> You can configure how often you want to be notified for each room: go to
> the room, click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the top
> right, then "Notifications".
> In this same popup, you have the option of setting general defaults.
>
> Also, a dark theme is available: click on your avatar on the top right,
> then "Toggle Dark Theme".
>
> That's pretty much it.
>
> *Configuring your rooms*
>
> I configured the main rooms to  receive Github notifications on the
> "activity tab" to the right, as well as Jenkins notifications for the
> "master" and "PR" job (when I found it). Feel free to add more integration
> if you want to.
>
> How to add a Jenkins integration:
>
>    - If your room doesn't have a Jenkins integration yet (most have):
>    - Go to the room on Gitter
>       - Click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the top
>       right, then "Integrations".
>       - Select "Jenkins"
>       - Select the events you want to be notified of
>       - Copy the webhook URL near the bottom
>       - Create new credentials on Jenkins:
>
> http://ci.hibernate.org/credentials/store/system/domain/_/newCredentials
>          - In the "Kind" field, select "Secret text"
>          - Leave the "Scope" to "Global"
>          - In the "Secret" field, paste the webhook URL
>          - In the "ID" field, put "gitter-webhook-url-<ID of your room>"
>          - In the "description" field, put "Gitter webhook URL for the <ID
>          of your room> room"
>          - Click "OK"
>          - For each Jenkins job:
>       - On the job page in Jenkins, click "Configure"
>       - Select the "Job Notifications" tab near the top
>       - Click "Add endpoint"
>       - Leave the format to "JSON" and the protocol to "HTTP"
>       - Set "URL Source" to "Credentials Store"
>       - In the "URL" box, select the entry corresponding to your room,
>       which should normally appear as "Gitter webhook URL for the <ID of
>       your room> room"
>       - Click "Save"
>
>
>
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yoann at hibernate.org
>
>
> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 at 11:40, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
> > I think all day-to-day users of our chat voted. Here are the results:
> >
> > IRC:     4 Yes, 5 "if need be", 6 no.
> > Slack:   5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no
> > Zulip:   5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no
> > Gitter: 10 Yes, 1 "if need be", 4 no
> >
> > It seems Gitter won. That's the only option with more "Yes" than "No"...
> > It's got the most "Yes" (even counting "if need be"), and perhaps more
> > importantly it's got the least amount of "no".
> >
> > To those who voted no: if you have specific concerns about Gitter, could
> > you please mention them here? Maybe we can find solutions to some of the
> > problems.
> >
> > I'll look into moving the Hibernate Search chat to Gitter and will report
> > back on this thread.
> >
> > Yoann Rodi?re
> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > yoann at hibernate.org
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 at 08:25, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Not everyone voted, far from it; we're missing votes from Gail,
> >> Guillaume, Fabio, Chris, Davide, Emmanuel, Koen. So no, no consensus
> yet.
> >>
> >> I sent an email to them off-list, perhaps they didn't see this thread.
> >>
> >> Provisional results are as follows:
> >>
> >> IRC: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no
> >> Slack: 2 Yes, 2 "if need be", 4 no
> >> Zulip: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no
> >> Gitter: 6 Yes, 0 "if need be", 2 no
> >>
> >> So Gitter seems on the verge of winning, but apparently some people are
> >> categorically against it, so I'd say we'll have to give them a chance to
> >> explain why. I'll wait for everyone to answer, though, since they could
> >> completely change the results.
> >>
> >> Yoann Rodi?re
> >> Hibernate NoORM Team
> >> yoann at hibernate.org
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 13:35, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Any consensus on this yet?
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:21 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Thanks for starting this!
> >>>>
> >>>> The choice of IRC is a bit special on the list as we never intended it
> >>>> to be killed: it has been historically important and we should
> >>>> maintain some level of reachability on it.  So voting for the "IRC"
> >>>> choice just means a preference to not use anything else on top of it,
> >>>> while alternatively we'' be using X on top of IRC, albeit with a
> >>>> preference to use X for team conversations.
> >>>>
> >>>> Also good to remind: please try to be on IRC as well occasionally as
> >>>> many in the OSS community we integrate with will reach out there.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Sanne
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 at 09:46, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Hi,
> >>>> >
> >>>> > TL;DR: please vote here if you don't want to end up having to use a
> >>>> chat
> >>>> > tool you don't like: https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
> >>>> >
> >>>> > HipChat Cloud will stop working on February 15th, 2019 [1]. We need
> to
> >>>> > choose an alternative before we have our back against the wall, so
> >>>> I'll try
> >>>> > to resurrect the conversation.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > As a reminder, Stride is no longer an option: Atlassian cancelled
> the
> >>>> > project, and encourages users to migrate to Slack.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > The discussed options so far were:
> >>>> >
> >>>> >    - *Moving back to IRC*. Aye: ?; nay: ?
> >>>> >    Pros: simple as hell.
> >>>> >    Cons: basic as hell; we won't keep the chat history.
> >>>> >    - *Migrating to Slack* [6], as suggested by Atlassian [2]. Aye:
> >>>> >    Christian B; Nay: ?
> >>>> >    Pros: we will keep the chat history (I think).
> >>>> >    Cons: not open-source; desktop client consumes a lot of
> resources.
> >>>> >    - *Migrating to Zulip* [3]. Aye: Emmanuel, Yoann. Nay: Guillaume
> >>>> (kind
> >>>> >    of).
> >>>> >    Pros: Advanced conversation management thanks to the "topics"
> >>>> feature.
> >>>> >    Cons: Complex to use because of the "topics" feature; we won't
> >>>> keep the
> >>>> >    chat history (1).
> >>>> >    - *Migrating to Gitter* [5] (we'll create different rooms,
> >>>> probably).
> >>>> >    Aye: ?, Nay: ?
> >>>> >    Pros: Users seem to actually go there, so we could have our "live
> >>>> >    support" rooms next to our "internal discussion" rooms.
> >>>> >    Cons: not open-source; we won't keep the chat history (1).
> >>>> >
> >>>> > I created a poll based on the discussion we had on the thread
> >>>> > "[hibernate-dev] Stride". I think everyone had the time to suggest
> >>>> another
> >>>> > option.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Please vote here and now, or remain silent forever ;):
> >>>> > https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
> >>>> >
> >>>> > I'd suggest the following rules: if there's a single clear winner (a
> >>>> > platform that everyone would be happy with), we'll pick that one. If
> >>>> there
> >>>> > are multiple clear winners, whoever does the migration work will
> pick
> >>>> > what's easier to set up (taking into account the various
> >>>> integrations).
> >>>> > Otherwise, back to discussing it on this thread...
> >>>> >
> >>>> > (1) There seems to be some work in progress on a migration tool from
> >>>> > HipChat to Zulip, but it doesn't seem to be ready yet [4]
> >>>> >
> >>>> > [1]
> >>>> >
> >>>>
> https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/faq#faq-da2b66a1-53d3-4c4e-a405-467d961336f7
> >>>> > [2] https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/migration
> >>>> > [3] https://hibernate.zulipchat.com/
> >>>> > [4] https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/10647
> >>>> > [5] https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-orm
> >>>> > [6] https://slackdemo.com/
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Yoann Rodi?re
> >>>> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> >>>> > yoann at hibernate.org
> >>>> > _______________________________________________
> >>>> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> >>>> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> >>>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> hibernate-dev mailing list
> >>>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> >>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >>>
> >>>
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

From gunnar at hibernate.org  Mon Nov 12 05:21:00 2018
From: gunnar at hibernate.org (Gunnar Morling)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 11:21:00 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Chat migration - D minus 115 until the death of
	HipChat
In-Reply-To: <CALt0+o_8LaHD9aHyojeSr1nf_rebYEO=mhG0G9CRpEbNpdPohg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEqagpqit=rUeNA+ZagM0NYA2rPhxXspqRDRQuNq-UqmMnLppg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO31HS2KN5v2rGYjcDf23+2+NC_97oKn2_RLK-HPC5usGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9s4UFG4JyPp=k+0pMyY8K-Es4TyOr9-CEHzGH2U4bT33Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpo83hCQqcFV5vgxEPSJH8wDLNVwyPmjiBoqB2NmRDFzkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpojJR4Xa0jGYjPcF1y7qaHjikbuYNAA2=-meGpJjPg99w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpp=NU0HLDeNh3U4gfe3J4Bf56gswnimzeTo4f994goobQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o_8LaHD9aHyojeSr1nf_rebYEO=mhG0G9CRpEbNpdPohg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADGJaX95SgNDLXyX3WPjz21b--+bSGb7tFHgyHmjANWuGe5Mtg@mail.gmail.com>

Have you tried "Room Settings" -> "Notifications"? We're on Gitter for
Debezium, too, and in fact the notifications were too noisy for me, so
I turned them off :)

--Gunnar

Am Mo., 12. Nov. 2018 um 10:59 Uhr schrieb Guillaume Smet
<guillaume.smet at gmail.com>:
>
> Hi,
>
> So, one thing I find particularly annoying with Gitter now that we are
> trying to use it for real interactions is the lack of notification sounds
> in the webapp. When you're focused on your work, it's really easy to miss
> the visual ones and having a sound really helped on HipChat.
>
> There is an open issue here:
> https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitter/webapp/issues/735 .
>
> AFAICS in the commit log, there's one person working on Gitter and it's not
> making tremendous progress.
>
> (Yeah, I know, it's Open Source, I can contribute...)
>
> --
> Guillaume
>
> On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 3:47 PM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > TL;DR: I created the Gitter rooms. Let's all go there for a few days, at
> > least to try it?
> >
> > *Connecting*
> >
> > Obviously you can just connect to https://gitter.im/ and use the browser.
> > You can sign in with your Github, Gitlab or Twitter account.
> >
> > There are also desktop/mobile applications. https://gitter.im/apps
> > They only provide .deb packages, though, and I wasn't able to convert them
> > easily using alien (I didn't try very hard). There is a snap out there, but
> > it's an old version that isn't allow to use the Gitter APIs anymore.
> >
> > If you prefer to use IRC, they apparently provide a bridge. I don't know
> > what it's worth, but you can always give it a try: see
> > https://irc.gitter.im/ .
> >
> > *What's next?*
> >
> > Let's try to use it for a few days, see if everyone is comfortable with it?
> > Let's see if there isn't any blocker for anyone, and if the news from other
> > projects (such as WildFly moving to Slack) don't make use change our minds.
> >
> > Then if everyone is okay with it, we can finalize everything:
> >
> >    - Invite external people to our rooms (I didn't invite anyone except our
> >    own team)
> >    - Advertise Gitter as our main chat platform:
> >    - On our websites
> >       - On IRC (we should at least mention it in the "message of the day")
> >       - On the hibernate-announce mailing list
> >       - In the REAME file of our projects through a badge: [![Gitter](
> >       https://badges.gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-room-id.svg)](
> >       https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-room-id
> >       ?utm_source=badge&utm_medium=badge&utm_campaign=pr-badge)
> >    - Close the HipChat rooms somehow.
> >
> > *Available rooms*
> >
> > For each of our main projects, I created one room bound to the GitHub
> > repository for users, and *one *-dev room for our own use*.
> > I also created rooms based on what I could see in HipChat (branding, ...).
> >
> > You can find a list of all rooms here: https://gitter.im/hibernate/home
> >
> > I already added people according to which room they were member of in
> > HipChat, but I may have missed some. Please check which room you are
> > subscribed to.
> >
> > *Settings*
> >
> > You can configure how often you want to be notified for each room: go to
> > the room, click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the top
> > right, then "Notifications".
> > In this same popup, you have the option of setting general defaults.
> >
> > Also, a dark theme is available: click on your avatar on the top right,
> > then "Toggle Dark Theme".
> >
> > That's pretty much it.
> >
> > *Configuring your rooms*
> >
> > I configured the main rooms to  receive Github notifications on the
> > "activity tab" to the right, as well as Jenkins notifications for the
> > "master" and "PR" job (when I found it). Feel free to add more integration
> > if you want to.
> >
> > How to add a Jenkins integration:
> >
> >    - If your room doesn't have a Jenkins integration yet (most have):
> >    - Go to the room on Gitter
> >       - Click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the top
> >       right, then "Integrations".
> >       - Select "Jenkins"
> >       - Select the events you want to be notified of
> >       - Copy the webhook URL near the bottom
> >       - Create new credentials on Jenkins:
> >
> > http://ci.hibernate.org/credentials/store/system/domain/_/newCredentials
> >          - In the "Kind" field, select "Secret text"
> >          - Leave the "Scope" to "Global"
> >          - In the "Secret" field, paste the webhook URL
> >          - In the "ID" field, put "gitter-webhook-url-<ID of your room>"
> >          - In the "description" field, put "Gitter webhook URL for the <ID
> >          of your room> room"
> >          - Click "OK"
> >          - For each Jenkins job:
> >       - On the job page in Jenkins, click "Configure"
> >       - Select the "Job Notifications" tab near the top
> >       - Click "Add endpoint"
> >       - Leave the format to "JSON" and the protocol to "HTTP"
> >       - Set "URL Source" to "Credentials Store"
> >       - In the "URL" box, select the entry corresponding to your room,
> >       which should normally appear as "Gitter webhook URL for the <ID of
> >       your room> room"
> >       - Click "Save"
> >
> >
> >
> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > yoann at hibernate.org
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 at 11:40, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
> >
> > > I think all day-to-day users of our chat voted. Here are the results:
> > >
> > > IRC:     4 Yes, 5 "if need be", 6 no.
> > > Slack:   5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no
> > > Zulip:   5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no
> > > Gitter: 10 Yes, 1 "if need be", 4 no
> > >
> > > It seems Gitter won. That's the only option with more "Yes" than "No"...
> > > It's got the most "Yes" (even counting "if need be"), and perhaps more
> > > importantly it's got the least amount of "no".
> > >
> > > To those who voted no: if you have specific concerns about Gitter, could
> > > you please mention them here? Maybe we can find solutions to some of the
> > > problems.
> > >
> > > I'll look into moving the Hibernate Search chat to Gitter and will report
> > > back on this thread.
> > >
> > > Yoann Rodi?re
> > > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > > yoann at hibernate.org
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 at 08:25, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Not everyone voted, far from it; we're missing votes from Gail,
> > >> Guillaume, Fabio, Chris, Davide, Emmanuel, Koen. So no, no consensus
> > yet.
> > >>
> > >> I sent an email to them off-list, perhaps they didn't see this thread.
> > >>
> > >> Provisional results are as follows:
> > >>
> > >> IRC: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no
> > >> Slack: 2 Yes, 2 "if need be", 4 no
> > >> Zulip: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no
> > >> Gitter: 6 Yes, 0 "if need be", 2 no
> > >>
> > >> So Gitter seems on the verge of winning, but apparently some people are
> > >> categorically against it, so I'd say we'll have to give them a chance to
> > >> explain why. I'll wait for everyone to answer, though, since they could
> > >> completely change the results.
> > >>
> > >> Yoann Rodi?re
> > >> Hibernate NoORM Team
> > >> yoann at hibernate.org
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 13:35, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Any consensus on this yet?
> > >>>
> > >>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:21 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Thanks for starting this!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The choice of IRC is a bit special on the list as we never intended it
> > >>>> to be killed: it has been historically important and we should
> > >>>> maintain some level of reachability on it.  So voting for the "IRC"
> > >>>> choice just means a preference to not use anything else on top of it,
> > >>>> while alternatively we'' be using X on top of IRC, albeit with a
> > >>>> preference to use X for team conversations.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Also good to remind: please try to be on IRC as well occasionally as
> > >>>> many in the OSS community we integrate with will reach out there.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks,
> > >>>> Sanne
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 at 09:46, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > Hi,
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > TL;DR: please vote here if you don't want to end up having to use a
> > >>>> chat
> > >>>> > tool you don't like: https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > HipChat Cloud will stop working on February 15th, 2019 [1]. We need
> > to
> > >>>> > choose an alternative before we have our back against the wall, so
> > >>>> I'll try
> > >>>> > to resurrect the conversation.
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > As a reminder, Stride is no longer an option: Atlassian cancelled
> > the
> > >>>> > project, and encourages users to migrate to Slack.
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > The discussed options so far were:
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >    - *Moving back to IRC*. Aye: ?; nay: ?
> > >>>> >    Pros: simple as hell.
> > >>>> >    Cons: basic as hell; we won't keep the chat history.
> > >>>> >    - *Migrating to Slack* [6], as suggested by Atlassian [2]. Aye:
> > >>>> >    Christian B; Nay: ?
> > >>>> >    Pros: we will keep the chat history (I think).
> > >>>> >    Cons: not open-source; desktop client consumes a lot of
> > resources.
> > >>>> >    - *Migrating to Zulip* [3]. Aye: Emmanuel, Yoann. Nay: Guillaume
> > >>>> (kind
> > >>>> >    of).
> > >>>> >    Pros: Advanced conversation management thanks to the "topics"
> > >>>> feature.
> > >>>> >    Cons: Complex to use because of the "topics" feature; we won't
> > >>>> keep the
> > >>>> >    chat history (1).
> > >>>> >    - *Migrating to Gitter* [5] (we'll create different rooms,
> > >>>> probably).
> > >>>> >    Aye: ?, Nay: ?
> > >>>> >    Pros: Users seem to actually go there, so we could have our "live
> > >>>> >    support" rooms next to our "internal discussion" rooms.
> > >>>> >    Cons: not open-source; we won't keep the chat history (1).
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > I created a poll based on the discussion we had on the thread
> > >>>> > "[hibernate-dev] Stride". I think everyone had the time to suggest
> > >>>> another
> > >>>> > option.
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > Please vote here and now, or remain silent forever ;):
> > >>>> > https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > I'd suggest the following rules: if there's a single clear winner (a
> > >>>> > platform that everyone would be happy with), we'll pick that one. If
> > >>>> there
> > >>>> > are multiple clear winners, whoever does the migration work will
> > pick
> > >>>> > what's easier to set up (taking into account the various
> > >>>> integrations).
> > >>>> > Otherwise, back to discussing it on this thread...
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > (1) There seems to be some work in progress on a migration tool from
> > >>>> > HipChat to Zulip, but it doesn't seem to be ready yet [4]
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > [1]
> > >>>> >
> > >>>>
> > https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/faq#faq-da2b66a1-53d3-4c4e-a405-467d961336f7
> > >>>> > [2] https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/migration
> > >>>> > [3] https://hibernate.zulipchat.com/
> > >>>> > [4] https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/10647
> > >>>> > [5] https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-orm
> > >>>> > [6] https://slackdemo.com/
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > Yoann Rodi?re
> > >>>> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > >>>> > yoann at hibernate.org
> > >>>> > _______________________________________________
> > >>>> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > >>>> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > >>>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> hibernate-dev mailing list
> > >>>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > >>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > _______________________________________________
> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev


From guillaume.smet at gmail.com  Mon Nov 12 05:27:52 2018
From: guillaume.smet at gmail.com (Guillaume Smet)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 11:27:52 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Chat migration - D minus 115 until the death of
	HipChat
In-Reply-To: <CADGJaX95SgNDLXyX3WPjz21b--+bSGb7tFHgyHmjANWuGe5Mtg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEqagpqit=rUeNA+ZagM0NYA2rPhxXspqRDRQuNq-UqmMnLppg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO31HS2KN5v2rGYjcDf23+2+NC_97oKn2_RLK-HPC5usGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9s4UFG4JyPp=k+0pMyY8K-Es4TyOr9-CEHzGH2U4bT33Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpo83hCQqcFV5vgxEPSJH8wDLNVwyPmjiBoqB2NmRDFzkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpojJR4Xa0jGYjPcF1y7qaHjikbuYNAA2=-meGpJjPg99w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpp=NU0HLDeNh3U4gfe3J4Bf56gswnimzeTo4f994goobQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o_8LaHD9aHyojeSr1nf_rebYEO=mhG0G9CRpEbNpdPohg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADGJaX95SgNDLXyX3WPjz21b--+bSGb7tFHgyHmjANWuGe5Mtg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALt0+o_5zkyQTWWNv6U8EkVe4LxdTDAxDSOrt_v_93AQ+RdpHA@mail.gmail.com>

Are you using the webapp?

Because I don't see any preference to enable sound and there is no sound at
all when I get a notification.

On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:21 AM Gunnar Morling <gunnar at hibernate.org>
wrote:

> Have you tried "Room Settings" -> "Notifications"? We're on Gitter for
> Debezium, too, and in fact the notifications were too noisy for me, so
> I turned them off :)
>
> --Gunnar
>
> Am Mo., 12. Nov. 2018 um 10:59 Uhr schrieb Guillaume Smet
> <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > So, one thing I find particularly annoying with Gitter now that we are
> > trying to use it for real interactions is the lack of notification sounds
> > in the webapp. When you're focused on your work, it's really easy to miss
> > the visual ones and having a sound really helped on HipChat.
> >
> > There is an open issue here:
> > https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitter/webapp/issues/735 .
> >
> > AFAICS in the commit log, there's one person working on Gitter and it's
> not
> > making tremendous progress.
> >
> > (Yeah, I know, it's Open Source, I can contribute...)
> >
> > --
> > Guillaume
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 3:47 PM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > TL;DR: I created the Gitter rooms. Let's all go there for a few days,
> at
> > > least to try it?
> > >
> > > *Connecting*
> > >
> > > Obviously you can just connect to https://gitter.im/ and use the
> browser.
> > > You can sign in with your Github, Gitlab or Twitter account.
> > >
> > > There are also desktop/mobile applications. https://gitter.im/apps
> > > They only provide .deb packages, though, and I wasn't able to convert
> them
> > > easily using alien (I didn't try very hard). There is a snap out
> there, but
> > > it's an old version that isn't allow to use the Gitter APIs anymore.
> > >
> > > If you prefer to use IRC, they apparently provide a bridge. I don't
> know
> > > what it's worth, but you can always give it a try: see
> > > https://irc.gitter.im/ .
> > >
> > > *What's next?*
> > >
> > > Let's try to use it for a few days, see if everyone is comfortable
> with it?
> > > Let's see if there isn't any blocker for anyone, and if the news from
> other
> > > projects (such as WildFly moving to Slack) don't make use change our
> minds.
> > >
> > > Then if everyone is okay with it, we can finalize everything:
> > >
> > >    - Invite external people to our rooms (I didn't invite anyone
> except our
> > >    own team)
> > >    - Advertise Gitter as our main chat platform:
> > >    - On our websites
> > >       - On IRC (we should at least mention it in the "message of the
> day")
> > >       - On the hibernate-announce mailing list
> > >       - In the REAME file of our projects through a badge: [![Gitter](
> > >       https://badges.gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-room-id.svg)](
> > >       https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-room-id
> > >       ?utm_source=badge&utm_medium=badge&utm_campaign=pr-badge)
> > >    - Close the HipChat rooms somehow.
> > >
> > > *Available rooms*
> > >
> > > For each of our main projects, I created one room bound to the GitHub
> > > repository for users, and *one *-dev room for our own use*.
> > > I also created rooms based on what I could see in HipChat (branding,
> ...).
> > >
> > > You can find a list of all rooms here:
> https://gitter.im/hibernate/home
> > >
> > > I already added people according to which room they were member of in
> > > HipChat, but I may have missed some. Please check which room you are
> > > subscribed to.
> > >
> > > *Settings*
> > >
> > > You can configure how often you want to be notified for each room: go
> to
> > > the room, click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the top
> > > right, then "Notifications".
> > > In this same popup, you have the option of setting general defaults.
> > >
> > > Also, a dark theme is available: click on your avatar on the top right,
> > > then "Toggle Dark Theme".
> > >
> > > That's pretty much it.
> > >
> > > *Configuring your rooms*
> > >
> > > I configured the main rooms to  receive Github notifications on the
> > > "activity tab" to the right, as well as Jenkins notifications for the
> > > "master" and "PR" job (when I found it). Feel free to add more
> integration
> > > if you want to.
> > >
> > > How to add a Jenkins integration:
> > >
> > >    - If your room doesn't have a Jenkins integration yet (most have):
> > >    - Go to the room on Gitter
> > >       - Click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the top
> > >       right, then "Integrations".
> > >       - Select "Jenkins"
> > >       - Select the events you want to be notified of
> > >       - Copy the webhook URL near the bottom
> > >       - Create new credentials on Jenkins:
> > >
> > >
> http://ci.hibernate.org/credentials/store/system/domain/_/newCredentials
> > >          - In the "Kind" field, select "Secret text"
> > >          - Leave the "Scope" to "Global"
> > >          - In the "Secret" field, paste the webhook URL
> > >          - In the "ID" field, put "gitter-webhook-url-<ID of your
> room>"
> > >          - In the "description" field, put "Gitter webhook URL for the
> <ID
> > >          of your room> room"
> > >          - Click "OK"
> > >          - For each Jenkins job:
> > >       - On the job page in Jenkins, click "Configure"
> > >       - Select the "Job Notifications" tab near the top
> > >       - Click "Add endpoint"
> > >       - Leave the format to "JSON" and the protocol to "HTTP"
> > >       - Set "URL Source" to "Credentials Store"
> > >       - In the "URL" box, select the entry corresponding to your room,
> > >       which should normally appear as "Gitter webhook URL for the <ID
> of
> > >       your room> room"
> > >       - Click "Save"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > > yoann at hibernate.org
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 at 11:40, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I think all day-to-day users of our chat voted. Here are the results:
> > > >
> > > > IRC:     4 Yes, 5 "if need be", 6 no.
> > > > Slack:   5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no
> > > > Zulip:   5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no
> > > > Gitter: 10 Yes, 1 "if need be", 4 no
> > > >
> > > > It seems Gitter won. That's the only option with more "Yes" than
> "No"...
> > > > It's got the most "Yes" (even counting "if need be"), and perhaps
> more
> > > > importantly it's got the least amount of "no".
> > > >
> > > > To those who voted no: if you have specific concerns about Gitter,
> could
> > > > you please mention them here? Maybe we can find solutions to some of
> the
> > > > problems.
> > > >
> > > > I'll look into moving the Hibernate Search chat to Gitter and will
> report
> > > > back on this thread.
> > > >
> > > > Yoann Rodi?re
> > > > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > > > yoann at hibernate.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 at 08:25, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Not everyone voted, far from it; we're missing votes from Gail,
> > > >> Guillaume, Fabio, Chris, Davide, Emmanuel, Koen. So no, no consensus
> > > yet.
> > > >>
> > > >> I sent an email to them off-list, perhaps they didn't see this
> thread.
> > > >>
> > > >> Provisional results are as follows:
> > > >>
> > > >> IRC: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no
> > > >> Slack: 2 Yes, 2 "if need be", 4 no
> > > >> Zulip: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no
> > > >> Gitter: 6 Yes, 0 "if need be", 2 no
> > > >>
> > > >> So Gitter seems on the verge of winning, but apparently some people
> are
> > > >> categorically against it, so I'd say we'll have to give them a
> chance to
> > > >> explain why. I'll wait for everyone to answer, though, since they
> could
> > > >> completely change the results.
> > > >>
> > > >> Yoann Rodi?re
> > > >> Hibernate NoORM Team
> > > >> yoann at hibernate.org
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 13:35, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Any consensus on this yet?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:21 AM Sanne Grinovero <
> sanne at hibernate.org>
> > > >>> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> Thanks for starting this!
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> The choice of IRC is a bit special on the list as we never
> intended it
> > > >>>> to be killed: it has been historically important and we should
> > > >>>> maintain some level of reachability on it.  So voting for the
> "IRC"
> > > >>>> choice just means a preference to not use anything else on top of
> it,
> > > >>>> while alternatively we'' be using X on top of IRC, albeit with a
> > > >>>> preference to use X for team conversations.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Also good to remind: please try to be on IRC as well occasionally
> as
> > > >>>> many in the OSS community we integrate with will reach out there.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Thanks,
> > > >>>> Sanne
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 at 09:46, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
> > > >>>> wrote:
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > Hi,
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > TL;DR: please vote here if you don't want to end up having to
> use a
> > > >>>> chat
> > > >>>> > tool you don't like: https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > HipChat Cloud will stop working on February 15th, 2019 [1]. We
> need
> > > to
> > > >>>> > choose an alternative before we have our back against the wall,
> so
> > > >>>> I'll try
> > > >>>> > to resurrect the conversation.
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > As a reminder, Stride is no longer an option: Atlassian
> cancelled
> > > the
> > > >>>> > project, and encourages users to migrate to Slack.
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > The discussed options so far were:
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> >    - *Moving back to IRC*. Aye: ?; nay: ?
> > > >>>> >    Pros: simple as hell.
> > > >>>> >    Cons: basic as hell; we won't keep the chat history.
> > > >>>> >    - *Migrating to Slack* [6], as suggested by Atlassian [2].
> Aye:
> > > >>>> >    Christian B; Nay: ?
> > > >>>> >    Pros: we will keep the chat history (I think).
> > > >>>> >    Cons: not open-source; desktop client consumes a lot of
> > > resources.
> > > >>>> >    - *Migrating to Zulip* [3]. Aye: Emmanuel, Yoann. Nay:
> Guillaume
> > > >>>> (kind
> > > >>>> >    of).
> > > >>>> >    Pros: Advanced conversation management thanks to the "topics"
> > > >>>> feature.
> > > >>>> >    Cons: Complex to use because of the "topics" feature; we
> won't
> > > >>>> keep the
> > > >>>> >    chat history (1).
> > > >>>> >    - *Migrating to Gitter* [5] (we'll create different rooms,
> > > >>>> probably).
> > > >>>> >    Aye: ?, Nay: ?
> > > >>>> >    Pros: Users seem to actually go there, so we could have our
> "live
> > > >>>> >    support" rooms next to our "internal discussion" rooms.
> > > >>>> >    Cons: not open-source; we won't keep the chat history (1).
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > I created a poll based on the discussion we had on the thread
> > > >>>> > "[hibernate-dev] Stride". I think everyone had the time to
> suggest
> > > >>>> another
> > > >>>> > option.
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > Please vote here and now, or remain silent forever ;):
> > > >>>> > https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > I'd suggest the following rules: if there's a single clear
> winner (a
> > > >>>> > platform that everyone would be happy with), we'll pick that
> one. If
> > > >>>> there
> > > >>>> > are multiple clear winners, whoever does the migration work will
> > > pick
> > > >>>> > what's easier to set up (taking into account the various
> > > >>>> integrations).
> > > >>>> > Otherwise, back to discussing it on this thread...
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > (1) There seems to be some work in progress on a migration tool
> from
> > > >>>> > HipChat to Zulip, but it doesn't seem to be ready yet [4]
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > [1]
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/faq#faq-da2b66a1-53d3-4c4e-a405-467d961336f7
> > > >>>> > [2] https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/migration
> > > >>>> > [3] https://hibernate.zulipchat.com/
> > > >>>> > [4] https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/10647
> > > >>>> > [5] https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-orm
> > > >>>> > [6] https://slackdemo.com/
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > Yoann Rodi?re
> > > >>>> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > > >>>> > yoann at hibernate.org
> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________
> > > >>>> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > > >>>> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > > >>>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>>> hibernate-dev mailing list
> > > >>>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > > >>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> > _______________________________________________
> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>

From gunnar at hibernate.org  Mon Nov 12 05:31:11 2018
From: gunnar at hibernate.org (Gunnar Morling)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 11:31:11 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Chat migration - D minus 115 until the death of
	HipChat
In-Reply-To: <CALt0+o_5zkyQTWWNv6U8EkVe4LxdTDAxDSOrt_v_93AQ+RdpHA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEqagpqit=rUeNA+ZagM0NYA2rPhxXspqRDRQuNq-UqmMnLppg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO31HS2KN5v2rGYjcDf23+2+NC_97oKn2_RLK-HPC5usGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9s4UFG4JyPp=k+0pMyY8K-Es4TyOr9-CEHzGH2U4bT33Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpo83hCQqcFV5vgxEPSJH8wDLNVwyPmjiBoqB2NmRDFzkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpojJR4Xa0jGYjPcF1y7qaHjikbuYNAA2=-meGpJjPg99w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpp=NU0HLDeNh3U4gfe3J4Bf56gswnimzeTo4f994goobQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o_8LaHD9aHyojeSr1nf_rebYEO=mhG0G9CRpEbNpdPohg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADGJaX95SgNDLXyX3WPjz21b--+bSGb7tFHgyHmjANWuGe5Mtg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o_5zkyQTWWNv6U8EkVe4LxdTDAxDSOrt_v_93AQ+RdpHA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADGJaX9kaCX-OQRkafiVPrVhwkhDY+MuZ37JLDWKW+JMYpkiqw@mail.gmail.com>

I'm just on their website, e.g. https://gitter.im/debezium/dev.
There's an icon with three sliders in the upper right corner, next to
my own profile picture. "Notifications" let me choose when I'd like to
have a sound, e.g. never, just for direction mentions or for general
mentions in a room.
Am Mo., 12. Nov. 2018 um 11:28 Uhr schrieb Guillaume Smet
<guillaume.smet at gmail.com>:
>
> Are you using the webapp?
>
> Because I don't see any preference to enable sound and there is no sound at all when I get a notification.
>
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:21 AM Gunnar Morling <gunnar at hibernate.org> wrote:
>>
>> Have you tried "Room Settings" -> "Notifications"? We're on Gitter for
>> Debezium, too, and in fact the notifications were too noisy for me, so
>> I turned them off :)
>>
>> --Gunnar
>>
>> Am Mo., 12. Nov. 2018 um 10:59 Uhr schrieb Guillaume Smet
>> <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>:
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > So, one thing I find particularly annoying with Gitter now that we are
>> > trying to use it for real interactions is the lack of notification sounds
>> > in the webapp. When you're focused on your work, it's really easy to miss
>> > the visual ones and having a sound really helped on HipChat.
>> >
>> > There is an open issue here:
>> > https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitter/webapp/issues/735 .
>> >
>> > AFAICS in the commit log, there's one person working on Gitter and it's not
>> > making tremendous progress.
>> >
>> > (Yeah, I know, it's Open Source, I can contribute...)
>> >
>> > --
>> > Guillaume
>> >
>> > On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 3:47 PM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi,
>> > >
>> > > TL;DR: I created the Gitter rooms. Let's all go there for a few days, at
>> > > least to try it?
>> > >
>> > > *Connecting*
>> > >
>> > > Obviously you can just connect to https://gitter.im/ and use the browser.
>> > > You can sign in with your Github, Gitlab or Twitter account.
>> > >
>> > > There are also desktop/mobile applications. https://gitter.im/apps
>> > > They only provide .deb packages, though, and I wasn't able to convert them
>> > > easily using alien (I didn't try very hard). There is a snap out there, but
>> > > it's an old version that isn't allow to use the Gitter APIs anymore.
>> > >
>> > > If you prefer to use IRC, they apparently provide a bridge. I don't know
>> > > what it's worth, but you can always give it a try: see
>> > > https://irc.gitter.im/ .
>> > >
>> > > *What's next?*
>> > >
>> > > Let's try to use it for a few days, see if everyone is comfortable with it?
>> > > Let's see if there isn't any blocker for anyone, and if the news from other
>> > > projects (such as WildFly moving to Slack) don't make use change our minds.
>> > >
>> > > Then if everyone is okay with it, we can finalize everything:
>> > >
>> > >    - Invite external people to our rooms (I didn't invite anyone except our
>> > >    own team)
>> > >    - Advertise Gitter as our main chat platform:
>> > >    - On our websites
>> > >       - On IRC (we should at least mention it in the "message of the day")
>> > >       - On the hibernate-announce mailing list
>> > >       - In the REAME file of our projects through a badge: [![Gitter](
>> > >       https://badges.gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-room-id.svg)](
>> > >       https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-room-id
>> > >       ?utm_source=badge&utm_medium=badge&utm_campaign=pr-badge)
>> > >    - Close the HipChat rooms somehow.
>> > >
>> > > *Available rooms*
>> > >
>> > > For each of our main projects, I created one room bound to the GitHub
>> > > repository for users, and *one *-dev room for our own use*.
>> > > I also created rooms based on what I could see in HipChat (branding, ...).
>> > >
>> > > You can find a list of all rooms here: https://gitter.im/hibernate/home
>> > >
>> > > I already added people according to which room they were member of in
>> > > HipChat, but I may have missed some. Please check which room you are
>> > > subscribed to.
>> > >
>> > > *Settings*
>> > >
>> > > You can configure how often you want to be notified for each room: go to
>> > > the room, click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the top
>> > > right, then "Notifications".
>> > > In this same popup, you have the option of setting general defaults.
>> > >
>> > > Also, a dark theme is available: click on your avatar on the top right,
>> > > then "Toggle Dark Theme".
>> > >
>> > > That's pretty much it.
>> > >
>> > > *Configuring your rooms*
>> > >
>> > > I configured the main rooms to  receive Github notifications on the
>> > > "activity tab" to the right, as well as Jenkins notifications for the
>> > > "master" and "PR" job (when I found it). Feel free to add more integration
>> > > if you want to.
>> > >
>> > > How to add a Jenkins integration:
>> > >
>> > >    - If your room doesn't have a Jenkins integration yet (most have):
>> > >    - Go to the room on Gitter
>> > >       - Click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the top
>> > >       right, then "Integrations".
>> > >       - Select "Jenkins"
>> > >       - Select the events you want to be notified of
>> > >       - Copy the webhook URL near the bottom
>> > >       - Create new credentials on Jenkins:
>> > >
>> > > http://ci.hibernate.org/credentials/store/system/domain/_/newCredentials
>> > >          - In the "Kind" field, select "Secret text"
>> > >          - Leave the "Scope" to "Global"
>> > >          - In the "Secret" field, paste the webhook URL
>> > >          - In the "ID" field, put "gitter-webhook-url-<ID of your room>"
>> > >          - In the "description" field, put "Gitter webhook URL for the <ID
>> > >          of your room> room"
>> > >          - Click "OK"
>> > >          - For each Jenkins job:
>> > >       - On the job page in Jenkins, click "Configure"
>> > >       - Select the "Job Notifications" tab near the top
>> > >       - Click "Add endpoint"
>> > >       - Leave the format to "JSON" and the protocol to "HTTP"
>> > >       - Set "URL Source" to "Credentials Store"
>> > >       - In the "URL" box, select the entry corresponding to your room,
>> > >       which should normally appear as "Gitter webhook URL for the <ID of
>> > >       your room> room"
>> > >       - Click "Save"
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Hibernate NoORM Team
>> > > yoann at hibernate.org
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 at 11:40, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > I think all day-to-day users of our chat voted. Here are the results:
>> > > >
>> > > > IRC:     4 Yes, 5 "if need be", 6 no.
>> > > > Slack:   5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no
>> > > > Zulip:   5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no
>> > > > Gitter: 10 Yes, 1 "if need be", 4 no
>> > > >
>> > > > It seems Gitter won. That's the only option with more "Yes" than "No"...
>> > > > It's got the most "Yes" (even counting "if need be"), and perhaps more
>> > > > importantly it's got the least amount of "no".
>> > > >
>> > > > To those who voted no: if you have specific concerns about Gitter, could
>> > > > you please mention them here? Maybe we can find solutions to some of the
>> > > > problems.
>> > > >
>> > > > I'll look into moving the Hibernate Search chat to Gitter and will report
>> > > > back on this thread.
>> > > >
>> > > > Yoann Rodi?re
>> > > > Hibernate NoORM Team
>> > > > yoann at hibernate.org
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 at 08:25, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >> Not everyone voted, far from it; we're missing votes from Gail,
>> > > >> Guillaume, Fabio, Chris, Davide, Emmanuel, Koen. So no, no consensus
>> > > yet.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> I sent an email to them off-list, perhaps they didn't see this thread.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Provisional results are as follows:
>> > > >>
>> > > >> IRC: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no
>> > > >> Slack: 2 Yes, 2 "if need be", 4 no
>> > > >> Zulip: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no
>> > > >> Gitter: 6 Yes, 0 "if need be", 2 no
>> > > >>
>> > > >> So Gitter seems on the verge of winning, but apparently some people are
>> > > >> categorically against it, so I'd say we'll have to give them a chance to
>> > > >> explain why. I'll wait for everyone to answer, though, since they could
>> > > >> completely change the results.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Yoann Rodi?re
>> > > >> Hibernate NoORM Team
>> > > >> yoann at hibernate.org
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 13:35, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >>> Any consensus on this yet?
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:21 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
>> > > >>> wrote:
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>> Thanks for starting this!
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> The choice of IRC is a bit special on the list as we never intended it
>> > > >>>> to be killed: it has been historically important and we should
>> > > >>>> maintain some level of reachability on it.  So voting for the "IRC"
>> > > >>>> choice just means a preference to not use anything else on top of it,
>> > > >>>> while alternatively we'' be using X on top of IRC, albeit with a
>> > > >>>> preference to use X for team conversations.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Also good to remind: please try to be on IRC as well occasionally as
>> > > >>>> many in the OSS community we integrate with will reach out there.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Thanks,
>> > > >>>> Sanne
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 at 09:46, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
>> > > >>>> wrote:
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > Hi,
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > TL;DR: please vote here if you don't want to end up having to use a
>> > > >>>> chat
>> > > >>>> > tool you don't like: https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > HipChat Cloud will stop working on February 15th, 2019 [1]. We need
>> > > to
>> > > >>>> > choose an alternative before we have our back against the wall, so
>> > > >>>> I'll try
>> > > >>>> > to resurrect the conversation.
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > As a reminder, Stride is no longer an option: Atlassian cancelled
>> > > the
>> > > >>>> > project, and encourages users to migrate to Slack.
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > The discussed options so far were:
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> >    - *Moving back to IRC*. Aye: ?; nay: ?
>> > > >>>> >    Pros: simple as hell.
>> > > >>>> >    Cons: basic as hell; we won't keep the chat history.
>> > > >>>> >    - *Migrating to Slack* [6], as suggested by Atlassian [2]. Aye:
>> > > >>>> >    Christian B; Nay: ?
>> > > >>>> >    Pros: we will keep the chat history (I think).
>> > > >>>> >    Cons: not open-source; desktop client consumes a lot of
>> > > resources.
>> > > >>>> >    - *Migrating to Zulip* [3]. Aye: Emmanuel, Yoann. Nay: Guillaume
>> > > >>>> (kind
>> > > >>>> >    of).
>> > > >>>> >    Pros: Advanced conversation management thanks to the "topics"
>> > > >>>> feature.
>> > > >>>> >    Cons: Complex to use because of the "topics" feature; we won't
>> > > >>>> keep the
>> > > >>>> >    chat history (1).
>> > > >>>> >    - *Migrating to Gitter* [5] (we'll create different rooms,
>> > > >>>> probably).
>> > > >>>> >    Aye: ?, Nay: ?
>> > > >>>> >    Pros: Users seem to actually go there, so we could have our "live
>> > > >>>> >    support" rooms next to our "internal discussion" rooms.
>> > > >>>> >    Cons: not open-source; we won't keep the chat history (1).
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > I created a poll based on the discussion we had on the thread
>> > > >>>> > "[hibernate-dev] Stride". I think everyone had the time to suggest
>> > > >>>> another
>> > > >>>> > option.
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > Please vote here and now, or remain silent forever ;):
>> > > >>>> > https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > I'd suggest the following rules: if there's a single clear winner (a
>> > > >>>> > platform that everyone would be happy with), we'll pick that one. If
>> > > >>>> there
>> > > >>>> > are multiple clear winners, whoever does the migration work will
>> > > pick
>> > > >>>> > what's easier to set up (taking into account the various
>> > > >>>> integrations).
>> > > >>>> > Otherwise, back to discussing it on this thread...
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > (1) There seems to be some work in progress on a migration tool from
>> > > >>>> > HipChat to Zulip, but it doesn't seem to be ready yet [4]
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > [1]
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>>
>> > > https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/faq#faq-da2b66a1-53d3-4c4e-a405-467d961336f7
>> > > >>>> > [2] https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/migration
>> > > >>>> > [3] https://hibernate.zulipchat.com/
>> > > >>>> > [4] https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/10647
>> > > >>>> > [5] https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-orm
>> > > >>>> > [6] https://slackdemo.com/
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > Yoann Rodi?re
>> > > >>>> > Hibernate NoORM Team
>> > > >>>> > yoann at hibernate.org
>> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________
>> > > >>>> > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > > >>>> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> > > >>>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________
>> > > >>>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > > >>>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> > > >>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev


From guillaume.smet at gmail.com  Mon Nov 12 05:33:06 2018
From: guillaume.smet at gmail.com (Guillaume Smet)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 11:33:06 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Chat migration - D minus 115 until the death of
	HipChat
In-Reply-To: <CADGJaX9kaCX-OQRkafiVPrVhwkhDY+MuZ37JLDWKW+JMYpkiqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEqagpqit=rUeNA+ZagM0NYA2rPhxXspqRDRQuNq-UqmMnLppg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO31HS2KN5v2rGYjcDf23+2+NC_97oKn2_RLK-HPC5usGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9s4UFG4JyPp=k+0pMyY8K-Es4TyOr9-CEHzGH2U4bT33Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpo83hCQqcFV5vgxEPSJH8wDLNVwyPmjiBoqB2NmRDFzkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpojJR4Xa0jGYjPcF1y7qaHjikbuYNAA2=-meGpJjPg99w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpp=NU0HLDeNh3U4gfe3J4Bf56gswnimzeTo4f994goobQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o_8LaHD9aHyojeSr1nf_rebYEO=mhG0G9CRpEbNpdPohg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADGJaX95SgNDLXyX3WPjz21b--+bSGb7tFHgyHmjANWuGe5Mtg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o_5zkyQTWWNv6U8EkVe4LxdTDAxDSOrt_v_93AQ+RdpHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADGJaX9kaCX-OQRkafiVPrVhwkhDY+MuZ37JLDWKW+JMYpkiqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALt0+o8Q3YqmB=oOT-H4ZFLfAZ8XpQr_OyekKFq-Sfc9Z5C_EQ@mail.gmail.com>

It's not about having a sound, it's about having a notification e.g. if you
don't enable the OS sounds, you don't have a sound.

E.g. I think it's your Mac notification framework that produces the sound.


On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:31 AM Gunnar Morling <gunnar at hibernate.org>
wrote:

> I'm just on their website, e.g. https://gitter.im/debezium/dev.
> There's an icon with three sliders in the upper right corner, next to
> my own profile picture. "Notifications" let me choose when I'd like to
> have a sound, e.g. never, just for direction mentions or for general
> mentions in a room.
> Am Mo., 12. Nov. 2018 um 11:28 Uhr schrieb Guillaume Smet
> <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>:
> >
> > Are you using the webapp?
> >
> > Because I don't see any preference to enable sound and there is no sound
> at all when I get a notification.
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:21 AM Gunnar Morling <gunnar at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Have you tried "Room Settings" -> "Notifications"? We're on Gitter for
> >> Debezium, too, and in fact the notifications were too noisy for me, so
> >> I turned them off :)
> >>
> >> --Gunnar
> >>
> >> Am Mo., 12. Nov. 2018 um 10:59 Uhr schrieb Guillaume Smet
> >> <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>:
> >> >
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > So, one thing I find particularly annoying with Gitter now that we are
> >> > trying to use it for real interactions is the lack of notification
> sounds
> >> > in the webapp. When you're focused on your work, it's really easy to
> miss
> >> > the visual ones and having a sound really helped on HipChat.
> >> >
> >> > There is an open issue here:
> >> > https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitter/webapp/issues/735 .
> >> >
> >> > AFAICS in the commit log, there's one person working on Gitter and
> it's not
> >> > making tremendous progress.
> >> >
> >> > (Yeah, I know, it's Open Source, I can contribute...)
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Guillaume
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 3:47 PM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Hi,
> >> > >
> >> > > TL;DR: I created the Gitter rooms. Let's all go there for a few
> days, at
> >> > > least to try it?
> >> > >
> >> > > *Connecting*
> >> > >
> >> > > Obviously you can just connect to https://gitter.im/ and use the
> browser.
> >> > > You can sign in with your Github, Gitlab or Twitter account.
> >> > >
> >> > > There are also desktop/mobile applications. https://gitter.im/apps
> >> > > They only provide .deb packages, though, and I wasn't able to
> convert them
> >> > > easily using alien (I didn't try very hard). There is a snap out
> there, but
> >> > > it's an old version that isn't allow to use the Gitter APIs anymore.
> >> > >
> >> > > If you prefer to use IRC, they apparently provide a bridge. I don't
> know
> >> > > what it's worth, but you can always give it a try: see
> >> > > https://irc.gitter.im/ .
> >> > >
> >> > > *What's next?*
> >> > >
> >> > > Let's try to use it for a few days, see if everyone is comfortable
> with it?
> >> > > Let's see if there isn't any blocker for anyone, and if the news
> from other
> >> > > projects (such as WildFly moving to Slack) don't make use change
> our minds.
> >> > >
> >> > > Then if everyone is okay with it, we can finalize everything:
> >> > >
> >> > >    - Invite external people to our rooms (I didn't invite anyone
> except our
> >> > >    own team)
> >> > >    - Advertise Gitter as our main chat platform:
> >> > >    - On our websites
> >> > >       - On IRC (we should at least mention it in the "message of
> the day")
> >> > >       - On the hibernate-announce mailing list
> >> > >       - In the REAME file of our projects through a badge:
> [![Gitter](
> >> > >       https://badges.gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-room-id.svg)](
> >> > >       https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-room-id
> >> > >       ?utm_source=badge&utm_medium=badge&utm_campaign=pr-badge)
> >> > >    - Close the HipChat rooms somehow.
> >> > >
> >> > > *Available rooms*
> >> > >
> >> > > For each of our main projects, I created one room bound to the
> GitHub
> >> > > repository for users, and *one *-dev room for our own use*.
> >> > > I also created rooms based on what I could see in HipChat
> (branding, ...).
> >> > >
> >> > > You can find a list of all rooms here:
> https://gitter.im/hibernate/home
> >> > >
> >> > > I already added people according to which room they were member of
> in
> >> > > HipChat, but I may have missed some. Please check which room you are
> >> > > subscribed to.
> >> > >
> >> > > *Settings*
> >> > >
> >> > > You can configure how often you want to be notified for each room:
> go to
> >> > > the room, click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the
> top
> >> > > right, then "Notifications".
> >> > > In this same popup, you have the option of setting general defaults.
> >> > >
> >> > > Also, a dark theme is available: click on your avatar on the top
> right,
> >> > > then "Toggle Dark Theme".
> >> > >
> >> > > That's pretty much it.
> >> > >
> >> > > *Configuring your rooms*
> >> > >
> >> > > I configured the main rooms to  receive Github notifications on the
> >> > > "activity tab" to the right, as well as Jenkins notifications for
> the
> >> > > "master" and "PR" job (when I found it). Feel free to add more
> integration
> >> > > if you want to.
> >> > >
> >> > > How to add a Jenkins integration:
> >> > >
> >> > >    - If your room doesn't have a Jenkins integration yet (most
> have):
> >> > >    - Go to the room on Gitter
> >> > >       - Click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the
> top
> >> > >       right, then "Integrations".
> >> > >       - Select "Jenkins"
> >> > >       - Select the events you want to be notified of
> >> > >       - Copy the webhook URL near the bottom
> >> > >       - Create new credentials on Jenkins:
> >> > >
> >> > >
> http://ci.hibernate.org/credentials/store/system/domain/_/newCredentials
> >> > >          - In the "Kind" field, select "Secret text"
> >> > >          - Leave the "Scope" to "Global"
> >> > >          - In the "Secret" field, paste the webhook URL
> >> > >          - In the "ID" field, put "gitter-webhook-url-<ID of your
> room>"
> >> > >          - In the "description" field, put "Gitter webhook URL for
> the <ID
> >> > >          of your room> room"
> >> > >          - Click "OK"
> >> > >          - For each Jenkins job:
> >> > >       - On the job page in Jenkins, click "Configure"
> >> > >       - Select the "Job Notifications" tab near the top
> >> > >       - Click "Add endpoint"
> >> > >       - Leave the format to "JSON" and the protocol to "HTTP"
> >> > >       - Set "URL Source" to "Credentials Store"
> >> > >       - In the "URL" box, select the entry corresponding to your
> room,
> >> > >       which should normally appear as "Gitter webhook URL for the
> <ID of
> >> > >       your room> room"
> >> > >       - Click "Save"
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Hibernate NoORM Team
> >> > > yoann at hibernate.org
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 at 11:40, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > I think all day-to-day users of our chat voted. Here are the
> results:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > IRC:     4 Yes, 5 "if need be", 6 no.
> >> > > > Slack:   5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no
> >> > > > Zulip:   5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no
> >> > > > Gitter: 10 Yes, 1 "if need be", 4 no
> >> > > >
> >> > > > It seems Gitter won. That's the only option with more "Yes" than
> "No"...
> >> > > > It's got the most "Yes" (even counting "if need be"), and perhaps
> more
> >> > > > importantly it's got the least amount of "no".
> >> > > >
> >> > > > To those who voted no: if you have specific concerns about
> Gitter, could
> >> > > > you please mention them here? Maybe we can find solutions to some
> of the
> >> > > > problems.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I'll look into moving the Hibernate Search chat to Gitter and
> will report
> >> > > > back on this thread.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Yoann Rodi?re
> >> > > > Hibernate NoORM Team
> >> > > > yoann at hibernate.org
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 at 08:25, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > >> Not everyone voted, far from it; we're missing votes from Gail,
> >> > > >> Guillaume, Fabio, Chris, Davide, Emmanuel, Koen. So no, no
> consensus
> >> > > yet.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> I sent an email to them off-list, perhaps they didn't see this
> thread.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> Provisional results are as follows:
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> IRC: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no
> >> > > >> Slack: 2 Yes, 2 "if need be", 4 no
> >> > > >> Zulip: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no
> >> > > >> Gitter: 6 Yes, 0 "if need be", 2 no
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> So Gitter seems on the verge of winning, but apparently some
> people are
> >> > > >> categorically against it, so I'd say we'll have to give them a
> chance to
> >> > > >> explain why. I'll wait for everyone to answer, though, since
> they could
> >> > > >> completely change the results.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> Yoann Rodi?re
> >> > > >> Hibernate NoORM Team
> >> > > >> yoann at hibernate.org
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 13:35, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org
> >
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>> Any consensus on this yet?
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:21 AM Sanne Grinovero <
> sanne at hibernate.org>
> >> > > >>> wrote:
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>> Thanks for starting this!
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> The choice of IRC is a bit special on the list as we never
> intended it
> >> > > >>>> to be killed: it has been historically important and we should
> >> > > >>>> maintain some level of reachability on it.  So voting for the
> "IRC"
> >> > > >>>> choice just means a preference to not use anything else on top
> of it,
> >> > > >>>> while alternatively we'' be using X on top of IRC, albeit with
> a
> >> > > >>>> preference to use X for team conversations.
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> Also good to remind: please try to be on IRC as well
> occasionally as
> >> > > >>>> many in the OSS community we integrate with will reach out
> there.
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> Thanks,
> >> > > >>>> Sanne
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 at 09:46, Yoann Rodiere <
> yoann at hibernate.org>
> >> > > >>>> wrote:
> >> > > >>>> >
> >> > > >>>> > Hi,
> >> > > >>>> >
> >> > > >>>> > TL;DR: please vote here if you don't want to end up having
> to use a
> >> > > >>>> chat
> >> > > >>>> > tool you don't like:
> https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
> >> > > >>>> >
> >> > > >>>> > HipChat Cloud will stop working on February 15th, 2019 [1].
> We need
> >> > > to
> >> > > >>>> > choose an alternative before we have our back against the
> wall, so
> >> > > >>>> I'll try
> >> > > >>>> > to resurrect the conversation.
> >> > > >>>> >
> >> > > >>>> > As a reminder, Stride is no longer an option: Atlassian
> cancelled
> >> > > the
> >> > > >>>> > project, and encourages users to migrate to Slack.
> >> > > >>>> >
> >> > > >>>> > The discussed options so far were:
> >> > > >>>> >
> >> > > >>>> >    - *Moving back to IRC*. Aye: ?; nay: ?
> >> > > >>>> >    Pros: simple as hell.
> >> > > >>>> >    Cons: basic as hell; we won't keep the chat history.
> >> > > >>>> >    - *Migrating to Slack* [6], as suggested by Atlassian
> [2]. Aye:
> >> > > >>>> >    Christian B; Nay: ?
> >> > > >>>> >    Pros: we will keep the chat history (I think).
> >> > > >>>> >    Cons: not open-source; desktop client consumes a lot of
> >> > > resources.
> >> > > >>>> >    - *Migrating to Zulip* [3]. Aye: Emmanuel, Yoann. Nay:
> Guillaume
> >> > > >>>> (kind
> >> > > >>>> >    of).
> >> > > >>>> >    Pros: Advanced conversation management thanks to the
> "topics"
> >> > > >>>> feature.
> >> > > >>>> >    Cons: Complex to use because of the "topics" feature; we
> won't
> >> > > >>>> keep the
> >> > > >>>> >    chat history (1).
> >> > > >>>> >    - *Migrating to Gitter* [5] (we'll create different rooms,
> >> > > >>>> probably).
> >> > > >>>> >    Aye: ?, Nay: ?
> >> > > >>>> >    Pros: Users seem to actually go there, so we could have
> our "live
> >> > > >>>> >    support" rooms next to our "internal discussion" rooms.
> >> > > >>>> >    Cons: not open-source; we won't keep the chat history (1).
> >> > > >>>> >
> >> > > >>>> > I created a poll based on the discussion we had on the thread
> >> > > >>>> > "[hibernate-dev] Stride". I think everyone had the time to
> suggest
> >> > > >>>> another
> >> > > >>>> > option.
> >> > > >>>> >
> >> > > >>>> > Please vote here and now, or remain silent forever ;):
> >> > > >>>> > https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
> >> > > >>>> >
> >> > > >>>> > I'd suggest the following rules: if there's a single clear
> winner (a
> >> > > >>>> > platform that everyone would be happy with), we'll pick that
> one. If
> >> > > >>>> there
> >> > > >>>> > are multiple clear winners, whoever does the migration work
> will
> >> > > pick
> >> > > >>>> > what's easier to set up (taking into account the various
> >> > > >>>> integrations).
> >> > > >>>> > Otherwise, back to discussing it on this thread...
> >> > > >>>> >
> >> > > >>>> > (1) There seems to be some work in progress on a migration
> tool from
> >> > > >>>> > HipChat to Zulip, but it doesn't seem to be ready yet [4]
> >> > > >>>> >
> >> > > >>>> > [1]
> >> > > >>>> >
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > >
> https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/faq#faq-da2b66a1-53d3-4c4e-a405-467d961336f7
> >> > > >>>> > [2] https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/migration
> >> > > >>>> > [3] https://hibernate.zulipchat.com/
> >> > > >>>> > [4] https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/10647
> >> > > >>>> > [5] https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-orm
> >> > > >>>> > [6] https://slackdemo.com/
> >> > > >>>> >
> >> > > >>>> > Yoann Rodi?re
> >> > > >>>> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> >> > > >>>> > yoann at hibernate.org
> >> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________
> >> > > >>>> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> > > >>>> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> >> > > >>>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> > > >>>> hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> > > >>>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> >> > > >>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> > > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> >> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> >> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>

From sanne at hibernate.org  Mon Nov 12 05:34:52 2018
From: sanne at hibernate.org (Sanne Grinovero)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 10:34:52 +0000
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Chat migration - D minus 115 until the death of
	HipChat
In-Reply-To: <CALt0+o_8LaHD9aHyojeSr1nf_rebYEO=mhG0G9CRpEbNpdPohg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEqagpqit=rUeNA+ZagM0NYA2rPhxXspqRDRQuNq-UqmMnLppg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO31HS2KN5v2rGYjcDf23+2+NC_97oKn2_RLK-HPC5usGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9s4UFG4JyPp=k+0pMyY8K-Es4TyOr9-CEHzGH2U4bT33Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpo83hCQqcFV5vgxEPSJH8wDLNVwyPmjiBoqB2NmRDFzkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpojJR4Xa0jGYjPcF1y7qaHjikbuYNAA2=-meGpJjPg99w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpp=NU0HLDeNh3U4gfe3J4Bf56gswnimzeTo4f994goobQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o_8LaHD9aHyojeSr1nf_rebYEO=mhG0G9CRpEbNpdPohg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFm4XO0+-jL91HK9v_+LEAVcE6ajGx9BL53R2pXMh2WPSrKQxA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 10:15, Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> So, one thing I find particularly annoying with Gitter now that we are
> trying to use it for real interactions is the lack of notification sounds
> in the webapp. When you're focused on your work, it's really easy to miss
> the visual ones and having a sound really helped on HipChat.
>
> There is an open issue here:
> https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitter/webapp/issues/735 .
>
> AFAICS in the commit log, there's one person working on Gitter and it's not
> making tremendous progress.
>
> (Yeah, I know, it's Open Source, I can contribute...)

As you can see from the logs, we tried to use Gitter in the past -
before HipChat.

What you mention now are pretty much the same reasons for which we
were skeptical back then; although I must say it improved a lot so
maybe they are not fast but they seem on track and committed, better
than HipChat for sure :D

If one wants a lot of features then clearly only Slack is the way to
go. Not saying we should go with Slack, just that we'll need to be
patient and we'll always be short of some features - if that's not
acceptable then only Slack will make you happy.

It's quite nice of Gitter that it kinda encourages Github users and
makes our rooms easy to find; it's a better use of our time to help &
interact other developers.

BTW the issue you linked to suggests the native clients don't have
this specific problem.. might want to try that?

-- Sanne

>
> --
> Guillaume
>
> On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 3:47 PM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > TL;DR: I created the Gitter rooms. Let's all go there for a few days, at
> > least to try it?
> >
> > *Connecting*
> >
> > Obviously you can just connect to https://gitter.im/ and use the browser.
> > You can sign in with your Github, Gitlab or Twitter account.
> >
> > There are also desktop/mobile applications. https://gitter.im/apps
> > They only provide .deb packages, though, and I wasn't able to convert them
> > easily using alien (I didn't try very hard). There is a snap out there, but
> > it's an old version that isn't allow to use the Gitter APIs anymore.
> >
> > If you prefer to use IRC, they apparently provide a bridge. I don't know
> > what it's worth, but you can always give it a try: see
> > https://irc.gitter.im/ .
> >
> > *What's next?*
> >
> > Let's try to use it for a few days, see if everyone is comfortable with it?
> > Let's see if there isn't any blocker for anyone, and if the news from other
> > projects (such as WildFly moving to Slack) don't make use change our minds.
> >
> > Then if everyone is okay with it, we can finalize everything:
> >
> >    - Invite external people to our rooms (I didn't invite anyone except our
> >    own team)
> >    - Advertise Gitter as our main chat platform:
> >    - On our websites
> >       - On IRC (we should at least mention it in the "message of the day")
> >       - On the hibernate-announce mailing list
> >       - In the REAME file of our projects through a badge: [![Gitter](
> >       https://badges.gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-room-id.svg)](
> >       https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-room-id
> >       ?utm_source=badge&utm_medium=badge&utm_campaign=pr-badge)
> >    - Close the HipChat rooms somehow.
> >
> > *Available rooms*
> >
> > For each of our main projects, I created one room bound to the GitHub
> > repository for users, and *one *-dev room for our own use*.
> > I also created rooms based on what I could see in HipChat (branding, ...).
> >
> > You can find a list of all rooms here: https://gitter.im/hibernate/home
> >
> > I already added people according to which room they were member of in
> > HipChat, but I may have missed some. Please check which room you are
> > subscribed to.
> >
> > *Settings*
> >
> > You can configure how often you want to be notified for each room: go to
> > the room, click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the top
> > right, then "Notifications".
> > In this same popup, you have the option of setting general defaults.
> >
> > Also, a dark theme is available: click on your avatar on the top right,
> > then "Toggle Dark Theme".
> >
> > That's pretty much it.
> >
> > *Configuring your rooms*
> >
> > I configured the main rooms to  receive Github notifications on the
> > "activity tab" to the right, as well as Jenkins notifications for the
> > "master" and "PR" job (when I found it). Feel free to add more integration
> > if you want to.
> >
> > How to add a Jenkins integration:
> >
> >    - If your room doesn't have a Jenkins integration yet (most have):
> >    - Go to the room on Gitter
> >       - Click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the top
> >       right, then "Integrations".
> >       - Select "Jenkins"
> >       - Select the events you want to be notified of
> >       - Copy the webhook URL near the bottom
> >       - Create new credentials on Jenkins:
> >
> > http://ci.hibernate.org/credentials/store/system/domain/_/newCredentials
> >          - In the "Kind" field, select "Secret text"
> >          - Leave the "Scope" to "Global"
> >          - In the "Secret" field, paste the webhook URL
> >          - In the "ID" field, put "gitter-webhook-url-<ID of your room>"
> >          - In the "description" field, put "Gitter webhook URL for the <ID
> >          of your room> room"
> >          - Click "OK"
> >          - For each Jenkins job:
> >       - On the job page in Jenkins, click "Configure"
> >       - Select the "Job Notifications" tab near the top
> >       - Click "Add endpoint"
> >       - Leave the format to "JSON" and the protocol to "HTTP"
> >       - Set "URL Source" to "Credentials Store"
> >       - In the "URL" box, select the entry corresponding to your room,
> >       which should normally appear as "Gitter webhook URL for the <ID of
> >       your room> room"
> >       - Click "Save"
> >
> >
> >
> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > yoann at hibernate.org
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 at 11:40, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
> >
> > > I think all day-to-day users of our chat voted. Here are the results:
> > >
> > > IRC:     4 Yes, 5 "if need be", 6 no.
> > > Slack:   5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no
> > > Zulip:   5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no
> > > Gitter: 10 Yes, 1 "if need be", 4 no
> > >
> > > It seems Gitter won. That's the only option with more "Yes" than "No"...
> > > It's got the most "Yes" (even counting "if need be"), and perhaps more
> > > importantly it's got the least amount of "no".
> > >
> > > To those who voted no: if you have specific concerns about Gitter, could
> > > you please mention them here? Maybe we can find solutions to some of the
> > > problems.
> > >
> > > I'll look into moving the Hibernate Search chat to Gitter and will report
> > > back on this thread.
> > >
> > > Yoann Rodi?re
> > > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > > yoann at hibernate.org
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 at 08:25, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Not everyone voted, far from it; we're missing votes from Gail,
> > >> Guillaume, Fabio, Chris, Davide, Emmanuel, Koen. So no, no consensus
> > yet.
> > >>
> > >> I sent an email to them off-list, perhaps they didn't see this thread.
> > >>
> > >> Provisional results are as follows:
> > >>
> > >> IRC: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no
> > >> Slack: 2 Yes, 2 "if need be", 4 no
> > >> Zulip: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no
> > >> Gitter: 6 Yes, 0 "if need be", 2 no
> > >>
> > >> So Gitter seems on the verge of winning, but apparently some people are
> > >> categorically against it, so I'd say we'll have to give them a chance to
> > >> explain why. I'll wait for everyone to answer, though, since they could
> > >> completely change the results.
> > >>
> > >> Yoann Rodi?re
> > >> Hibernate NoORM Team
> > >> yoann at hibernate.org
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 13:35, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Any consensus on this yet?
> > >>>
> > >>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:21 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Thanks for starting this!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The choice of IRC is a bit special on the list as we never intended it
> > >>>> to be killed: it has been historically important and we should
> > >>>> maintain some level of reachability on it.  So voting for the "IRC"
> > >>>> choice just means a preference to not use anything else on top of it,
> > >>>> while alternatively we'' be using X on top of IRC, albeit with a
> > >>>> preference to use X for team conversations.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Also good to remind: please try to be on IRC as well occasionally as
> > >>>> many in the OSS community we integrate with will reach out there.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks,
> > >>>> Sanne
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 at 09:46, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > Hi,
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > TL;DR: please vote here if you don't want to end up having to use a
> > >>>> chat
> > >>>> > tool you don't like: https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > HipChat Cloud will stop working on February 15th, 2019 [1]. We need
> > to
> > >>>> > choose an alternative before we have our back against the wall, so
> > >>>> I'll try
> > >>>> > to resurrect the conversation.
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > As a reminder, Stride is no longer an option: Atlassian cancelled
> > the
> > >>>> > project, and encourages users to migrate to Slack.
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > The discussed options so far were:
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >    - *Moving back to IRC*. Aye: ?; nay: ?
> > >>>> >    Pros: simple as hell.
> > >>>> >    Cons: basic as hell; we won't keep the chat history.
> > >>>> >    - *Migrating to Slack* [6], as suggested by Atlassian [2]. Aye:
> > >>>> >    Christian B; Nay: ?
> > >>>> >    Pros: we will keep the chat history (I think).
> > >>>> >    Cons: not open-source; desktop client consumes a lot of
> > resources.
> > >>>> >    - *Migrating to Zulip* [3]. Aye: Emmanuel, Yoann. Nay: Guillaume
> > >>>> (kind
> > >>>> >    of).
> > >>>> >    Pros: Advanced conversation management thanks to the "topics"
> > >>>> feature.
> > >>>> >    Cons: Complex to use because of the "topics" feature; we won't
> > >>>> keep the
> > >>>> >    chat history (1).
> > >>>> >    - *Migrating to Gitter* [5] (we'll create different rooms,
> > >>>> probably).
> > >>>> >    Aye: ?, Nay: ?
> > >>>> >    Pros: Users seem to actually go there, so we could have our "live
> > >>>> >    support" rooms next to our "internal discussion" rooms.
> > >>>> >    Cons: not open-source; we won't keep the chat history (1).
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > I created a poll based on the discussion we had on the thread
> > >>>> > "[hibernate-dev] Stride". I think everyone had the time to suggest
> > >>>> another
> > >>>> > option.
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > Please vote here and now, or remain silent forever ;):
> > >>>> > https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > I'd suggest the following rules: if there's a single clear winner (a
> > >>>> > platform that everyone would be happy with), we'll pick that one. If
> > >>>> there
> > >>>> > are multiple clear winners, whoever does the migration work will
> > pick
> > >>>> > what's easier to set up (taking into account the various
> > >>>> integrations).
> > >>>> > Otherwise, back to discussing it on this thread...
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > (1) There seems to be some work in progress on a migration tool from
> > >>>> > HipChat to Zulip, but it doesn't seem to be ready yet [4]
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > [1]
> > >>>> >
> > >>>>
> > https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/faq#faq-da2b66a1-53d3-4c4e-a405-467d961336f7
> > >>>> > [2] https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/migration
> > >>>> > [3] https://hibernate.zulipchat.com/
> > >>>> > [4] https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/10647
> > >>>> > [5] https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-orm
> > >>>> > [6] https://slackdemo.com/
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > Yoann Rodi?re
> > >>>> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > >>>> > yoann at hibernate.org
> > >>>> > _______________________________________________
> > >>>> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > >>>> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > >>>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> hibernate-dev mailing list
> > >>>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > >>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > _______________________________________________
> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev


From guillaume.smet at gmail.com  Mon Nov 12 05:59:19 2018
From: guillaume.smet at gmail.com (Guillaume Smet)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 11:59:19 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Chat migration - D minus 115 until the death of
	HipChat
In-Reply-To: <CAFm4XO0+-jL91HK9v_+LEAVcE6ajGx9BL53R2pXMh2WPSrKQxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEqagpqit=rUeNA+ZagM0NYA2rPhxXspqRDRQuNq-UqmMnLppg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO31HS2KN5v2rGYjcDf23+2+NC_97oKn2_RLK-HPC5usGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9s4UFG4JyPp=k+0pMyY8K-Es4TyOr9-CEHzGH2U4bT33Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpo83hCQqcFV5vgxEPSJH8wDLNVwyPmjiBoqB2NmRDFzkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpojJR4Xa0jGYjPcF1y7qaHjikbuYNAA2=-meGpJjPg99w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpp=NU0HLDeNh3U4gfe3J4Bf56gswnimzeTo4f994goobQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o_8LaHD9aHyojeSr1nf_rebYEO=mhG0G9CRpEbNpdPohg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO0+-jL91HK9v_+LEAVcE6ajGx9BL53R2pXMh2WPSrKQxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALt0+o-FLidU_m6SrGV5Zu+ASdK62qKHT7_kmJo0bj3nMB_XeQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:35 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
wrote:

> If one wants a lot of features then clearly only Slack is the way to
> go. Not saying we should go with Slack, just that we'll need to be
> patient and we'll always be short of some features - if that's not
> acceptable then only Slack will make you happy.
>

TBH, I don't care about fancy features. Gitter is OK for me but yeah not
having sound is really annoying.

I might miss notifications from time to time.

In any case, it will mostly be a problem for you all if you ping me :).


> BTW the issue you linked to suggests the native clients don't have
> this specific problem.. might want to try that?
>

I prefer to have it in the browser where I do most of my interactions with
people.

And AFAIK, Yoann wrote they were only packaged as deb (and not very excited
about compiling it).

BTW, tbh, I'm a bit worried GitLab has only one dev on it if they want to
become a player in this area. They certainly have some work to do to catch
up with others.

-- 
Guillaume

From aepedraza3117 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 12 09:26:08 2018
From: aepedraza3117 at gmail.com (Alvaro Pedraza)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 11:26:08 -0300
Subject: [hibernate-dev] HipChat
Message-ID: <9BC3474D-16BA-49B8-AB36-E80876EDC2C0@gmail.com>

Hello everyone:
I know HipChat is about to die soon, but I need to login until the migration is complete. For some reason I?m unable to login to HipChat. Here is what I?ve tried so far:
From JIRA issue page (e.g. https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-10661 <https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-10661> in my case) click on "Confirm access to your HipChat account? link and entered my credentials. I don?t remember how I logged in the first time to Hibernate?s JIRA so I tried Google, Github and finally Atlassian (because I have an Atlassian account previous to my Hibernate?s contributions)
Searched on Atlassian help and found an article (https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/hipchat-integration <https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/hipchat-integration>) but I didn?t found the JIRA admin console
Can anyone give me some support with this? Thanks in advance for you time.

Best regards: Alvaro Pedraza - Argentina

From guillaume.smet at gmail.com  Mon Nov 12 09:41:45 2018
From: guillaume.smet at gmail.com (Guillaume Smet)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 15:41:45 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] HipChat
In-Reply-To: <9BC3474D-16BA-49B8-AB36-E80876EDC2C0@gmail.com>
References: <9BC3474D-16BA-49B8-AB36-E80876EDC2C0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALt0+o-WSDA_xcn06WpLPNNQxnVw=HyJ4V22gX4d2-ptYFhiHw@mail.gmail.com>

Ah yes, I seem to remember that they removed the ability to create new
accounts (which is a shame for existing communities planning their
migration but that's how it is).

We are trying gitter at the moment so you can join us here (in the
hibernate community, we have a bunch of rooms).

Not sure it will be our final destination though, we are still discussing
it.

Cheers,

-- 
Guillaume

On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 3:29 PM Alvaro Pedraza <aepedraza3117 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hello everyone:
> I know HipChat is about to die soon, but I need to login until the
> migration is complete. For some reason I?m unable to login to HipChat. Here
> is what I?ve tried so far:
> From JIRA issue page (e.g.
> https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-10661 <
> https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-10661> in my case) click on
> "Confirm access to your HipChat account? link and entered my credentials. I
> don?t remember how I logged in the first time to Hibernate?s JIRA so I
> tried Google, Github and finally Atlassian (because I have an Atlassian
> account previous to my Hibernate?s contributions)
> Searched on Atlassian help and found an article (
> https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/hipchat-integration <
> https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/hipchat-integration>) but I
> didn?t found the JIRA admin console
> Can anyone give me some support with this? Thanks in advance for you time.
>
> Best regards: Alvaro Pedraza - Argentina
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

From sanne at hibernate.org  Mon Nov 12 10:14:27 2018
From: sanne at hibernate.org (Sanne Grinovero)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 15:14:27 +0000
Subject: [hibernate-dev] HipChat
In-Reply-To: <CALt0+o-WSDA_xcn06WpLPNNQxnVw=HyJ4V22gX4d2-ptYFhiHw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9BC3474D-16BA-49B8-AB36-E80876EDC2C0@gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o-WSDA_xcn06WpLPNNQxnVw=HyJ4V22gX4d2-ptYFhiHw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFm4XO1wJO9Z12+Nmk_KUN4UaPg=OExMW0Zmu5LF2DL2GVQuwg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Alvaro,

I forced the system to send you an HipChat invite. I don't know if it
works, good luck :)

You're very welcome to join us on gitter or IRC until we get clarity
on what we'll be using in the future.

Thanks,
Sanne

On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 14:48, Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ah yes, I seem to remember that they removed the ability to create new
> accounts (which is a shame for existing communities planning their
> migration but that's how it is).
>
> We are trying gitter at the moment so you can join us here (in the
> hibernate community, we have a bunch of rooms).
>
> Not sure it will be our final destination though, we are still discussing
> it.
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Guillaume
>
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 3:29 PM Alvaro Pedraza <aepedraza3117 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone:
> > I know HipChat is about to die soon, but I need to login until the
> > migration is complete. For some reason I?m unable to login to HipChat. Here
> > is what I?ve tried so far:
> > From JIRA issue page (e.g.
> > https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-10661 <
> > https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-10661> in my case) click on
> > "Confirm access to your HipChat account? link and entered my credentials. I
> > don?t remember how I logged in the first time to Hibernate?s JIRA so I
> > tried Google, Github and finally Atlassian (because I have an Atlassian
> > account previous to my Hibernate?s contributions)
> > Searched on Atlassian help and found an article (
> > https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/hipchat-integration <
> > https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/hipchat-integration>) but I
> > didn?t found the JIRA admin console
> > Can anyone give me some support with this? Thanks in advance for you time.
> >
> > Best regards: Alvaro Pedraza - Argentina
> > _______________________________________________
> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev


From yoann at hibernate.org  Mon Nov 12 10:16:28 2018
From: yoann at hibernate.org (Yoann Rodiere)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 16:16:28 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] HipChat
In-Reply-To: <CALt0+o-WSDA_xcn06WpLPNNQxnVw=HyJ4V22gX4d2-ptYFhiHw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9BC3474D-16BA-49B8-AB36-E80876EDC2C0@gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o-WSDA_xcn06WpLPNNQxnVw=HyJ4V22gX4d2-ptYFhiHw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqagprNvvyemz6q3+ZJmShnXnVaF6kQ5HXhYhfP_Ye9ZPbQBw@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, signing into our HipChat as a new member is difficult, maybe
impossible. I tried the same in the WildFly HipChat and had to request
being invited.

I tried to invite you, but got the following error:

We encountered the following errors:
It appears aepedraza3117 at gmail.com already has a HipChat account. Right
now, HipChat only works with one email per HipChat team.
So I invited you with the address aepedraza3117+hibernate at gmail.com. But as
Guillaume said, it would be more convenient on Gitter at the moment.


Yoann Rodi?re
Hibernate NoORM Team
yoann at hibernate.org


On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 15:48, Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Ah yes, I seem to remember that they removed the ability to create new
> accounts (which is a shame for existing communities planning their
> migration but that's how it is).
>
> We are trying gitter at the moment so you can join us here (in the
> hibernate community, we have a bunch of rooms).
>
> Not sure it will be our final destination though, we are still discussing
> it.
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Guillaume
>
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 3:29 PM Alvaro Pedraza <aepedraza3117 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone:
> > I know HipChat is about to die soon, but I need to login until the
> > migration is complete. For some reason I?m unable to login to HipChat.
> Here
> > is what I?ve tried so far:
> > From JIRA issue page (e.g.
> > https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-10661 <
> > https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-10661> in my case) click on
> > "Confirm access to your HipChat account? link and entered my
> credentials. I
> > don?t remember how I logged in the first time to Hibernate?s JIRA so I
> > tried Google, Github and finally Atlassian (because I have an Atlassian
> > account previous to my Hibernate?s contributions)
> > Searched on Atlassian help and found an article (
> > https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/hipchat-integration <
> > https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/hipchat-integration>) but I
> > didn?t found the JIRA admin console
> > Can anyone give me some support with this? Thanks in advance for you
> time.
> >
> > Best regards: Alvaro Pedraza - Argentina
> > _______________________________________________
> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

From steve at hibernate.org  Mon Nov 12 10:43:21 2018
From: steve at hibernate.org (Steve Ebersole)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 09:43:21 -0600
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Chat migration - D minus 115 until the death of
	HipChat
In-Reply-To: <CALt0+o-FLidU_m6SrGV5Zu+ASdK62qKHT7_kmJo0bj3nMB_XeQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEqagpqit=rUeNA+ZagM0NYA2rPhxXspqRDRQuNq-UqmMnLppg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO31HS2KN5v2rGYjcDf23+2+NC_97oKn2_RLK-HPC5usGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9s4UFG4JyPp=k+0pMyY8K-Es4TyOr9-CEHzGH2U4bT33Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpo83hCQqcFV5vgxEPSJH8wDLNVwyPmjiBoqB2NmRDFzkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpojJR4Xa0jGYjPcF1y7qaHjikbuYNAA2=-meGpJjPg99w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpp=NU0HLDeNh3U4gfe3J4Bf56gswnimzeTo4f994goobQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o_8LaHD9aHyojeSr1nf_rebYEO=mhG0G9CRpEbNpdPohg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO0+-jL91HK9v_+LEAVcE6ajGx9BL53R2pXMh2WPSrKQxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o-FLidU_m6SrGV5Zu+ASdK62qKHT7_kmJo0bj3nMB_XeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFdSV9tssPTqEy0Zo72SH-8iEQwZ5UXMgzk7fEC1joMUPivsVg@mail.gmail.com>

What is it a conscious decision to not require a GitHub account to join
these rooms?  I just noticed that is a toggle-option in the room's settings
also.

On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 6:17 AM Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:35 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
>
> > If one wants a lot of features then clearly only Slack is the way to
> > go. Not saying we should go with Slack, just that we'll need to be
> > patient and we'll always be short of some features - if that's not
> > acceptable then only Slack will make you happy.
> >
>
> TBH, I don't care about fancy features. Gitter is OK for me but yeah not
> having sound is really annoying.
>
> I might miss notifications from time to time.
>
> In any case, it will mostly be a problem for you all if you ping me :).
>
>
> > BTW the issue you linked to suggests the native clients don't have
> > this specific problem.. might want to try that?
> >
>
> I prefer to have it in the browser where I do most of my interactions with
> people.
>
> And AFAIK, Yoann wrote they were only packaged as deb (and not very excited
> about compiling it).
>
> BTW, tbh, I'm a bit worried GitLab has only one dev on it if they want to
> become a player in this area. They certainly have some work to do to catch
> up with others.
>
> --
> Guillaume
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>

From sanne at hibernate.org  Mon Nov 12 11:17:51 2018
From: sanne at hibernate.org (Sanne Grinovero)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 16:17:51 +0000
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Chat migration - D minus 115 until the death of
	HipChat
In-Reply-To: <CALt0+o8Q3YqmB=oOT-H4ZFLfAZ8XpQr_OyekKFq-Sfc9Z5C_EQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEqagpqit=rUeNA+ZagM0NYA2rPhxXspqRDRQuNq-UqmMnLppg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO31HS2KN5v2rGYjcDf23+2+NC_97oKn2_RLK-HPC5usGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9s4UFG4JyPp=k+0pMyY8K-Es4TyOr9-CEHzGH2U4bT33Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpo83hCQqcFV5vgxEPSJH8wDLNVwyPmjiBoqB2NmRDFzkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpojJR4Xa0jGYjPcF1y7qaHjikbuYNAA2=-meGpJjPg99w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpp=NU0HLDeNh3U4gfe3J4Bf56gswnimzeTo4f994goobQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o_8LaHD9aHyojeSr1nf_rebYEO=mhG0G9CRpEbNpdPohg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADGJaX95SgNDLXyX3WPjz21b--+bSGb7tFHgyHmjANWuGe5Mtg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o_5zkyQTWWNv6U8EkVe4LxdTDAxDSOrt_v_93AQ+RdpHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADGJaX9kaCX-OQRkafiVPrVhwkhDY+MuZ37JLDWKW+JMYpkiqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o8Q3YqmB=oOT-H4ZFLfAZ8XpQr_OyekKFq-Sfc9Z5C_EQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFm4XO0n1zSdyFzTM_Sck_3gzCZT=6uX2eU4xgq6A5qWMVcviw@mail.gmail.com>

The easy way to install Gitter natively on Fedora:

> flatpak install flathub im.gitter.Gitter

Or you can do it via browser:

Click on the main link here, then open and confirm install:
https://flatpak.org/setup/Fedora/

Same again on:
https://flathub.org/apps/details/im.gitter.Gitter


On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 10:38, Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It's not about having a sound, it's about having a notification e.g. if you
> don't enable the OS sounds, you don't have a sound.
>
> E.g. I think it's your Mac notification framework that produces the sound.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:31 AM Gunnar Morling <gunnar at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
>
> > I'm just on their website, e.g. https://gitter.im/debezium/dev.
> > There's an icon with three sliders in the upper right corner, next to
> > my own profile picture. "Notifications" let me choose when I'd like to
> > have a sound, e.g. never, just for direction mentions or for general
> > mentions in a room.
> > Am Mo., 12. Nov. 2018 um 11:28 Uhr schrieb Guillaume Smet
> > <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>:
> > >
> > > Are you using the webapp?
> > >
> > > Because I don't see any preference to enable sound and there is no sound
> > at all when I get a notification.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:21 AM Gunnar Morling <gunnar at hibernate.org>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Have you tried "Room Settings" -> "Notifications"? We're on Gitter for
> > >> Debezium, too, and in fact the notifications were too noisy for me, so
> > >> I turned them off :)
> > >>
> > >> --Gunnar
> > >>
> > >> Am Mo., 12. Nov. 2018 um 10:59 Uhr schrieb Guillaume Smet
> > >> <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>:
> > >> >
> > >> > Hi,
> > >> >
> > >> > So, one thing I find particularly annoying with Gitter now that we are
> > >> > trying to use it for real interactions is the lack of notification
> > sounds
> > >> > in the webapp. When you're focused on your work, it's really easy to
> > miss
> > >> > the visual ones and having a sound really helped on HipChat.
> > >> >
> > >> > There is an open issue here:
> > >> > https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitter/webapp/issues/735 .
> > >> >
> > >> > AFAICS in the commit log, there's one person working on Gitter and
> > it's not
> > >> > making tremendous progress.
> > >> >
> > >> > (Yeah, I know, it's Open Source, I can contribute...)
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > Guillaume
> > >> >
> > >> > On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 3:47 PM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Hi,
> > >> > >
> > >> > > TL;DR: I created the Gitter rooms. Let's all go there for a few
> > days, at
> > >> > > least to try it?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > *Connecting*
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Obviously you can just connect to https://gitter.im/ and use the
> > browser.
> > >> > > You can sign in with your Github, Gitlab or Twitter account.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > There are also desktop/mobile applications. https://gitter.im/apps
> > >> > > They only provide .deb packages, though, and I wasn't able to
> > convert them
> > >> > > easily using alien (I didn't try very hard). There is a snap out
> > there, but
> > >> > > it's an old version that isn't allow to use the Gitter APIs anymore.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > If you prefer to use IRC, they apparently provide a bridge. I don't
> > know
> > >> > > what it's worth, but you can always give it a try: see
> > >> > > https://irc.gitter.im/ .
> > >> > >
> > >> > > *What's next?*
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Let's try to use it for a few days, see if everyone is comfortable
> > with it?
> > >> > > Let's see if there isn't any blocker for anyone, and if the news
> > from other
> > >> > > projects (such as WildFly moving to Slack) don't make use change
> > our minds.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Then if everyone is okay with it, we can finalize everything:
> > >> > >
> > >> > >    - Invite external people to our rooms (I didn't invite anyone
> > except our
> > >> > >    own team)
> > >> > >    - Advertise Gitter as our main chat platform:
> > >> > >    - On our websites
> > >> > >       - On IRC (we should at least mention it in the "message of
> > the day")
> > >> > >       - On the hibernate-announce mailing list
> > >> > >       - In the REAME file of our projects through a badge:
> > [![Gitter](
> > >> > >       https://badges.gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-room-id.svg)](
> > >> > >       https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-room-id
> > >> > >       ?utm_source=badge&utm_medium=badge&utm_campaign=pr-badge)
> > >> > >    - Close the HipChat rooms somehow.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > *Available rooms*
> > >> > >
> > >> > > For each of our main projects, I created one room bound to the
> > GitHub
> > >> > > repository for users, and *one *-dev room for our own use*.
> > >> > > I also created rooms based on what I could see in HipChat
> > (branding, ...).
> > >> > >
> > >> > > You can find a list of all rooms here:
> > https://gitter.im/hibernate/home
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I already added people according to which room they were member of
> > in
> > >> > > HipChat, but I may have missed some. Please check which room you are
> > >> > > subscribed to.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > *Settings*
> > >> > >
> > >> > > You can configure how often you want to be notified for each room:
> > go to
> > >> > > the room, click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the
> > top
> > >> > > right, then "Notifications".
> > >> > > In this same popup, you have the option of setting general defaults.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Also, a dark theme is available: click on your avatar on the top
> > right,
> > >> > > then "Toggle Dark Theme".
> > >> > >
> > >> > > That's pretty much it.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > *Configuring your rooms*
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I configured the main rooms to  receive Github notifications on the
> > >> > > "activity tab" to the right, as well as Jenkins notifications for
> > the
> > >> > > "master" and "PR" job (when I found it). Feel free to add more
> > integration
> > >> > > if you want to.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > How to add a Jenkins integration:
> > >> > >
> > >> > >    - If your room doesn't have a Jenkins integration yet (most
> > have):
> > >> > >    - Go to the room on Gitter
> > >> > >       - Click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the
> > top
> > >> > >       right, then "Integrations".
> > >> > >       - Select "Jenkins"
> > >> > >       - Select the events you want to be notified of
> > >> > >       - Copy the webhook URL near the bottom
> > >> > >       - Create new credentials on Jenkins:
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > http://ci.hibernate.org/credentials/store/system/domain/_/newCredentials
> > >> > >          - In the "Kind" field, select "Secret text"
> > >> > >          - Leave the "Scope" to "Global"
> > >> > >          - In the "Secret" field, paste the webhook URL
> > >> > >          - In the "ID" field, put "gitter-webhook-url-<ID of your
> > room>"
> > >> > >          - In the "description" field, put "Gitter webhook URL for
> > the <ID
> > >> > >          of your room> room"
> > >> > >          - Click "OK"
> > >> > >          - For each Jenkins job:
> > >> > >       - On the job page in Jenkins, click "Configure"
> > >> > >       - Select the "Job Notifications" tab near the top
> > >> > >       - Click "Add endpoint"
> > >> > >       - Leave the format to "JSON" and the protocol to "HTTP"
> > >> > >       - Set "URL Source" to "Credentials Store"
> > >> > >       - In the "URL" box, select the entry corresponding to your
> > room,
> > >> > >       which should normally appear as "Gitter webhook URL for the
> > <ID of
> > >> > >       your room> room"
> > >> > >       - Click "Save"
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > >> > > yoann at hibernate.org
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 at 11:40, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
> > wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > I think all day-to-day users of our chat voted. Here are the
> > results:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > IRC:     4 Yes, 5 "if need be", 6 no.
> > >> > > > Slack:   5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no
> > >> > > > Zulip:   5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no
> > >> > > > Gitter: 10 Yes, 1 "if need be", 4 no
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > It seems Gitter won. That's the only option with more "Yes" than
> > "No"...
> > >> > > > It's got the most "Yes" (even counting "if need be"), and perhaps
> > more
> > >> > > > importantly it's got the least amount of "no".
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > To those who voted no: if you have specific concerns about
> > Gitter, could
> > >> > > > you please mention them here? Maybe we can find solutions to some
> > of the
> > >> > > > problems.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > I'll look into moving the Hibernate Search chat to Gitter and
> > will report
> > >> > > > back on this thread.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Yoann Rodi?re
> > >> > > > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > >> > > > yoann at hibernate.org
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 at 08:25, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
> > wrote:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >> Not everyone voted, far from it; we're missing votes from Gail,
> > >> > > >> Guillaume, Fabio, Chris, Davide, Emmanuel, Koen. So no, no
> > consensus
> > >> > > yet.
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> I sent an email to them off-list, perhaps they didn't see this
> > thread.
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> Provisional results are as follows:
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> IRC: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no
> > >> > > >> Slack: 2 Yes, 2 "if need be", 4 no
> > >> > > >> Zulip: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no
> > >> > > >> Gitter: 6 Yes, 0 "if need be", 2 no
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> So Gitter seems on the verge of winning, but apparently some
> > people are
> > >> > > >> categorically against it, so I'd say we'll have to give them a
> > chance to
> > >> > > >> explain why. I'll wait for everyone to answer, though, since
> > they could
> > >> > > >> completely change the results.
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> Yoann Rodi?re
> > >> > > >> Hibernate NoORM Team
> > >> > > >> yoann at hibernate.org
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 13:35, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org
> > >
> > >> > > wrote:
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>> Any consensus on this yet?
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:21 AM Sanne Grinovero <
> > sanne at hibernate.org>
> > >> > > >>> wrote:
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>>> Thanks for starting this!
> > >> > > >>>>
> > >> > > >>>> The choice of IRC is a bit special on the list as we never
> > intended it
> > >> > > >>>> to be killed: it has been historically important and we should
> > >> > > >>>> maintain some level of reachability on it.  So voting for the
> > "IRC"
> > >> > > >>>> choice just means a preference to not use anything else on top
> > of it,
> > >> > > >>>> while alternatively we'' be using X on top of IRC, albeit with
> > a
> > >> > > >>>> preference to use X for team conversations.
> > >> > > >>>>
> > >> > > >>>> Also good to remind: please try to be on IRC as well
> > occasionally as
> > >> > > >>>> many in the OSS community we integrate with will reach out
> > there.
> > >> > > >>>>
> > >> > > >>>> Thanks,
> > >> > > >>>> Sanne
> > >> > > >>>>
> > >> > > >>>> On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 at 09:46, Yoann Rodiere <
> > yoann at hibernate.org>
> > >> > > >>>> wrote:
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>> > Hi,
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>> > TL;DR: please vote here if you don't want to end up having
> > to use a
> > >> > > >>>> chat
> > >> > > >>>> > tool you don't like:
> > https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>> > HipChat Cloud will stop working on February 15th, 2019 [1].
> > We need
> > >> > > to
> > >> > > >>>> > choose an alternative before we have our back against the
> > wall, so
> > >> > > >>>> I'll try
> > >> > > >>>> > to resurrect the conversation.
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>> > As a reminder, Stride is no longer an option: Atlassian
> > cancelled
> > >> > > the
> > >> > > >>>> > project, and encourages users to migrate to Slack.
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>> > The discussed options so far were:
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>> >    - *Moving back to IRC*. Aye: ?; nay: ?
> > >> > > >>>> >    Pros: simple as hell.
> > >> > > >>>> >    Cons: basic as hell; we won't keep the chat history.
> > >> > > >>>> >    - *Migrating to Slack* [6], as suggested by Atlassian
> > [2]. Aye:
> > >> > > >>>> >    Christian B; Nay: ?
> > >> > > >>>> >    Pros: we will keep the chat history (I think).
> > >> > > >>>> >    Cons: not open-source; desktop client consumes a lot of
> > >> > > resources.
> > >> > > >>>> >    - *Migrating to Zulip* [3]. Aye: Emmanuel, Yoann. Nay:
> > Guillaume
> > >> > > >>>> (kind
> > >> > > >>>> >    of).
> > >> > > >>>> >    Pros: Advanced conversation management thanks to the
> > "topics"
> > >> > > >>>> feature.
> > >> > > >>>> >    Cons: Complex to use because of the "topics" feature; we
> > won't
> > >> > > >>>> keep the
> > >> > > >>>> >    chat history (1).
> > >> > > >>>> >    - *Migrating to Gitter* [5] (we'll create different rooms,
> > >> > > >>>> probably).
> > >> > > >>>> >    Aye: ?, Nay: ?
> > >> > > >>>> >    Pros: Users seem to actually go there, so we could have
> > our "live
> > >> > > >>>> >    support" rooms next to our "internal discussion" rooms.
> > >> > > >>>> >    Cons: not open-source; we won't keep the chat history (1).
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>> > I created a poll based on the discussion we had on the thread
> > >> > > >>>> > "[hibernate-dev] Stride". I think everyone had the time to
> > suggest
> > >> > > >>>> another
> > >> > > >>>> > option.
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>> > Please vote here and now, or remain silent forever ;):
> > >> > > >>>> > https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>> > I'd suggest the following rules: if there's a single clear
> > winner (a
> > >> > > >>>> > platform that everyone would be happy with), we'll pick that
> > one. If
> > >> > > >>>> there
> > >> > > >>>> > are multiple clear winners, whoever does the migration work
> > will
> > >> > > pick
> > >> > > >>>> > what's easier to set up (taking into account the various
> > >> > > >>>> integrations).
> > >> > > >>>> > Otherwise, back to discussing it on this thread...
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>> > (1) There seems to be some work in progress on a migration
> > tool from
> > >> > > >>>> > HipChat to Zulip, but it doesn't seem to be ready yet [4]
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>> > [1]
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>>
> > >> > >
> > https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/faq#faq-da2b66a1-53d3-4c4e-a405-467d961336f7
> > >> > > >>>> > [2] https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/migration
> > >> > > >>>> > [3] https://hibernate.zulipchat.com/
> > >> > > >>>> > [4] https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/10647
> > >> > > >>>> > [5] https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-orm
> > >> > > >>>> > [6] https://slackdemo.com/
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>> > Yoann Rodi?re
> > >> > > >>>> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > >> > > >>>> > yoann at hibernate.org
> > >> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > > >>>> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > >> > > >>>> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > >> > > >>>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> > >> > > >>>>
> > >> > > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >> > > >>>> hibernate-dev mailing list
> > >> > > >>>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > >> > > >>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > _______________________________________________
> > >> > > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > >> > > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > >> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > >> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > >> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev


From aepedraza3117 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 12 11:18:20 2018
From: aepedraza3117 at gmail.com (Alvaro Pedraza)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 13:18:20 -0300
Subject: [hibernate-dev] HipChat
In-Reply-To: <CAEqagprNvvyemz6q3+ZJmShnXnVaF6kQ5HXhYhfP_Ye9ZPbQBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9BC3474D-16BA-49B8-AB36-E80876EDC2C0@gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o-WSDA_xcn06WpLPNNQxnVw=HyJ4V22gX4d2-ptYFhiHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagprNvvyemz6q3+ZJmShnXnVaF6kQ5HXhYhfP_Ye9ZPbQBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E2B099F8-CB14-4537-B951-EA7E33E337D7@gmail.com>

Hello: I?m in Gitter already and I?m talking with Guillaume. Thanks for your time.

Best regards

> El 12 nov. 2018, a las 12:16, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> escribi?:
> 
> Yes, signing into our HipChat as a new member is difficult, maybe impossible. I tried the same in the WildFly HipChat and had to request being invited.
> 
> I tried to invite you, but got the following error:
> We encountered the following errors:
> It appears aepedraza3117 at gmail.com <mailto:aepedraza3117 at gmail.com> already has a HipChat account. Right now, HipChat only works with one email per HipChat team.
> 
> So I invited you with the address aepedraza3117+hibernate at gmail.com <mailto:aepedraza3117%2Bhibernate at gmail.com>. But as Guillaume said, it would be more convenient on Gitter at the moment.
> 
> 
> Yoann Rodi?re
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yoann at hibernate.org <mailto:yoann at hibernate.org>
> 
> 
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 15:48, Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com <mailto:guillaume.smet at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Ah yes, I seem to remember that they removed the ability to create new
> accounts (which is a shame for existing communities planning their
> migration but that's how it is).
> 
> We are trying gitter at the moment so you can join us here (in the
> hibernate community, we have a bunch of rooms).
> 
> Not sure it will be our final destination though, we are still discussing
> it.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> -- 
> Guillaume
> 
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 3:29 PM Alvaro Pedraza <aepedraza3117 at gmail.com <mailto:aepedraza3117 at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> 
> > Hello everyone:
> > I know HipChat is about to die soon, but I need to login until the
> > migration is complete. For some reason I?m unable to login to HipChat. Here
> > is what I?ve tried so far:
> > From JIRA issue page (e.g.
> > https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-10661 <https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-10661> <
> > https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-10661 <https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-10661>> in my case) click on
> > "Confirm access to your HipChat account? link and entered my credentials. I
> > don?t remember how I logged in the first time to Hibernate?s JIRA so I
> > tried Google, Github and finally Atlassian (because I have an Atlassian
> > account previous to my Hibernate?s contributions)
> > Searched on Atlassian help and found an article (
> > https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/hipchat-integration <https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/hipchat-integration> <
> > https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/hipchat-integration <https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/hipchat-integration>>) but I
> > didn?t found the JIRA admin console
> > Can anyone give me some support with this? Thanks in advance for you time.
> >
> > Best regards: Alvaro Pedraza - Argentina
> > _______________________________________________
> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org <mailto:hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org>
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev <https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev>
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org <mailto:hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org>
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev <https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev>

From sanne at hibernate.org  Mon Nov 12 11:20:10 2018
From: sanne at hibernate.org (Sanne Grinovero)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 16:20:10 +0000
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Chat migration - D minus 115 until the death of
	HipChat
In-Reply-To: <CAFdSV9tssPTqEy0Zo72SH-8iEQwZ5UXMgzk7fEC1joMUPivsVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEqagpqit=rUeNA+ZagM0NYA2rPhxXspqRDRQuNq-UqmMnLppg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO31HS2KN5v2rGYjcDf23+2+NC_97oKn2_RLK-HPC5usGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9s4UFG4JyPp=k+0pMyY8K-Es4TyOr9-CEHzGH2U4bT33Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpo83hCQqcFV5vgxEPSJH8wDLNVwyPmjiBoqB2NmRDFzkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpojJR4Xa0jGYjPcF1y7qaHjikbuYNAA2=-meGpJjPg99w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpp=NU0HLDeNh3U4gfe3J4Bf56gswnimzeTo4f994goobQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o_8LaHD9aHyojeSr1nf_rebYEO=mhG0G9CRpEbNpdPohg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO0+-jL91HK9v_+LEAVcE6ajGx9BL53R2pXMh2WPSrKQxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o-FLidU_m6SrGV5Zu+ASdK62qKHT7_kmJo0bj3nMB_XeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tssPTqEy0Zo72SH-8iEQwZ5UXMgzk7fEC1joMUPivsVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFm4XO09eOrgqHAK5SN5k6CW+hjhX=-9=jdJzHYCj==i5Ys9Vw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 16:02, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
> What is it a conscious decision to not require a GitHub account to join these rooms?  I just noticed that is a toggle-option in the room's settings also.

I don't remember. We created these rooms as an experiment in 2014..
Yoann created some more rooms recently.

Should we enforce people to have a Github account? I'd like that, I
think it would better nudge towards getting the right type of people
to join.

Thanks,
Sanne


>
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 6:17 AM Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:35 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > If one wants a lot of features then clearly only Slack is the way to
>> > go. Not saying we should go with Slack, just that we'll need to be
>> > patient and we'll always be short of some features - if that's not
>> > acceptable then only Slack will make you happy.
>> >
>>
>> TBH, I don't care about fancy features. Gitter is OK for me but yeah not
>> having sound is really annoying.
>>
>> I might miss notifications from time to time.
>>
>> In any case, it will mostly be a problem for you all if you ping me :).
>>
>>
>> > BTW the issue you linked to suggests the native clients don't have
>> > this specific problem.. might want to try that?
>> >
>>
>> I prefer to have it in the browser where I do most of my interactions with
>> people.
>>
>> And AFAIK, Yoann wrote they were only packaged as deb (and not very excited
>> about compiling it).
>>
>> BTW, tbh, I'm a bit worried GitLab has only one dev on it if they want to
>> become a player in this area. They certainly have some work to do to catch
>> up with others.
>>
>> --
>> Guillaume
>> _______________________________________________
>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

From yoann at hibernate.org  Mon Nov 12 12:26:42 2018
From: yoann at hibernate.org (Yoann Rodiere)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 18:26:42 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Chat migration - D minus 115 until the death of
	HipChat
In-Reply-To: <CAFm4XO09eOrgqHAK5SN5k6CW+hjhX=-9=jdJzHYCj==i5Ys9Vw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEqagpqit=rUeNA+ZagM0NYA2rPhxXspqRDRQuNq-UqmMnLppg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO31HS2KN5v2rGYjcDf23+2+NC_97oKn2_RLK-HPC5usGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9s4UFG4JyPp=k+0pMyY8K-Es4TyOr9-CEHzGH2U4bT33Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpo83hCQqcFV5vgxEPSJH8wDLNVwyPmjiBoqB2NmRDFzkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpojJR4Xa0jGYjPcF1y7qaHjikbuYNAA2=-meGpJjPg99w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpp=NU0HLDeNh3U4gfe3J4Bf56gswnimzeTo4f994goobQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o_8LaHD9aHyojeSr1nf_rebYEO=mhG0G9CRpEbNpdPohg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO0+-jL91HK9v_+LEAVcE6ajGx9BL53R2pXMh2WPSrKQxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o-FLidU_m6SrGV5Zu+ASdK62qKHT7_kmJo0bj3nMB_XeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tssPTqEy0Zo72SH-8iEQwZ5UXMgzk7fEC1joMUPivsVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO09eOrgqHAK5SN5k6CW+hjhX=-9=jdJzHYCj==i5Ys9Vw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqagpp75dM1GV+WpLuRND7wezkpp36fmNt5CfrVst7HW1QMsg@mail.gmail.com>

I don't see why we should force people to have a GitHub account,
considering there are other means of logging into Gitter.

As to getting the right type of people, I'm not sure it's relevant. Most
people are likely to have one, and those who don't are likely to not have
one for political reasons (think free software extremists) rather than
because they aren't tech savvy enough: while the "hibernate" naming might
confuse users looking for information about grizzly bears, I doubt my
grandmother, my 7-year-old nephew or even my non-software-engineer of a
wife would end up on Gitter by mistake.


Yoann Rodi?re
Hibernate NoORM Team
yoann at hibernate.org


On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 18:02, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org> wrote:

> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 16:02, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:
> >
> > What is it a conscious decision to not require a GitHub account to join
> these rooms?  I just noticed that is a toggle-option in the room's settings
> also.
>
> I don't remember. We created these rooms as an experiment in 2014..
> Yoann created some more rooms recently.
>
> Should we enforce people to have a Github account? I'd like that, I
> think it would better nudge towards getting the right type of people
> to join.
>
> Thanks,
> Sanne
>
>
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 6:17 AM Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:35 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > If one wants a lot of features then clearly only Slack is the way to
> >> > go. Not saying we should go with Slack, just that we'll need to be
> >> > patient and we'll always be short of some features - if that's not
> >> > acceptable then only Slack will make you happy.
> >> >
> >>
> >> TBH, I don't care about fancy features. Gitter is OK for me but yeah not
> >> having sound is really annoying.
> >>
> >> I might miss notifications from time to time.
> >>
> >> In any case, it will mostly be a problem for you all if you ping me :).
> >>
> >>
> >> > BTW the issue you linked to suggests the native clients don't have
> >> > this specific problem.. might want to try that?
> >> >
> >>
> >> I prefer to have it in the browser where I do most of my interactions
> with
> >> people.
> >>
> >> And AFAIK, Yoann wrote they were only packaged as deb (and not very
> excited
> >> about compiling it).
> >>
> >> BTW, tbh, I'm a bit worried GitLab has only one dev on it if they want
> to
> >> become a player in this area. They certainly have some work to do to
> catch
> >> up with others.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Guillaume
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>

From sanne at hibernate.org  Mon Nov 12 12:40:41 2018
From: sanne at hibernate.org (Sanne Grinovero)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 17:40:41 +0000
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Chat migration - D minus 115 until the death of
	HipChat
In-Reply-To: <CAEqagpp75dM1GV+WpLuRND7wezkpp36fmNt5CfrVst7HW1QMsg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEqagpqit=rUeNA+ZagM0NYA2rPhxXspqRDRQuNq-UqmMnLppg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO31HS2KN5v2rGYjcDf23+2+NC_97oKn2_RLK-HPC5usGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9s4UFG4JyPp=k+0pMyY8K-Es4TyOr9-CEHzGH2U4bT33Q@mail.gmail.com>
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	<CAEqagpojJR4Xa0jGYjPcF1y7qaHjikbuYNAA2=-meGpJjPg99w@mail.gmail.com>
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	<CAFm4XO0+-jL91HK9v_+LEAVcE6ajGx9BL53R2pXMh2WPSrKQxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o-FLidU_m6SrGV5Zu+ASdK62qKHT7_kmJo0bj3nMB_XeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tssPTqEy0Zo72SH-8iEQwZ5UXMgzk7fEC1joMUPivsVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO09eOrgqHAK5SN5k6CW+hjhX=-9=jdJzHYCj==i5Ys9Vw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpp75dM1GV+WpLuRND7wezkpp36fmNt5CfrVst7HW1QMsg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFm4XO0mW0H6qCNBisN5pBC0=hjqLdCPjCM0yC8pde9g1-bydw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 17:27, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
> I don't see why we should force people to have a GitHub account, considering there are other means of logging into Gitter.

Ok.

>
> As to getting the right type of people, I'm not sure it's relevant. Most people are likely to have one, and those who don't are likely to not have one for political reasons (think free software extremists) rather than because they aren't tech savvy enough: while the "hibernate" naming might confuse users looking for information about grizzly bears, I doubt my grandmother, my 7-year-old nephew or even my non-software-engineer of a wife would end up on Gitter by mistake.

Well since that's obvious, clearly I was referring to a different way
of cathegorizing people joining@ not by age or expertise in technology
but in having reasonable expectations and willing to do some research
before bothering us all.

You probably weren't around yet, but Hibernate has had hard times in
which it was "victim of its own success": just too many
kinda-interested people making a ton of basic questions that could be
easily solved otherwise.

Some "barriers" we have in place have made it manageable; of course I
can't tell if it's all merit of the barriers of entry or just people
coming in lower volumes with better intentions, but I'm confident that
some of the barriers we have have helped to keep some sanity (e.g.
login on #hibernate-dev on IRC requiring an account).

Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it might be
too successful as well.  But I guess we'll see, or let's use a very
bad chat platform so to keep people from coming :P

>
>
> Yoann Rodi?re
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yoann at hibernate.org
>
>
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 18:02, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 16:02, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > What is it a conscious decision to not require a GitHub account to join these rooms?  I just noticed that is a toggle-option in the room's settings also.
>>
>> I don't remember. We created these rooms as an experiment in 2014..
>> Yoann created some more rooms recently.
>>
>> Should we enforce people to have a Github account? I'd like that, I
>> think it would better nudge towards getting the right type of people
>> to join.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sanne
>>
>>
>> >
>> > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 6:17 AM Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:35 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > If one wants a lot of features then clearly only Slack is the way to
>> >> > go. Not saying we should go with Slack, just that we'll need to be
>> >> > patient and we'll always be short of some features - if that's not
>> >> > acceptable then only Slack will make you happy.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> TBH, I don't care about fancy features. Gitter is OK for me but yeah not
>> >> having sound is really annoying.
>> >>
>> >> I might miss notifications from time to time.
>> >>
>> >> In any case, it will mostly be a problem for you all if you ping me :).
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > BTW the issue you linked to suggests the native clients don't have
>> >> > this specific problem.. might want to try that?
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> I prefer to have it in the browser where I do most of my interactions with
>> >> people.
>> >>
>> >> And AFAIK, Yoann wrote they were only packaged as deb (and not very excited
>> >> about compiling it).
>> >>
>> >> BTW, tbh, I'm a bit worried GitLab has only one dev on it if they want to
>> >> become a player in this area. They certainly have some work to do to catch
>> >> up with others.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Guillaume
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> >> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev


From steve at hibernate.org  Mon Nov 12 13:34:28 2018
From: steve at hibernate.org (Steve Ebersole)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 12:34:28 -0600
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Chat migration - D minus 115 until the death of
	HipChat
In-Reply-To: <CAFm4XO0mW0H6qCNBisN5pBC0=hjqLdCPjCM0yC8pde9g1-bydw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEqagpqit=rUeNA+ZagM0NYA2rPhxXspqRDRQuNq-UqmMnLppg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO31HS2KN5v2rGYjcDf23+2+NC_97oKn2_RLK-HPC5usGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9s4UFG4JyPp=k+0pMyY8K-Es4TyOr9-CEHzGH2U4bT33Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpo83hCQqcFV5vgxEPSJH8wDLNVwyPmjiBoqB2NmRDFzkA@mail.gmail.com>
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	<CAEqagpp=NU0HLDeNh3U4gfe3J4Bf56gswnimzeTo4f994goobQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o_8LaHD9aHyojeSr1nf_rebYEO=mhG0G9CRpEbNpdPohg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO0+-jL91HK9v_+LEAVcE6ajGx9BL53R2pXMh2WPSrKQxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o-FLidU_m6SrGV5Zu+ASdK62qKHT7_kmJo0bj3nMB_XeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tssPTqEy0Zo72SH-8iEQwZ5UXMgzk7fEC1joMUPivsVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO09eOrgqHAK5SN5k6CW+hjhX=-9=jdJzHYCj==i5Ys9Vw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpp75dM1GV+WpLuRND7wezkpp36fmNt5CfrVst7HW1QMsg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO0mW0H6qCNBisN5pBC0=hjqLdCPjCM0yC8pde9g1-bydw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFdSV9vZpeHoNE5MMHxUJb8QA7eH2gTQMYLywUKbDOKKvJvREQ@mail.gmail.com>

For me its not so much about "the right kind of people".  More just
accountability.  But if some form of login in needed to use Gitter, that's
enough for me.  Sounded like the other option was "allow anonymous", which
I wanted to avoid.

On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:41 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
wrote:

> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 17:27, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
> >
> > I don't see why we should force people to have a GitHub account,
> considering there are other means of logging into Gitter.
>
> Ok.
>
> >
> > As to getting the right type of people, I'm not sure it's relevant. Most
> people are likely to have one, and those who don't are likely to not have
> one for political reasons (think free software extremists) rather than
> because they aren't tech savvy enough: while the "hibernate" naming might
> confuse users looking for information about grizzly bears, I doubt my
> grandmother, my 7-year-old nephew or even my non-software-engineer of a
> wife would end up on Gitter by mistake.
>
> Well since that's obvious, clearly I was referring to a different way
> of cathegorizing people joining@ not by age or expertise in technology
> but in having reasonable expectations and willing to do some research
> before bothering us all.
>
> You probably weren't around yet, but Hibernate has had hard times in
> which it was "victim of its own success": just too many
> kinda-interested people making a ton of basic questions that could be
> easily solved otherwise.
>
> Some "barriers" we have in place have made it manageable; of course I
> can't tell if it's all merit of the barriers of entry or just people
> coming in lower volumes with better intentions, but I'm confident that
> some of the barriers we have have helped to keep some sanity (e.g.
> login on #hibernate-dev on IRC requiring an account).
>
> Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it might be
> too successful as well.  But I guess we'll see, or let's use a very
> bad chat platform so to keep people from coming :P
>
> >
> >
> > Yoann Rodi?re
> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > yoann at hibernate.org
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 18:02, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 16:02, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > What is it a conscious decision to not require a GitHub account to
> join these rooms?  I just noticed that is a toggle-option in the room's
> settings also.
> >>
> >> I don't remember. We created these rooms as an experiment in 2014..
> >> Yoann created some more rooms recently.
> >>
> >> Should we enforce people to have a Github account? I'd like that, I
> >> think it would better nudge towards getting the right type of people
> >> to join.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Sanne
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 6:17 AM Guillaume Smet <
> guillaume.smet at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:35 AM Sanne Grinovero <
> sanne at hibernate.org>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > If one wants a lot of features then clearly only Slack is the way
> to
> >> >> > go. Not saying we should go with Slack, just that we'll need to be
> >> >> > patient and we'll always be short of some features - if that's not
> >> >> > acceptable then only Slack will make you happy.
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> TBH, I don't care about fancy features. Gitter is OK for me but yeah
> not
> >> >> having sound is really annoying.
> >> >>
> >> >> I might miss notifications from time to time.
> >> >>
> >> >> In any case, it will mostly be a problem for you all if you ping me
> :).
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > BTW the issue you linked to suggests the native clients don't have
> >> >> > this specific problem.. might want to try that?
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> I prefer to have it in the browser where I do most of my
> interactions with
> >> >> people.
> >> >>
> >> >> And AFAIK, Yoann wrote they were only packaged as deb (and not very
> excited
> >> >> about compiling it).
> >> >>
> >> >> BTW, tbh, I'm a bit worried GitLab has only one dev on it if they
> want to
> >> >> become a player in this area. They certainly have some work to do to
> catch
> >> >> up with others.
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Guillaume
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> >> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> >> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>

From yoann at hibernate.org  Tue Nov 13 02:49:36 2018
From: yoann at hibernate.org (Yoann Rodiere)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2018 08:49:36 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Chat migration - D minus 115 until the death of
	HipChat
In-Reply-To: <CAFdSV9vZpeHoNE5MMHxUJb8QA7eH2gTQMYLywUKbDOKKvJvREQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEqagpqit=rUeNA+ZagM0NYA2rPhxXspqRDRQuNq-UqmMnLppg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO31HS2KN5v2rGYjcDf23+2+NC_97oKn2_RLK-HPC5usGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9s4UFG4JyPp=k+0pMyY8K-Es4TyOr9-CEHzGH2U4bT33Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpo83hCQqcFV5vgxEPSJH8wDLNVwyPmjiBoqB2NmRDFzkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpojJR4Xa0jGYjPcF1y7qaHjikbuYNAA2=-meGpJjPg99w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpp=NU0HLDeNh3U4gfe3J4Bf56gswnimzeTo4f994goobQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o_8LaHD9aHyojeSr1nf_rebYEO=mhG0G9CRpEbNpdPohg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO0+-jL91HK9v_+LEAVcE6ajGx9BL53R2pXMh2WPSrKQxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o-FLidU_m6SrGV5Zu+ASdK62qKHT7_kmJo0bj3nMB_XeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tssPTqEy0Zo72SH-8iEQwZ5UXMgzk7fEC1joMUPivsVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO09eOrgqHAK5SN5k6CW+hjhX=-9=jdJzHYCj==i5Ys9Vw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpp75dM1GV+WpLuRND7wezkpp36fmNt5CfrVst7HW1QMsg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO0mW0H6qCNBisN5pBC0=hjqLdCPjCM0yC8pde9g1-bydw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9vZpeHoNE5MMHxUJb8QA7eH2gTQMYLywUKbDOKKvJvREQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqagpp6P9ZS_wnDvEPTj_VLLQSeviB7sr5vVTGmTg3nkztRKA@mail.gmail.com>

> Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it might be too
successful as well

Ok. Well, I guess we'll see. As I mentioned above, I don't think forcing
people to have a GitHub account will be very effective, but I can't suggest
a perfect solution either. Bots answering with a few links (documentation,
etc.) to the first message of each user come to mind, but that could be
considered rude, so I wouldn't do that unless the traffic becomes
unmanageable. Other solutions include kicking out "spammers" (but that
doesn't work if it's many users asking a single question), or making the
-dev rooms invite-only and only checking the user rooms once in a while
(might work if Gitter sends emails when your are mentioned while offline).
So, yeah, in short: I don't really know.

> More just accountability.  But if some form of login in needed to use
Gitter, that's enough for me.  Sounded like the other option was "allow
anonymous", which I wanted to avoid.

Then it should be fine: anonymous access apparently only allows to read
messages. Login through GitLab, GitHub or Twitter is necessary in order to
start posting new messages.

Yoann Rodi?re
Hibernate NoORM Team
yoann at hibernate.org


On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 19:34, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:

> For me its not so much about "the right kind of people".  More just
> accountability.  But if some form of login in needed to use Gitter, that's
> enough for me.  Sounded like the other option was "allow anonymous", which
> I wanted to avoid.
>
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:41 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 17:27, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > I don't see why we should force people to have a GitHub account,
>> considering there are other means of logging into Gitter.
>>
>> Ok.
>>
>> >
>> > As to getting the right type of people, I'm not sure it's relevant.
>> Most people are likely to have one, and those who don't are likely to not
>> have one for political reasons (think free software extremists) rather than
>> because they aren't tech savvy enough: while the "hibernate" naming might
>> confuse users looking for information about grizzly bears, I doubt my
>> grandmother, my 7-year-old nephew or even my non-software-engineer of a
>> wife would end up on Gitter by mistake.
>>
>> Well since that's obvious, clearly I was referring to a different way
>> of cathegorizing people joining@ not by age or expertise in technology
>> but in having reasonable expectations and willing to do some research
>> before bothering us all.
>>
>> You probably weren't around yet, but Hibernate has had hard times in
>> which it was "victim of its own success": just too many
>> kinda-interested people making a ton of basic questions that could be
>> easily solved otherwise.
>>
>> Some "barriers" we have in place have made it manageable; of course I
>> can't tell if it's all merit of the barriers of entry or just people
>> coming in lower volumes with better intentions, but I'm confident that
>> some of the barriers we have have helped to keep some sanity (e.g.
>> login on #hibernate-dev on IRC requiring an account).
>>
>> Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it might be
>> too successful as well.  But I guess we'll see, or let's use a very
>> bad chat platform so to keep people from coming :P
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > Yoann Rodi?re
>> > Hibernate NoORM Team
>> > yoann at hibernate.org
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 18:02, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 16:02, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > What is it a conscious decision to not require a GitHub account to
>> join these rooms?  I just noticed that is a toggle-option in the room's
>> settings also.
>> >>
>> >> I don't remember. We created these rooms as an experiment in 2014..
>> >> Yoann created some more rooms recently.
>> >>
>> >> Should we enforce people to have a Github account? I'd like that, I
>> >> think it would better nudge towards getting the right type of people
>> >> to join.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Sanne
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 6:17 AM Guillaume Smet <
>> guillaume.smet at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:35 AM Sanne Grinovero <
>> sanne at hibernate.org>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > If one wants a lot of features then clearly only Slack is the way
>> to
>> >> >> > go. Not saying we should go with Slack, just that we'll need to be
>> >> >> > patient and we'll always be short of some features - if that's not
>> >> >> > acceptable then only Slack will make you happy.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> TBH, I don't care about fancy features. Gitter is OK for me but
>> yeah not
>> >> >> having sound is really annoying.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I might miss notifications from time to time.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> In any case, it will mostly be a problem for you all if you ping me
>> :).
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > BTW the issue you linked to suggests the native clients don't have
>> >> >> > this specific problem.. might want to try that?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I prefer to have it in the browser where I do most of my
>> interactions with
>> >> >> people.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> And AFAIK, Yoann wrote they were only packaged as deb (and not very
>> excited
>> >> >> about compiling it).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> BTW, tbh, I'm a bit worried GitLab has only one dev on it if they
>> want to
>> >> >> become a player in this area. They certainly have some work to do
>> to catch
>> >> >> up with others.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Guillaume
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> >> >> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> >> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> >> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
>

From yoann at hibernate.org  Tue Nov 13 05:33:02 2018
From: yoann at hibernate.org (Yoann Rodiere)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2018 11:33:02 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Chat migration - D minus 115 until the death of
	HipChat
In-Reply-To: <CAEqagpp6P9ZS_wnDvEPTj_VLLQSeviB7sr5vVTGmTg3nkztRKA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEqagpqit=rUeNA+ZagM0NYA2rPhxXspqRDRQuNq-UqmMnLppg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO31HS2KN5v2rGYjcDf23+2+NC_97oKn2_RLK-HPC5usGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9s4UFG4JyPp=k+0pMyY8K-Es4TyOr9-CEHzGH2U4bT33Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpo83hCQqcFV5vgxEPSJH8wDLNVwyPmjiBoqB2NmRDFzkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpojJR4Xa0jGYjPcF1y7qaHjikbuYNAA2=-meGpJjPg99w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpp=NU0HLDeNh3U4gfe3J4Bf56gswnimzeTo4f994goobQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o_8LaHD9aHyojeSr1nf_rebYEO=mhG0G9CRpEbNpdPohg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO0+-jL91HK9v_+LEAVcE6ajGx9BL53R2pXMh2WPSrKQxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o-FLidU_m6SrGV5Zu+ASdK62qKHT7_kmJo0bj3nMB_XeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tssPTqEy0Zo72SH-8iEQwZ5UXMgzk7fEC1joMUPivsVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO09eOrgqHAK5SN5k6CW+hjhX=-9=jdJzHYCj==i5Ys9Vw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpp75dM1GV+WpLuRND7wezkpp36fmNt5CfrVst7HW1QMsg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO0mW0H6qCNBisN5pBC0=hjqLdCPjCM0yC8pde9g1-bydw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9vZpeHoNE5MMHxUJb8QA7eH2gTQMYLywUKbDOKKvJvREQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpp6P9ZS_wnDvEPTj_VLLQSeviB7sr5vVTGmTg3nkztRKA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqagpr7fDA1-3VfJCGvk7EYyUOiHBvP7iw8arZE-5JV94W3RQ@mail.gmail.com>

Copying a discussion from another thread in another mailing list:

Gunnar Morling:

I'm big -1 on Slack as long as it requires people to have a pay-for-license
> to get hold of the history for anything longer back than a few days
> (depending on traffic in chat rooms). This equates to loosing parts of our
> organizational memory unless paying ransom to Slack. Even if we manage to
> get some license for ourselves (dunno whether they have some OSS program),
> other users will be faced with the same problem, IIUC.
>

Guillaume Smet:

So Slack is by far the best UI to my taste (and it has sound in the webapp
> \o/).
>
> But:
> - there's no GitHub/Google authentication and it's always good to have to
> get external people in. Creating a new account is often an obstacle.
> - the history limit is a no-no. And I don't think we will have budget to
> pay for a paid instance. I don't see any specific plans for Open Source
> organizations.
>
> Not sure how Kabir planned to live with the history limit, I'll ask him.
>


On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 at 08:49, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:

> > Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it might be too
> successful as well
>
> Ok. Well, I guess we'll see. As I mentioned above, I don't think forcing
> people to have a GitHub account will be very effective, but I can't suggest
> a perfect solution either. Bots answering with a few links (documentation,
> etc.) to the first message of each user come to mind, but that could be
> considered rude, so I wouldn't do that unless the traffic becomes
> unmanageable. Other solutions include kicking out "spammers" (but that
> doesn't work if it's many users asking a single question), or making the
> -dev rooms invite-only and only checking the user rooms once in a while
> (might work if Gitter sends emails when your are mentioned while offline).
> So, yeah, in short: I don't really know.
>
> > More just accountability.  But if some form of login in needed to use
> Gitter, that's enough for me.  Sounded like the other option was "allow
> anonymous", which I wanted to avoid.
>
> Then it should be fine: anonymous access apparently only allows to read
> messages. Login through GitLab, GitHub or Twitter is necessary in order to
> start posting new messages.
>
> Yoann Rodi?re
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yoann at hibernate.org
>
>
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 19:34, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
>> For me its not so much about "the right kind of people".  More just
>> accountability.  But if some form of login in needed to use Gitter, that's
>> enough for me.  Sounded like the other option was "allow anonymous", which
>> I wanted to avoid.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:41 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 17:27, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I don't see why we should force people to have a GitHub account,
>>> considering there are other means of logging into Gitter.
>>>
>>> Ok.
>>>
>>> >
>>> > As to getting the right type of people, I'm not sure it's relevant.
>>> Most people are likely to have one, and those who don't are likely to not
>>> have one for political reasons (think free software extremists) rather than
>>> because they aren't tech savvy enough: while the "hibernate" naming might
>>> confuse users looking for information about grizzly bears, I doubt my
>>> grandmother, my 7-year-old nephew or even my non-software-engineer of a
>>> wife would end up on Gitter by mistake.
>>>
>>> Well since that's obvious, clearly I was referring to a different way
>>> of cathegorizing people joining@ not by age or expertise in technology
>>> but in having reasonable expectations and willing to do some research
>>> before bothering us all.
>>>
>>> You probably weren't around yet, but Hibernate has had hard times in
>>> which it was "victim of its own success": just too many
>>> kinda-interested people making a ton of basic questions that could be
>>> easily solved otherwise.
>>>
>>> Some "barriers" we have in place have made it manageable; of course I
>>> can't tell if it's all merit of the barriers of entry or just people
>>> coming in lower volumes with better intentions, but I'm confident that
>>> some of the barriers we have have helped to keep some sanity (e.g.
>>> login on #hibernate-dev on IRC requiring an account).
>>>
>>> Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it might be
>>> too successful as well.  But I guess we'll see, or let's use a very
>>> bad chat platform so to keep people from coming :P
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Yoann Rodi?re
>>> > Hibernate NoORM Team
>>> > yoann at hibernate.org
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 18:02, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 16:02, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > What is it a conscious decision to not require a GitHub account to
>>> join these rooms?  I just noticed that is a toggle-option in the room's
>>> settings also.
>>> >>
>>> >> I don't remember. We created these rooms as an experiment in 2014..
>>> >> Yoann created some more rooms recently.
>>> >>
>>> >> Should we enforce people to have a Github account? I'd like that, I
>>> >> think it would better nudge towards getting the right type of people
>>> >> to join.
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks,
>>> >> Sanne
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 6:17 AM Guillaume Smet <
>>> guillaume.smet at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:35 AM Sanne Grinovero <
>>> sanne at hibernate.org>
>>> >> >> wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> > If one wants a lot of features then clearly only Slack is the
>>> way to
>>> >> >> > go. Not saying we should go with Slack, just that we'll need to
>>> be
>>> >> >> > patient and we'll always be short of some features - if that's
>>> not
>>> >> >> > acceptable then only Slack will make you happy.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> TBH, I don't care about fancy features. Gitter is OK for me but
>>> yeah not
>>> >> >> having sound is really annoying.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I might miss notifications from time to time.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> In any case, it will mostly be a problem for you all if you ping
>>> me :).
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> > BTW the issue you linked to suggests the native clients don't
>>> have
>>> >> >> > this specific problem.. might want to try that?
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I prefer to have it in the browser where I do most of my
>>> interactions with
>>> >> >> people.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> And AFAIK, Yoann wrote they were only packaged as deb (and not
>>> very excited
>>> >> >> about compiling it).
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> BTW, tbh, I'm a bit worried GitLab has only one dev on it if they
>>> want to
>>> >> >> become a player in this area. They certainly have some work to do
>>> to catch
>>> >> >> up with others.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> --
>>> >> >> Guillaume
>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
>>> >> >> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>> >> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
>>> >> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>>
>>

From guillaume.smet at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 14:48:23 2018
From: guillaume.smet at gmail.com (Guillaume Smet)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2018 20:48:23 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] ORM 5.4.0 release schedule
Message-ID: <CALt0+o8_9aPN-yyLMOo22j74ByT4VkJSv69vBdyLY3_UDPb9nA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

We discussed the 5.4.0 release schedule with Gail and decided on the
following:

- Tomorrow Wednesday 6PM CET (e.g. Paris time): master is frozen, please
don't commit anything to master after this time. And please don't commit
anything without proper review.
- Tomorrow her time, Gail will run the TCK and the API checks - hopefully
it won't go too bad
- I'll release CR1 Thursday afternoon my time

Please don't commit anything to master after Wednesday 6PM CET (obviously
unless it fixes TCK tests or API issues).

Note that CR meaning candidate release, the idea is to not push anything
else until Final, except if we have reports from the fields.

I don't think it's worth creating a branch as we will have to backport
everything anyway so please refrain from merging anything until Final, once
CR1 is released.

Thanks everyone.

-- 
Guillaume

From sanne at hibernate.org  Wed Nov 14 10:11:08 2018
From: sanne at hibernate.org (Sanne Grinovero)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 15:11:08 +0000
Subject: [hibernate-dev] JIRA self-registration of users
In-Reply-To: <CAFm4XO2bqv7McT-Z4+whf_Vd0kTfTXJv9L1YtrUAyLQ=wSnMYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFm4XO2bqv7McT-Z4+whf_Vd0kTfTXJv9L1YtrUAyLQ=wSnMYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFm4XO0pafnfKdDvLv_A14DMaJ0ut_qpeswtxX2RYOOfD8h93w@mail.gmail.com>

This was now resolved by Atlassian support. Thanks all!

On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 at 10:46, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm receiving requests to approve people who are creating accounts on JIRA.
>
> While it's good to see lots of people interested in registering, I've
> never had to approve these before.
>
> Did someone change settings or should I report this to Atlassian?
>
> Thanks,
> Sanne

From sanne at hibernate.org  Thu Nov 15 07:37:04 2018
From: sanne at hibernate.org (Sanne Grinovero)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 12:37:04 +0000
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Moderation of in.relation.to
Message-ID: <CAFm4XO2gGo-UObSZ9f+CcV4XuY30=rPM_yH=cNddaOyS6Rg+Bg@mail.gmail.com>

Apparently I stopped receiving notifications from Discus about needing
to approve a comment, and it looks like you all did?

I just noticed as someome mentioned "while my other comment is not
approved" and I thought "wait, what? I know nothing about other
pending comments.." and didn't see any clue on the UI either.

I eventually found the comments approval queue, and there were a dozen
comments waiting; some >8 months old. Embarassing :(

Let's make sure that at least some of us receive a timely
notification. Any volunteers to register for this? I will register
myself, hoping that some more of you will join on this.

Thanks,
Sanne

From guillaume.smet at hibernate.org  Thu Nov 15 10:19:26 2018
From: guillaume.smet at hibernate.org (Guillaume Smet)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 16:19:26 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Hibernate ORM 5.4.0.CR1 released
Message-ID: <CALt0+o8aeJCav-uY-M_+xX0-34=jLkwOEk9wKUzPgqi2k8g7og@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

We just released Hibernate ORM 5.4.0.CR1, the first candidate release of
5.4.0.

5.4 is the direct continuation of 5.3 and we will encourage everyone to
upgrade to it to benefit from the latest fixes.

Thus thoroughly testing this release candidate is especially important.

It brings EntityGraph improvements, out of the box JDK 11 support, bug
fixes and other minor improvements.

More information in the announcement post:
http://in.relation.to/2018/11/15/hibernate-orm-540-cr1-out/ .

Feedback very welcome!

-- 
Guillaume

From sanne at hibernate.org  Thu Nov 15 11:32:11 2018
From: sanne at hibernate.org (Sanne Grinovero)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 16:32:11 +0000
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Hibernate ORM 5.4.0.CR1 released
In-Reply-To: <CALt0+o8aeJCav-uY-M_+xX0-34=jLkwOEk9wKUzPgqi2k8g7og@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALt0+o8aeJCav-uY-M_+xX0-34=jLkwOEk9wKUzPgqi2k8g7og@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFm4XO3PZCbgQDSYugmCaeEcxxBUKfQR7guSBHN9JnT87SbVFg@mail.gmail.com>

Awesome, congratulations all!
On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 at 15:30, Guillaume Smet
<guillaume.smet at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> We just released Hibernate ORM 5.4.0.CR1, the first candidate release of
> 5.4.0.
>
> 5.4 is the direct continuation of 5.3 and we will encourage everyone to
> upgrade to it to benefit from the latest fixes.
>
> Thus thoroughly testing this release candidate is especially important.
>
> It brings EntityGraph improvements, out of the box JDK 11 support, bug
> fixes and other minor improvements.
>
> More information in the announcement post:
> http://in.relation.to/2018/11/15/hibernate-orm-540-cr1-out/ .
>
> Feedback very welcome!
>
> --
> Guillaume
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

From yoann at hibernate.org  Fri Nov 16 02:16:23 2018
From: yoann at hibernate.org (Yoann Rodiere)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 08:16:23 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Moderation of in.relation.to
In-Reply-To: <CAFm4XO2gGo-UObSZ9f+CcV4XuY30=rPM_yH=cNddaOyS6Rg+Bg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFm4XO2gGo-UObSZ9f+CcV4XuY30=rPM_yH=cNddaOyS6Rg+Bg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqagpqVEf+NWxOHSuzbbgN-2AXfipSSdGU2qrK0cCJsgATdmw@mail.gmail.com>

Count me in. At least one person per project would be ideal, since these
notifications are the only way we can get notified of comments on our
posts...


Yoann Rodi?re
Hibernate NoORM Team
yoann at hibernate.org


On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 at 13:37, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org> wrote:

> Apparently I stopped receiving notifications from Discus about needing
> to approve a comment, and it looks like you all did?
>
> I just noticed as someome mentioned "while my other comment is not
> approved" and I thought "wait, what? I know nothing about other
> pending comments.." and didn't see any clue on the UI either.
>
> I eventually found the comments approval queue, and there were a dozen
> comments waiting; some >8 months old. Embarassing :(
>
> Let's make sure that at least some of us receive a timely
> notification. Any volunteers to register for this? I will register
> myself, hoping that some more of you will join on this.
>
> Thanks,
> Sanne
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>

From daltodavide at gmail.com  Fri Nov 16 08:26:19 2018
From: daltodavide at gmail.com (Davide D'Alto)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 13:26:19 +0000
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Moderation of in.relation.to
In-Reply-To: <CAEqagpqVEf+NWxOHSuzbbgN-2AXfipSSdGU2qrK0cCJsgATdmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFm4XO2gGo-UObSZ9f+CcV4XuY30=rPM_yH=cNddaOyS6Rg+Bg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpqVEf+NWxOHSuzbbgN-2AXfipSSdGU2qrK0cCJsgATdmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANoTJYMT0NaP++C4OxAnhJizzvaX9aL=8pRm1mpXcEM+wndyXA@mail.gmail.com>

I can join. What do I need to do to enable the notifications?
On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 7:16 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
> Count me in. At least one person per project would be ideal, since these
> notifications are the only way we can get notified of comments on our
> posts...
>
>
> Yoann Rodi?re
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yoann at hibernate.org
>
>
> On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 at 13:37, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
> > Apparently I stopped receiving notifications from Discus about needing
> > to approve a comment, and it looks like you all did?
> >
> > I just noticed as someome mentioned "while my other comment is not
> > approved" and I thought "wait, what? I know nothing about other
> > pending comments.." and didn't see any clue on the UI either.
> >
> > I eventually found the comments approval queue, and there were a dozen
> > comments waiting; some >8 months old. Embarassing :(
> >
> > Let's make sure that at least some of us receive a timely
> > notification. Any volunteers to register for this? I will register
> > myself, hoping that some more of you will join on this.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Sanne
> > _______________________________________________
> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev


From yoann at hibernate.org  Fri Nov 16 08:47:13 2018
From: yoann at hibernate.org (Yoann Rodiere)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 14:47:13 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Moderation of in.relation.to
In-Reply-To: <CANoTJYMT0NaP++C4OxAnhJizzvaX9aL=8pRm1mpXcEM+wndyXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFm4XO2gGo-UObSZ9f+CcV4XuY30=rPM_yH=cNddaOyS6Rg+Bg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpqVEf+NWxOHSuzbbgN-2AXfipSSdGU2qrK0cCJsgATdmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYMT0NaP++C4OxAnhJizzvaX9aL=8pRm1mpXcEM+wndyXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqagprr8Po9hDMJwRSbvcC-_e4aq71nW+BQWn2=nOawZ7CmiA@mail.gmail.com>

I think we need to be moderators, but I don't think I currently am. And
apparently I do not have access to the organization settings, where I
suppose we can define who is a moderator. (
https://disqus.com/admin/orgs/2655592/default/settings/general/ doesn't
work for me)

Sanne, maybe you can register us?

Thanks.

Yoann Rodi?re
Hibernate NoORM Team
yoann at hibernate.org


On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 at 14:26, Davide D'Alto <daltodavide at gmail.com> wrote:

> I can join. What do I need to do to enable the notifications?
> On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 7:16 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
> >
> > Count me in. At least one person per project would be ideal, since these
> > notifications are the only way we can get notified of comments on our
> > posts...
> >
> >
> > Yoann Rodi?re
> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > yoann at hibernate.org
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 at 13:37, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Apparently I stopped receiving notifications from Discus about needing
> > > to approve a comment, and it looks like you all did?
> > >
> > > I just noticed as someome mentioned "while my other comment is not
> > > approved" and I thought "wait, what? I know nothing about other
> > > pending comments.." and didn't see any clue on the UI either.
> > >
> > > I eventually found the comments approval queue, and there were a dozen
> > > comments waiting; some >8 months old. Embarassing :(
> > >
> > > Let's make sure that at least some of us receive a timely
> > > notification. Any volunteers to register for this? I will register
> > > myself, hoping that some more of you will join on this.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Sanne
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>

From daltodavide at gmail.com  Fri Nov 16 09:22:46 2018
From: daltodavide at gmail.com (Davide D'Alto)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 14:22:46 +0000
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Moderation of in.relation.to
In-Reply-To: <CAEqagprr8Po9hDMJwRSbvcC-_e4aq71nW+BQWn2=nOawZ7CmiA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFm4XO2gGo-UObSZ9f+CcV4XuY30=rPM_yH=cNddaOyS6Rg+Bg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpqVEf+NWxOHSuzbbgN-2AXfipSSdGU2qrK0cCJsgATdmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYMT0NaP++C4OxAnhJizzvaX9aL=8pRm1mpXcEM+wndyXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagprr8Po9hDMJwRSbvcC-_e4aq71nW+BQWn2=nOawZ7CmiA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANoTJYOUgWF-eyXZTm7FwXX+j3UA2K7r0qmCThFy+4HOrr50aw@mail.gmail.com>

I have the same issue.

On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 1:47 PM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
> I think we need to be moderators, but I don't think I currently am. And apparently I do not have access to the organization settings, where I suppose we can define who is a moderator. (https://disqus.com/admin/orgs/2655592/default/settings/general/ doesn't work for me)
>
> Sanne, maybe you can register us?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Yoann Rodi?re
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yoann at hibernate.org
>
>
> On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 at 14:26, Davide D'Alto <daltodavide at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I can join. What do I need to do to enable the notifications?
>> On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 7:16 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > Count me in. At least one person per project would be ideal, since these
>> > notifications are the only way we can get notified of comments on our
>> > posts...
>> >
>> >
>> > Yoann Rodi?re
>> > Hibernate NoORM Team
>> > yoann at hibernate.org
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 at 13:37, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Apparently I stopped receiving notifications from Discus about needing
>> > > to approve a comment, and it looks like you all did?
>> > >
>> > > I just noticed as someome mentioned "while my other comment is not
>> > > approved" and I thought "wait, what? I know nothing about other
>> > > pending comments.." and didn't see any clue on the UI either.
>> > >
>> > > I eventually found the comments approval queue, and there were a dozen
>> > > comments waiting; some >8 months old. Embarassing :(
>> > >
>> > > Let's make sure that at least some of us receive a timely
>> > > notification. Any volunteers to register for this? I will register
>> > > myself, hoping that some more of you will join on this.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > > Sanne
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev


From steve at hibernate.org  Fri Nov 16 09:37:05 2018
From: steve at hibernate.org (Steve Ebersole)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 08:37:05 -0600
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Moderation of in.relation.to
In-Reply-To: <CAEqagprr8Po9hDMJwRSbvcC-_e4aq71nW+BQWn2=nOawZ7CmiA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFm4XO2gGo-UObSZ9f+CcV4XuY30=rPM_yH=cNddaOyS6Rg+Bg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpqVEf+NWxOHSuzbbgN-2AXfipSSdGU2qrK0cCJsgATdmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYMT0NaP++C4OxAnhJizzvaX9aL=8pRm1mpXcEM+wndyXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagprr8Po9hDMJwRSbvcC-_e4aq71nW+BQWn2=nOawZ7CmiA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFdSV9srw52jBKOBC67VzBNaFCkfxqcBxAbqO=-co8cRobiWFg@mail.gmail.com>

There really is not a way to have Disqus notify you of replies?  That seems
like a very lacking feature




On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 7:47 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:

> I think we need to be moderators, but I don't think I currently am. And
> apparently I do not have access to the organization settings, where I
> suppose we can define who is a moderator. (
> https://disqus.com/admin/orgs/2655592/default/settings/general/ doesn't
> work for me)
>
> Sanne, maybe you can register us?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Yoann Rodi?re
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yoann at hibernate.org
>
>
> On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 at 14:26, Davide D'Alto <daltodavide at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I can join. What do I need to do to enable the notifications?
> > On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 7:16 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Count me in. At least one person per project would be ideal, since
> these
> > > notifications are the only way we can get notified of comments on our
> > > posts...
> > >
> > >
> > > Yoann Rodi?re
> > > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > > yoann at hibernate.org
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 at 13:37, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Apparently I stopped receiving notifications from Discus about
> needing
> > > > to approve a comment, and it looks like you all did?
> > > >
> > > > I just noticed as someome mentioned "while my other comment is not
> > > > approved" and I thought "wait, what? I know nothing about other
> > > > pending comments.." and didn't see any clue on the UI either.
> > > >
> > > > I eventually found the comments approval queue, and there were a
> dozen
> > > > comments waiting; some >8 months old. Embarassing :(
> > > >
> > > > Let's make sure that at least some of us receive a timely
> > > > notification. Any volunteers to register for this? I will register
> > > > myself, hoping that some more of you will join on this.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Sanne
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > > > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

From steve at hibernate.org  Fri Nov 16 09:56:32 2018
From: steve at hibernate.org (Steve Ebersole)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 08:56:32 -0600
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Moderation of in.relation.to
In-Reply-To: <CANoTJYOUgWF-eyXZTm7FwXX+j3UA2K7r0qmCThFy+4HOrr50aw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFm4XO2gGo-UObSZ9f+CcV4XuY30=rPM_yH=cNddaOyS6Rg+Bg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpqVEf+NWxOHSuzbbgN-2AXfipSSdGU2qrK0cCJsgATdmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYMT0NaP++C4OxAnhJizzvaX9aL=8pRm1mpXcEM+wndyXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagprr8Po9hDMJwRSbvcC-_e4aq71nW+BQWn2=nOawZ7CmiA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYOUgWF-eyXZTm7FwXX+j3UA2K7r0qmCThFy+4HOrr50aw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFdSV9se-V4MhzKRv0p0gPxakOgq7b20AsiwiBmdp+oxDpkuiQ@mail.gmail.com>

My disqus profile has the option enabled to send me notification emails.  I
guess the missing part is having disqus understand that a post is the
beginning of a discussion - it seems like I only get notified when someone
replies to my *comment*, not when they "reply" to the post itself.  I
wonder if that's a problem in our integration...

On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 8:41 AM Davide D'Alto <daltodavide at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have the same issue.
>
> On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 1:47 PM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
> >
> > I think we need to be moderators, but I don't think I currently am. And
> apparently I do not have access to the organization settings, where I
> suppose we can define who is a moderator. (
> https://disqus.com/admin/orgs/2655592/default/settings/general/ doesn't
> work for me)
> >
> > Sanne, maybe you can register us?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Yoann Rodi?re
> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > yoann at hibernate.org
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 at 14:26, Davide D'Alto <daltodavide at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I can join. What do I need to do to enable the notifications?
> >> On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 7:16 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Count me in. At least one person per project would be ideal, since
> these
> >> > notifications are the only way we can get notified of comments on our
> >> > posts...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Yoann Rodi?re
> >> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> >> > yoann at hibernate.org
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 at 13:37, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Apparently I stopped receiving notifications from Discus about
> needing
> >> > > to approve a comment, and it looks like you all did?
> >> > >
> >> > > I just noticed as someome mentioned "while my other comment is not
> >> > > approved" and I thought "wait, what? I know nothing about other
> >> > > pending comments.." and didn't see any clue on the UI either.
> >> > >
> >> > > I eventually found the comments approval queue, and there were a
> dozen
> >> > > comments waiting; some >8 months old. Embarassing :(
> >> > >
> >> > > Let's make sure that at least some of us receive a timely
> >> > > notification. Any volunteers to register for this? I will register
> >> > > myself, hoping that some more of you will join on this.
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks,
> >> > > Sanne
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> > > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> >> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >> > >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> >> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

From yoann at hibernate.org  Fri Nov 16 12:07:12 2018
From: yoann at hibernate.org (Yoann Rodiere)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 18:07:12 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] CI - Default Maven settings
Message-ID: <CAEqagpro4cWT-=MuvcMx1NmrqT1Rp0XqK6bcnTuvJ3TAQqJcEA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

Because of recurring issues, I will remove the default Maven settings that
include the JBoss Nexus coordinates from our CI.

Be prepared for build failures on Maven projects (I don't think Gradle
projects will be impacted), and please let me know if you can't solve them.

Generally a failing build can easily be fixed by adding "-s
settings-example.xml" to the Maven arguments, where "settings-example.xml"
is a file in your git repository that should be there for new contributors'
sake anyway.

There are also ways to get rid of the custom settings completely for
non-release builds, but that will require one or two days worth of work,
due to all the places in our builds relying on these settings (Karaf,
Wildfly, ...). If you are interested, just ping me and I can explain what
we did on Search.

As to why:

The idea is that anyone checking out our projects should be able to run
`mvn clean install` and it should "just work"; to check that, our CI builds
should be as similar as possible to a random contributor's environment,
i.e. it should be as little customized as possible.

With that in mind, having custom Maven settings applied by default to all
projects does not make much sense to me, and even seems harmful. In my case
it's harmful because I expected all the necessary configuration, including
the URL of the JBoss Nexus, to be included in Search's POM files, and I
expected the build to fail if anything was missing, allowing me to see that
Search is not contributor-friendly and should be fixed. As it turns out,
because of our CI, it was not the case.

Yoann Rodi?re
Hibernate NoORM Team
yoann at hibernate.org

From sanne at hibernate.org  Fri Nov 16 13:30:13 2018
From: sanne at hibernate.org (Sanne Grinovero)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 18:30:13 +0000
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Moderation of in.relation.to
In-Reply-To: <CAEqagprr8Po9hDMJwRSbvcC-_e4aq71nW+BQWn2=nOawZ7CmiA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFm4XO2gGo-UObSZ9f+CcV4XuY30=rPM_yH=cNddaOyS6Rg+Bg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpqVEf+NWxOHSuzbbgN-2AXfipSSdGU2qrK0cCJsgATdmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYMT0NaP++C4OxAnhJizzvaX9aL=8pRm1mpXcEM+wndyXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagprr8Po9hDMJwRSbvcC-_e4aq71nW+BQWn2=nOawZ7CmiA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFm4XO2K+7A3k_-B1oLqJXjjvWjZ+YEJAg2v8USuOhq+-z68zA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 at 13:47, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
> I think we need to be moderators, but I don't think I currently am. And apparently I do not have access to the organization settings, where I suppose we can define who is a moderator. (https://disqus.com/admin/orgs/2655592/default/settings/general/ doesn't work for me)
>
> Sanne, maybe you can register us?

You're all registered as moderators already, except Fabio, Andrea and
Koen who don't seem to have an account (please register if at all
interested?).  You also all have the admin password, it's in the usual
wiki page ;)

But I can't find other options either. I remember occasionally
receiving a moderator email request, I just don't seem to receive them
consistently?


>
> Thanks.
>
> Yoann Rodi?re
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yoann at hibernate.org
>
>
> On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 at 14:26, Davide D'Alto <daltodavide at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I can join. What do I need to do to enable the notifications?
>> On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 7:16 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > Count me in. At least one person per project would be ideal, since these
>> > notifications are the only way we can get notified of comments on our
>> > posts...
>> >
>> >
>> > Yoann Rodi?re
>> > Hibernate NoORM Team
>> > yoann at hibernate.org
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 at 13:37, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Apparently I stopped receiving notifications from Discus about needing
>> > > to approve a comment, and it looks like you all did?
>> > >
>> > > I just noticed as someome mentioned "while my other comment is not
>> > > approved" and I thought "wait, what? I know nothing about other
>> > > pending comments.." and didn't see any clue on the UI either.
>> > >
>> > > I eventually found the comments approval queue, and there were a dozen
>> > > comments waiting; some >8 months old. Embarassing :(
>> > >
>> > > Let's make sure that at least some of us receive a timely
>> > > notification. Any volunteers to register for this? I will register
>> > > myself, hoping that some more of you will join on this.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > > Sanne
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev


From guillaume.smet at gmail.com  Fri Nov 16 13:30:43 2018
From: guillaume.smet at gmail.com (Guillaume Smet)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 19:30:43 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Hibernate 5.2.18
Message-ID: <CALt0+o_4uQsbkaZ3yuyktr6ANpc=oLcddHZVX+RSU1Fce2gw8w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I started the release process but our Nexus' Lucene indexes are apparently
broken.

Can't close the repository and release it.

Will follow up next week.

-- 
Guillaume

From guillaume.smet at gmail.com  Fri Nov 16 13:53:29 2018
From: guillaume.smet at gmail.com (Guillaume Smet)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 19:53:29 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Moderation of in.relation.to
In-Reply-To: <CAFm4XO2K+7A3k_-B1oLqJXjjvWjZ+YEJAg2v8USuOhq+-z68zA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFm4XO2gGo-UObSZ9f+CcV4XuY30=rPM_yH=cNddaOyS6Rg+Bg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpqVEf+NWxOHSuzbbgN-2AXfipSSdGU2qrK0cCJsgATdmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYMT0NaP++C4OxAnhJizzvaX9aL=8pRm1mpXcEM+wndyXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagprr8Po9hDMJwRSbvcC-_e4aq71nW+BQWn2=nOawZ7CmiA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO2K+7A3k_-B1oLqJXjjvWjZ+YEJAg2v8USuOhq+-z68zA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALt0+o90JcBfaiuqPZddK0wuXE+puAsiO2-UM+B+3nu6vXO-Cg@mail.gmail.com>

I, for one, don't receive any email from disqus when there is a new comment.

On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 7:42 PM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org> wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 at 13:47, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
> >
> > I think we need to be moderators, but I don't think I currently am. And
> apparently I do not have access to the organization settings, where I
> suppose we can define who is a moderator. (
> https://disqus.com/admin/orgs/2655592/default/settings/general/ doesn't
> work for me)
> >
> > Sanne, maybe you can register us?
>
> You're all registered as moderators already, except Fabio, Andrea and
> Koen who don't seem to have an account (please register if at all
> interested?).  You also all have the admin password, it's in the usual
> wiki page ;)
>
> But I can't find other options either. I remember occasionally
> receiving a moderator email request, I just don't seem to receive them
> consistently?
>
>
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Yoann Rodi?re
> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > yoann at hibernate.org
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 at 14:26, Davide D'Alto <daltodavide at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I can join. What do I need to do to enable the notifications?
> >> On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 7:16 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Count me in. At least one person per project would be ideal, since
> these
> >> > notifications are the only way we can get notified of comments on our
> >> > posts...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Yoann Rodi?re
> >> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> >> > yoann at hibernate.org
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 at 13:37, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Apparently I stopped receiving notifications from Discus about
> needing
> >> > > to approve a comment, and it looks like you all did?
> >> > >
> >> > > I just noticed as someome mentioned "while my other comment is not
> >> > > approved" and I thought "wait, what? I know nothing about other
> >> > > pending comments.." and didn't see any clue on the UI either.
> >> > >
> >> > > I eventually found the comments approval queue, and there were a
> dozen
> >> > > comments waiting; some >8 months old. Embarassing :(
> >> > >
> >> > > Let's make sure that at least some of us receive a timely
> >> > > notification. Any volunteers to register for this? I will register
> >> > > myself, hoping that some more of you will join on this.
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks,
> >> > > Sanne
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> > > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> >> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >> > >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> >> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

From davide at hibernate.org  Sat Nov 17 06:37:28 2018
From: davide at hibernate.org (Davide D'Alto)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 11:37:28 +0000
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Moderation of in.relation.to
In-Reply-To: <CALt0+o90JcBfaiuqPZddK0wuXE+puAsiO2-UM+B+3nu6vXO-Cg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFm4XO2gGo-UObSZ9f+CcV4XuY30=rPM_yH=cNddaOyS6Rg+Bg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpqVEf+NWxOHSuzbbgN-2AXfipSSdGU2qrK0cCJsgATdmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYMT0NaP++C4OxAnhJizzvaX9aL=8pRm1mpXcEM+wndyXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagprr8Po9hDMJwRSbvcC-_e4aq71nW+BQWn2=nOawZ7CmiA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO2K+7A3k_-B1oLqJXjjvWjZ+YEJAg2v8USuOhq+-z68zA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o90JcBfaiuqPZddK0wuXE+puAsiO2-UM+B+3nu6vXO-Cg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANoTJYNkCfnYYTOa6N9n1a_S=+Vx1FpPNF0kPX3UCe=0U48w=Q@mail.gmail.com>

To clarify, I get notified when there are new comments.
But I haven't seen a request about enabling users comments in a while.

On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 7:24 PM Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I, for one, don't receive any email from disqus when there is a new comment.
>
> On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 7:42 PM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 at 13:47, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > I think we need to be moderators, but I don't think I currently am. And
> > apparently I do not have access to the organization settings, where I
> > suppose we can define who is a moderator. (
> > https://disqus.com/admin/orgs/2655592/default/settings/general/ doesn't
> > work for me)
> > >
> > > Sanne, maybe you can register us?
> >
> > You're all registered as moderators already, except Fabio, Andrea and
> > Koen who don't seem to have an account (please register if at all
> > interested?).  You also all have the admin password, it's in the usual
> > wiki page ;)
> >
> > But I can't find other options either. I remember occasionally
> > receiving a moderator email request, I just don't seem to receive them
> > consistently?
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > Yoann Rodi?re
> > > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > > yoann at hibernate.org
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 at 14:26, Davide D'Alto <daltodavide at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I can join. What do I need to do to enable the notifications?
> > >> On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 7:16 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > Count me in. At least one person per project would be ideal, since
> > these
> > >> > notifications are the only way we can get notified of comments on our
> > >> > posts...
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Yoann Rodi?re
> > >> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > >> > yoann at hibernate.org
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 at 13:37, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Apparently I stopped receiving notifications from Discus about
> > needing
> > >> > > to approve a comment, and it looks like you all did?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I just noticed as someome mentioned "while my other comment is not
> > >> > > approved" and I thought "wait, what? I know nothing about other
> > >> > > pending comments.." and didn't see any clue on the UI either.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I eventually found the comments approval queue, and there were a
> > dozen
> > >> > > comments waiting; some >8 months old. Embarassing :(
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Let's make sure that at least some of us receive a timely
> > >> > > notification. Any volunteers to register for this? I will register
> > >> > > myself, hoping that some more of you will join on this.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Thanks,
> > >> > > Sanne
> > >> > > _______________________________________________
> > >> > > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > >> > > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > >> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> > >> > >
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > >> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > >> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev


From yoann at hibernate.org  Mon Nov 19 03:04:11 2018
From: yoann at hibernate.org (Yoann Rodiere)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 09:04:11 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Moderation of in.relation.to
In-Reply-To: <CANoTJYNkCfnYYTOa6N9n1a_S=+Vx1FpPNF0kPX3UCe=0U48w=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFm4XO2gGo-UObSZ9f+CcV4XuY30=rPM_yH=cNddaOyS6Rg+Bg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpqVEf+NWxOHSuzbbgN-2AXfipSSdGU2qrK0cCJsgATdmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYMT0NaP++C4OxAnhJizzvaX9aL=8pRm1mpXcEM+wndyXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagprr8Po9hDMJwRSbvcC-_e4aq71nW+BQWn2=nOawZ7CmiA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO2K+7A3k_-B1oLqJXjjvWjZ+YEJAg2v8USuOhq+-z68zA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o90JcBfaiuqPZddK0wuXE+puAsiO2-UM+B+3nu6vXO-Cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYNkCfnYYTOa6N9n1a_S=+Vx1FpPNF0kPX3UCe=0U48w=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqagppq4moH_Ntv3Z+L9p8HPeFMy9Bpm7fnn--S0dRvkNpEKQ@mail.gmail.com>

> To clarify, I get notified when there are new comments.

You mean answers to your own comments, right? As Steve mentioned, Disqus
doesn't seem to send notifications for "root" comments.

I just noticed the disqus integration seems to be done with a "crawler" on
our end. If that "crawler" is faulty and doesn't indicate to disqus the
proper author for each thread, that might explain the problems we have. I'm
having a look.


Yoann Rodi?re
Hibernate NoORM Team
yoann at hibernate.org


On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 at 12:53, Davide D'Alto <davide at hibernate.org> wrote:

> To clarify, I get notified when there are new comments.
> But I haven't seen a request about enabling users comments in a while.
>
> On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 7:24 PM Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I, for one, don't receive any email from disqus when there is a new
> comment.
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 7:42 PM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 at 13:47, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I think we need to be moderators, but I don't think I currently am.
> And
> > > apparently I do not have access to the organization settings, where I
> > > suppose we can define who is a moderator. (
> > > https://disqus.com/admin/orgs/2655592/default/settings/general/
> doesn't
> > > work for me)
> > > >
> > > > Sanne, maybe you can register us?
> > >
> > > You're all registered as moderators already, except Fabio, Andrea and
> > > Koen who don't seem to have an account (please register if at all
> > > interested?).  You also all have the admin password, it's in the usual
> > > wiki page ;)
> > >
> > > But I can't find other options either. I remember occasionally
> > > receiving a moderator email request, I just don't seem to receive them
> > > consistently?
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > Yoann Rodi?re
> > > > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > > > yoann at hibernate.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 at 14:26, Davide D'Alto <daltodavide at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> I can join. What do I need to do to enable the notifications?
> > > >> On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 7:16 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Count me in. At least one person per project would be ideal, since
> > > these
> > > >> > notifications are the only way we can get notified of comments on
> our
> > > >> > posts...
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Yoann Rodi?re
> > > >> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > > >> > yoann at hibernate.org
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 at 13:37, Sanne Grinovero <
> sanne at hibernate.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > > Apparently I stopped receiving notifications from Discus about
> > > needing
> > > >> > > to approve a comment, and it looks like you all did?
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > I just noticed as someome mentioned "while my other comment is
> not
> > > >> > > approved" and I thought "wait, what? I know nothing about other
> > > >> > > pending comments.." and didn't see any clue on the UI either.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > I eventually found the comments approval queue, and there were a
> > > dozen
> > > >> > > comments waiting; some >8 months old. Embarassing :(
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Let's make sure that at least some of us receive a timely
> > > >> > > notification. Any volunteers to register for this? I will
> register
> > > >> > > myself, hoping that some more of you will join on this.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Thanks,
> > > >> > > Sanne
> > > >> > > _______________________________________________
> > > >> > > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > > >> > > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > > >> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > _______________________________________________
> > > >> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > > >> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > > >> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> > _______________________________________________
> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

From yoann at hibernate.org  Mon Nov 19 03:27:39 2018
From: yoann at hibernate.org (Yoann Rodiere)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 09:27:39 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Moderation of in.relation.to
In-Reply-To: <CAEqagppq4moH_Ntv3Z+L9p8HPeFMy9Bpm7fnn--S0dRvkNpEKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFm4XO2gGo-UObSZ9f+CcV4XuY30=rPM_yH=cNddaOyS6Rg+Bg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpqVEf+NWxOHSuzbbgN-2AXfipSSdGU2qrK0cCJsgATdmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYMT0NaP++C4OxAnhJizzvaX9aL=8pRm1mpXcEM+wndyXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagprr8Po9hDMJwRSbvcC-_e4aq71nW+BQWn2=nOawZ7CmiA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO2K+7A3k_-B1oLqJXjjvWjZ+YEJAg2v8USuOhq+-z68zA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o90JcBfaiuqPZddK0wuXE+puAsiO2-UM+B+3nu6vXO-Cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYNkCfnYYTOa6N9n1a_S=+Vx1FpPNF0kPX3UCe=0U48w=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagppq4moH_Ntv3Z+L9p8HPeFMy9Bpm7fnn--S0dRvkNpEKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqagpqtLO=PtSbCmLDHh4wRHbKUB5H6dk7bDfCwYqqzikvOMQ@mail.gmail.com>

> I just noticed the disqus integration seems to be done with a "crawler"
on our end. If that "crawler" is faulty and doesn't indicate to disqus the
proper author for each thread, that might explain the problems we have. I'm
having a look.

Nope, the Disqus integration is apparently completely client-side. The
crawler I saw was apparently used a while ago to migrate the blog from a
previous technology, while keeping the Disqus data.

Therre might be a solution, but that would involve us making disqus API
calls to set the author of each thread:
https://stackoverflow.com/a/19597108/6692043
Note sure it would work, but it might. It's not obvious how we would do
that, though: we'd have to somehow detect "new" posts... Maybe we should do
a few calls for the posts with a date more recent than 2 weeks ago,
something like that?

Anyway... No time for that today.

Yoann Rodi?re
Hibernate NoORM Team
yoann at hibernate.org


On Mon, 19 Nov 2018 at 09:04, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:

> > To clarify, I get notified when there are new comments.
>
> You mean answers to your own comments, right? As Steve mentioned, Disqus
> doesn't seem to send notifications for "root" comments.
>
> I just noticed the disqus integration seems to be done with a "crawler" on
> our end. If that "crawler" is faulty and doesn't indicate to disqus the
> proper author for each thread, that might explain the problems we have. I'm
> having a look.
>
>
> Yoann Rodi?re
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yoann at hibernate.org
>
>
> On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 at 12:53, Davide D'Alto <davide at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
>> To clarify, I get notified when there are new comments.
>> But I haven't seen a request about enabling users comments in a while.
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 7:24 PM Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I, for one, don't receive any email from disqus when there is a new
>> comment.
>> >
>> > On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 7:42 PM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 at 13:47, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
>> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > I think we need to be moderators, but I don't think I currently am.
>> And
>> > > apparently I do not have access to the organization settings, where I
>> > > suppose we can define who is a moderator. (
>> > > https://disqus.com/admin/orgs/2655592/default/settings/general/
>> doesn't
>> > > work for me)
>> > > >
>> > > > Sanne, maybe you can register us?
>> > >
>> > > You're all registered as moderators already, except Fabio, Andrea and
>> > > Koen who don't seem to have an account (please register if at all
>> > > interested?).  You also all have the admin password, it's in the usual
>> > > wiki page ;)
>> > >
>> > > But I can't find other options either. I remember occasionally
>> > > receiving a moderator email request, I just don't seem to receive them
>> > > consistently?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Thanks.
>> > > >
>> > > > Yoann Rodi?re
>> > > > Hibernate NoORM Team
>> > > > yoann at hibernate.org
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 at 14:26, Davide D'Alto <daltodavide at gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >> I can join. What do I need to do to enable the notifications?
>> > > >> On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 7:16 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org
>> >
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > Count me in. At least one person per project would be ideal,
>> since
>> > > these
>> > > >> > notifications are the only way we can get notified of comments
>> on our
>> > > >> > posts...
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > Yoann Rodi?re
>> > > >> > Hibernate NoORM Team
>> > > >> > yoann at hibernate.org
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 at 13:37, Sanne Grinovero <
>> sanne at hibernate.org>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > > Apparently I stopped receiving notifications from Discus about
>> > > needing
>> > > >> > > to approve a comment, and it looks like you all did?
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > I just noticed as someome mentioned "while my other comment is
>> not
>> > > >> > > approved" and I thought "wait, what? I know nothing about other
>> > > >> > > pending comments.." and didn't see any clue on the UI either.
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > I eventually found the comments approval queue, and there were
>> a
>> > > dozen
>> > > >> > > comments waiting; some >8 months old. Embarassing :(
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > Let's make sure that at least some of us receive a timely
>> > > >> > > notification. Any volunteers to register for this? I will
>> register
>> > > >> > > myself, hoping that some more of you will join on this.
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > Thanks,
>> > > >> > > Sanne
>> > > >> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > >> > > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > > >> > > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> > > >> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > _______________________________________________
>> > > >> > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > > >> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> > > >> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>
>

From davide at hibernate.org  Mon Nov 19 05:44:49 2018
From: davide at hibernate.org (Davide D'Alto)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 10:44:49 +0000
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Moderation of in.relation.to
In-Reply-To: <CAEqagppq4moH_Ntv3Z+L9p8HPeFMy9Bpm7fnn--S0dRvkNpEKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFm4XO2gGo-UObSZ9f+CcV4XuY30=rPM_yH=cNddaOyS6Rg+Bg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpqVEf+NWxOHSuzbbgN-2AXfipSSdGU2qrK0cCJsgATdmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYMT0NaP++C4OxAnhJizzvaX9aL=8pRm1mpXcEM+wndyXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagprr8Po9hDMJwRSbvcC-_e4aq71nW+BQWn2=nOawZ7CmiA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO2K+7A3k_-B1oLqJXjjvWjZ+YEJAg2v8USuOhq+-z68zA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o90JcBfaiuqPZddK0wuXE+puAsiO2-UM+B+3nu6vXO-Cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYNkCfnYYTOa6N9n1a_S=+Vx1FpPNF0kPX3UCe=0U48w=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagppq4moH_Ntv3Z+L9p8HPeFMy9Bpm7fnn--S0dRvkNpEKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANoTJYPCnzDg0jiOucv3ipyShHs54bf14MFB7JaO+jN3OjPvOQ@mail.gmail.com>

> You mean answers to your own comments, right?

Not really, quite often I receive notification of somebody comment on a post.
But I will double check,maybe I don't remember correctly
On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 8:04 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
> > To clarify, I get notified when there are new comments.
>
> You mean answers to your own comments, right? As Steve mentioned, Disqus doesn't seem to send notifications for "root" comments.
>
> I just noticed the disqus integration seems to be done with a "crawler" on our end. If that "crawler" is faulty and doesn't indicate to disqus the proper author for each thread, that might explain the problems we have. I'm having a look.
>
>
> Yoann Rodi?re
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yoann at hibernate.org
>
>
> On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 at 12:53, Davide D'Alto <davide at hibernate.org> wrote:
>>
>> To clarify, I get notified when there are new comments.
>> But I haven't seen a request about enabling users comments in a while.
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 7:24 PM Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > I, for one, don't receive any email from disqus when there is a new comment.
>> >
>> > On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 7:42 PM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 at 13:47, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > I think we need to be moderators, but I don't think I currently am. And
>> > > apparently I do not have access to the organization settings, where I
>> > > suppose we can define who is a moderator. (
>> > > https://disqus.com/admin/orgs/2655592/default/settings/general/ doesn't
>> > > work for me)
>> > > >
>> > > > Sanne, maybe you can register us?
>> > >
>> > > You're all registered as moderators already, except Fabio, Andrea and
>> > > Koen who don't seem to have an account (please register if at all
>> > > interested?).  You also all have the admin password, it's in the usual
>> > > wiki page ;)
>> > >
>> > > But I can't find other options either. I remember occasionally
>> > > receiving a moderator email request, I just don't seem to receive them
>> > > consistently?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Thanks.
>> > > >
>> > > > Yoann Rodi?re
>> > > > Hibernate NoORM Team
>> > > > yoann at hibernate.org
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 at 14:26, Davide D'Alto <daltodavide at gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >> I can join. What do I need to do to enable the notifications?
>> > > >> On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 7:16 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > Count me in. At least one person per project would be ideal, since
>> > > these
>> > > >> > notifications are the only way we can get notified of comments on our
>> > > >> > posts...
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > Yoann Rodi?re
>> > > >> > Hibernate NoORM Team
>> > > >> > yoann at hibernate.org
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 at 13:37, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > > Apparently I stopped receiving notifications from Discus about
>> > > needing
>> > > >> > > to approve a comment, and it looks like you all did?
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > I just noticed as someome mentioned "while my other comment is not
>> > > >> > > approved" and I thought "wait, what? I know nothing about other
>> > > >> > > pending comments.." and didn't see any clue on the UI either.
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > I eventually found the comments approval queue, and there were a
>> > > dozen
>> > > >> > > comments waiting; some >8 months old. Embarassing :(
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > Let's make sure that at least some of us receive a timely
>> > > >> > > notification. Any volunteers to register for this? I will register
>> > > >> > > myself, hoping that some more of you will join on this.
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > Thanks,
>> > > >> > > Sanne
>> > > >> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > >> > > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > > >> > > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> > > >> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > _______________________________________________
>> > > >> > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > > >> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> > > >> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev


From guillaume.smet at gmail.com  Tue Nov 20 09:26:34 2018
From: guillaume.smet at gmail.com (Guillaume Smet)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 15:26:34 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] NoORM IRC meeting minutes
Message-ID: <CALt0+o986Xt5Q8MPY6JHA5xAgarH8hVk0hFb8hq0bJv5BSPwmA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Here are the minutes of this week's NoORM IRC meeting:

15:25 < jbott> Meeting ended Tue Nov 20 14:25:27 2018 UTC.  Information
about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
15:25 < jbott> Minutes:
http://transcripts.jboss.org/meeting/irc.freenode.org/hibernate-dev/2018/hibernate-dev.2018-11-20-14.00.html
15:25 < jbott> Minutes (text):
http://transcripts.jboss.org/meeting/irc.freenode.org/hibernate-dev/2018/hibernate-dev.2018-11-20-14.00.txt
15:25 < jbott> Log:
http://transcripts.jboss.org/meeting/irc.freenode.org/hibernate-dev/2018/hibernate-dev.2018-11-20-14.00.log.html

Have a nice day!

-- 
Guillaume

From sanne at hibernate.org  Tue Nov 20 12:23:47 2018
From: sanne at hibernate.org (Sanne Grinovero)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 17:23:47 +0000
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Reconfiguration of bounce processing on this
	mailing list
Message-ID: <CAFm4XO1_TGupZrGWegpnmMj6Tti3duXcgBeq_hECfhtdAt8k-A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I reconfigured some details of Mailman regarding this list, following
advice from Red Hat sysadmins. This is unlikely to solve the problems
but should help us get some diagnostic data which is sadly missing at
this moment.

Please do not make any change, or reach out to me in case of such need.

Thanks,
Sanne

From yoann at hibernate.org  Wed Nov 21 08:40:13 2018
From: yoann at hibernate.org (Yoann Rodiere)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2018 14:40:13 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Chat migration - D minus 115 until the death of
	HipChat
In-Reply-To: <CAEqagpr7fDA1-3VfJCGvk7EYyUOiHBvP7iw8arZE-5JV94W3RQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEqagpqit=rUeNA+ZagM0NYA2rPhxXspqRDRQuNq-UqmMnLppg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO31HS2KN5v2rGYjcDf23+2+NC_97oKn2_RLK-HPC5usGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9s4UFG4JyPp=k+0pMyY8K-Es4TyOr9-CEHzGH2U4bT33Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpo83hCQqcFV5vgxEPSJH8wDLNVwyPmjiBoqB2NmRDFzkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpojJR4Xa0jGYjPcF1y7qaHjikbuYNAA2=-meGpJjPg99w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpp=NU0HLDeNh3U4gfe3J4Bf56gswnimzeTo4f994goobQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o_8LaHD9aHyojeSr1nf_rebYEO=mhG0G9CRpEbNpdPohg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO0+-jL91HK9v_+LEAVcE6ajGx9BL53R2pXMh2WPSrKQxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALt0+o-FLidU_m6SrGV5Zu+ASdK62qKHT7_kmJo0bj3nMB_XeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tssPTqEy0Zo72SH-8iEQwZ5UXMgzk7fEC1joMUPivsVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO09eOrgqHAK5SN5k6CW+hjhX=-9=jdJzHYCj==i5Ys9Vw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpp75dM1GV+WpLuRND7wezkpp36fmNt5CfrVst7HW1QMsg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO0mW0H6qCNBisN5pBC0=hjqLdCPjCM0yC8pde9g1-bydw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9vZpeHoNE5MMHxUJb8QA7eH2gTQMYLywUKbDOKKvJvREQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpp6P9ZS_wnDvEPTj_VLLQSeviB7sr5vVTGmTg3nkztRKA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpr7fDA1-3VfJCGvk7EYyUOiHBvP7iw8arZE-5JV94W3RQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqagprSMSjPLf611q1kzH6En8B3EuWP08oeEz9obuxRJwQUnw@mail.gmail.com>

On top of not being able to add more than 25 people to a private room,
there's another limitation of Gitter that Fabio just noticed: the chat
history for 1-to-1 conversations is very limited. In our case, we can only
see 2 days back, and there's no concept of archives like there is in rooms.

Meanwhile, the WildFly team is giving up on Slack because of the very
limited size of history in free plans. They are investigating Zulip,
RocketChat and MatterMost in particular. Maybe let's see what they end up
choosing and why?

Yoann Rodi?re
Hibernate NoORM Team
yoann at hibernate.org


On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 at 11:33, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:

> On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 at 08:49, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
>> > Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it might be
>> too successful as well
>>
>> Ok. Well, I guess we'll see. As I mentioned above, I don't think forcing
>> people to have a GitHub account will be very effective, but I can't suggest
>> a perfect solution either. Bots answering with a few links (documentation,
>> etc.) to the first message of each user come to mind, but that could be
>> considered rude, so I wouldn't do that unless the traffic becomes
>> unmanageable. Other solutions include kicking out "spammers" (but that
>> doesn't work if it's many users asking a single question), or making the
>> -dev rooms invite-only and only checking the user rooms once in a while
>> (might work if Gitter sends emails when your are mentioned while offline).
>> So, yeah, in short: I don't really know.
>>
>> > More just accountability.  But if some form of login in needed to use
>> Gitter, that's enough for me.  Sounded like the other option was "allow
>> anonymous", which I wanted to avoid.
>>
>> Then it should be fine: anonymous access apparently only allows to read
>> messages. Login through GitLab, GitHub or Twitter is necessary in order to
>> start posting new messages.
>>
>> Yoann Rodi?re
>> Hibernate NoORM Team
>> yoann at hibernate.org
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 19:34, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:
>>
>>> For me its not so much about "the right kind of people".  More just
>>> accountability.  But if some form of login in needed to use Gitter, that's
>>> enough for me.  Sounded like the other option was "allow anonymous", which
>>> I wanted to avoid.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:41 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 17:27, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > I don't see why we should force people to have a GitHub account,
>>>> considering there are other means of logging into Gitter.
>>>>
>>>> Ok.
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > As to getting the right type of people, I'm not sure it's relevant.
>>>> Most people are likely to have one, and those who don't are likely to not
>>>> have one for political reasons (think free software extremists) rather than
>>>> because they aren't tech savvy enough: while the "hibernate" naming might
>>>> confuse users looking for information about grizzly bears, I doubt my
>>>> grandmother, my 7-year-old nephew or even my non-software-engineer of a
>>>> wife would end up on Gitter by mistake.
>>>>
>>>> Well since that's obvious, clearly I was referring to a different way
>>>> of cathegorizing people joining@ not by age or expertise in technology
>>>> but in having reasonable expectations and willing to do some research
>>>> before bothering us all.
>>>>
>>>> You probably weren't around yet, but Hibernate has had hard times in
>>>> which it was "victim of its own success": just too many
>>>> kinda-interested people making a ton of basic questions that could be
>>>> easily solved otherwise.
>>>>
>>>> Some "barriers" we have in place have made it manageable; of course I
>>>> can't tell if it's all merit of the barriers of entry or just people
>>>> coming in lower volumes with better intentions, but I'm confident that
>>>> some of the barriers we have have helped to keep some sanity (e.g.
>>>> login on #hibernate-dev on IRC requiring an account).
>>>>
>>>> Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it might be
>>>> too successful as well.  But I guess we'll see, or let's use a very
>>>> bad chat platform so to keep people from coming :P
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Yoann Rodi?re
>>>> > Hibernate NoORM Team
>>>> > yoann at hibernate.org
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 18:02, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 16:02, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > What is it a conscious decision to not require a GitHub account to
>>>> join these rooms?  I just noticed that is a toggle-option in the room's
>>>> settings also.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I don't remember. We created these rooms as an experiment in 2014..
>>>> >> Yoann created some more rooms recently.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Should we enforce people to have a Github account? I'd like that, I
>>>> >> think it would better nudge towards getting the right type of people
>>>> >> to join.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thanks,
>>>> >> Sanne
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 6:17 AM Guillaume Smet <
>>>> guillaume.smet at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:35 AM Sanne Grinovero <
>>>> sanne at hibernate.org>
>>>> >> >> wrote:
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> > If one wants a lot of features then clearly only Slack is the
>>>> way to
>>>> >> >> > go. Not saying we should go with Slack, just that we'll need to
>>>> be
>>>> >> >> > patient and we'll always be short of some features - if that's
>>>> not
>>>> >> >> > acceptable then only Slack will make you happy.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> TBH, I don't care about fancy features. Gitter is OK for me but
>>>> yeah not
>>>> >> >> having sound is really annoying.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> I might miss notifications from time to time.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> In any case, it will mostly be a problem for you all if you ping
>>>> me :).
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> > BTW the issue you linked to suggests the native clients don't
>>>> have
>>>> >> >> > this specific problem.. might want to try that?
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> I prefer to have it in the browser where I do most of my
>>>> interactions with
>>>> >> >> people.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> And AFAIK, Yoann wrote they were only packaged as deb (and not
>>>> very excited
>>>> >> >> about compiling it).
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> BTW, tbh, I'm a bit worried GitLab has only one dev on it if they
>>>> want to
>>>> >> >> become a player in this area. They certainly have some work to do
>>>> to catch
>>>> >> >> up with others.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> --
>>>> >> >> Guillaume
>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
>>>> >> >> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>>> >> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
>>>> >> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>>> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>>>
>>>

From yoann at hibernate.org  Thu Nov 22 04:16:24 2018
From: yoann at hibernate.org (Yoann Rodiere)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2018 10:16:24 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Hibernate Search 5.10.5.Final released
Message-ID: <CAEqagprk9pVGxGZt6=QrvzT6EfgESH7CEqiNP05Nv7N1n4AmuQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

We just published maintenance releases for the 5.10 branch of Hibernate
Search. This release upgrades Hibernate Search to the latest compatible
Hibernate ORM version (5.3.7.Final) and fixes an issue with multi-valued
boolean fields in the Elasticsearch integration.

Find more detailed information on our blog:
http://in.relation.to/2018/11/22/hibernate-search-5-10-5-Final

Yoann Rodi?re
Hibernate NoORM Team
yoann at hibernate.org

From steve at hibernate.org  Mon Nov 26 14:01:51 2018
From: steve at hibernate.org (Steve Ebersole)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2018 13:01:51 -0600
Subject: [hibernate-dev] ORM 6 branch
Message-ID: <CAFdSV9t=m7-Fyzr4VG6W4ykpo9o7iYkjUc3-1WU8vhuTh9V-pw@mail.gmail.com>

This Wednesday we plan to release 6.0 Alpha1 and I thought it best to start
discussing how to best handle the 6.0 and master branches.

I think we should keep 6.0 a little while longer in my fork and 5.4 as
master until 6.0 becomes more stabilized to make it easier for 5.4
maintenance.  And reconsider as we approach Beta1.

But this affects everyone, so wanted to see what others thought...

From gbadner at redhat.com  Mon Nov 26 17:17:05 2018
From: gbadner at redhat.com (Gail Badner)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2018 14:17:05 -0800
Subject: [hibernate-dev] ORM 6 branch
In-Reply-To: <CAFdSV9t=m7-Fyzr4VG6W4ykpo9o7iYkjUc3-1WU8vhuTh9V-pw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFdSV9t=m7-Fyzr4VG6W4ykpo9o7iYkjUc3-1WU8vhuTh9V-pw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFDzhiSEU8ePYi24pLz8o5HnZboPVcyck0RsHi__ycW-wm9KQA@mail.gmail.com>

That's fine with me.

On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 11:29 AM Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:

> This Wednesday we plan to release 6.0 Alpha1 and I thought it best to start
> discussing how to best handle the 6.0 and master branches.
>
> I think we should keep 6.0 a little while longer in my fork and 5.4 as
> master until 6.0 becomes more stabilized to make it easier for 5.4
> maintenance.  And reconsider as we approach Beta1.
>
> But this affects everyone, so wanted to see what others thought...
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>

From sanne at hibernate.org  Mon Nov 26 18:14:41 2018
From: sanne at hibernate.org (Sanne Grinovero)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 00:14:41 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] ORM 6 branch
In-Reply-To: <CAFDzhiSEU8ePYi24pLz8o5HnZboPVcyck0RsHi__ycW-wm9KQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFdSV9t=m7-Fyzr4VG6W4ykpo9o7iYkjUc3-1WU8vhuTh9V-pw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFDzhiSEU8ePYi24pLz8o5HnZboPVcyck0RsHi__ycW-wm9KQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFm4XO3zUbLx3099H+keYHzoBEyG_O+jCPfiZtvZU4fjrqukcQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 26 Nov 2018, 23:39 Gail Badner <gbadner at redhat.com wrote:

> That's fine with me.
>

+1 But could you push the release tag to the reference repo? Just to make
sure we have it for future reference.

Thanks


> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 11:29 AM Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
>
> > This Wednesday we plan to release 6.0 Alpha1 and I thought it best to
> start
> > discussing how to best handle the 6.0 and master branches.
> >
> > I think we should keep 6.0 a little while longer in my fork and 5.4 as
> > master until 6.0 becomes more stabilized to make it easier for 5.4
> > maintenance.  And reconsider as we approach Beta1.
> >
> > But this affects everyone, so wanted to see what others thought...
> > _______________________________________________
> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>

From yoann at hibernate.org  Tue Nov 27 02:13:38 2018
From: yoann at hibernate.org (Yoann Rodiere)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 08:13:38 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] ORM 6 branch
In-Reply-To: <CAFm4XO3zUbLx3099H+keYHzoBEyG_O+jCPfiZtvZU4fjrqukcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFdSV9t=m7-Fyzr4VG6W4ykpo9o7iYkjUc3-1WU8vhuTh9V-pw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFDzhiSEU8ePYi24pLz8o5HnZboPVcyck0RsHi__ycW-wm9KQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO3zUbLx3099H+keYHzoBEyG_O+jCPfiZtvZU4fjrqukcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqagpoM=wLdV__afV7z4rMvdAdwKLqbpQVcXJUt_Lq84GfrUA@mail.gmail.com>

I think it would be better to at least move the code to a 6.0 branch on the
main repository, just so that the code is a little easier to find for
external contributors/users. Even if it's named "6.0-wip" to mention that
you may end up rewriting history on that branch. If we release binaries,
then the code is official and should be in plain sight.

But if it's not an option, just pushing the 6.0.0.Alpha1 tag to the main
repository would be a step in the right direction.

Yoann Rodi?re
Hibernate NoORM Team
yoann at hibernate.org


On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 at 00:25, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org> wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Nov 2018, 23:39 Gail Badner <gbadner at redhat.com wrote:
>
> > That's fine with me.
> >
>
> +1 But could you push the release tag to the reference repo? Just to make
> sure we have it for future reference.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> > On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 11:29 AM Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > This Wednesday we plan to release 6.0 Alpha1 and I thought it best to
> > start
> > > discussing how to best handle the 6.0 and master branches.
> > >
> > > I think we should keep 6.0 a little while longer in my fork and 5.4 as
> > > master until 6.0 becomes more stabilized to make it easier for 5.4
> > > maintenance.  And reconsider as we approach Beta1.
> > >
> > > But this affects everyone, so wanted to see what others thought...
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>

From steve at hibernate.org  Tue Nov 27 07:46:14 2018
From: steve at hibernate.org (Steve Ebersole)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 06:46:14 -0600
Subject: [hibernate-dev] ORM 6 branch
In-Reply-To: <CAEqagpoM=wLdV__afV7z4rMvdAdwKLqbpQVcXJUt_Lq84GfrUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFdSV9t=m7-Fyzr4VG6W4ykpo9o7iYkjUc3-1WU8vhuTh9V-pw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFDzhiSEU8ePYi24pLz8o5HnZboPVcyck0RsHi__ycW-wm9KQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO3zUbLx3099H+keYHzoBEyG_O+jCPfiZtvZU4fjrqukcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpoM=wLdV__afV7z4rMvdAdwKLqbpQVcXJUt_Lq84GfrUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFdSV9tPwa7BgeiARi_w3pPnL0XfufJZRhc9j8J-moB3S0Lp_w@mail.gmail.com>

I'd also be fine with moving to upstream as wip/6.0 with the understanding
that this branch can be re-written and will eventually be deleted.



On Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 1:13 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:

> I think it would be better to at least move the code to a 6.0 branch on
> the main repository, just so that the code is a little easier to find for
> external contributors/users. Even if it's named "6.0-wip" to mention that
> you may end up rewriting history on that branch. If we release binaries,
> then the code is official and should be in plain sight.
>
> But if it's not an option, just pushing the 6.0.0.Alpha1 tag to the main
> repository would be a step in the right direction.
>
> Yoann Rodi?re
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yoann at hibernate.org
>
>
> On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 at 00:25, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Nov 2018, 23:39 Gail Badner <gbadner at redhat.com wrote:
>>
>> > That's fine with me.
>> >
>>
>> +1 But could you push the release tag to the reference repo? Just to make
>> sure we have it for future reference.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>> > On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 11:29 AM Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > This Wednesday we plan to release 6.0 Alpha1 and I thought it best to
>> > start
>> > > discussing how to best handle the 6.0 and master branches.
>> > >
>> > > I think we should keep 6.0 a little while longer in my fork and 5.4 as
>> > > master until 6.0 becomes more stabilized to make it easier for 5.4
>> > > maintenance.  And reconsider as we approach Beta1.
>> > >
>> > > But this affects everyone, so wanted to see what others thought...
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
>

From guillaume.smet at gmail.com  Tue Nov 27 07:55:12 2018
From: guillaume.smet at gmail.com (Guillaume Smet)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 13:55:12 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] ORM 6 branch
In-Reply-To: <CAFdSV9tPwa7BgeiARi_w3pPnL0XfufJZRhc9j8J-moB3S0Lp_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFdSV9t=m7-Fyzr4VG6W4ykpo9o7iYkjUc3-1WU8vhuTh9V-pw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFDzhiSEU8ePYi24pLz8o5HnZboPVcyck0RsHi__ycW-wm9KQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO3zUbLx3099H+keYHzoBEyG_O+jCPfiZtvZU4fjrqukcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpoM=wLdV__afV7z4rMvdAdwKLqbpQVcXJUt_Lq84GfrUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tPwa7BgeiARi_w3pPnL0XfufJZRhc9j8J-moB3S0Lp_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALt0+o8JwdbKgy0i80x5p3yLMDp8NkggT9hKOfrULXHTxUXCag@mail.gmail.com>

+1 to not replace master at this point. At least until the feature coverage
is sufficient and we start to actively fix bugs on 6 and then backport the
fix somehow.

+1 to move wip/6.0 to the main repository with an appropriate warning at
the top of the README.md.

-- 
Guillaume

On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 1:50 PM Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:

> I'd also be fine with moving to upstream as wip/6.0 with the understanding
> that this branch can be re-written and will eventually be deleted.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 1:13 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
> > I think it would be better to at least move the code to a 6.0 branch on
> > the main repository, just so that the code is a little easier to find for
> > external contributors/users. Even if it's named "6.0-wip" to mention that
> > you may end up rewriting history on that branch. If we release binaries,
> > then the code is official and should be in plain sight.
> >
> > But if it's not an option, just pushing the 6.0.0.Alpha1 tag to the main
> > repository would be a step in the right direction.
> >
> > Yoann Rodi?re
> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > yoann at hibernate.org
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 at 00:25, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 26 Nov 2018, 23:39 Gail Badner <gbadner at redhat.com wrote:
> >>
> >> > That's fine with me.
> >> >
> >>
> >> +1 But could you push the release tag to the reference repo? Just to
> make
> >> sure we have it for future reference.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >>
> >> > On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 11:29 AM Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > This Wednesday we plan to release 6.0 Alpha1 and I thought it best
> to
> >> > start
> >> > > discussing how to best handle the 6.0 and master branches.
> >> > >
> >> > > I think we should keep 6.0 a little while longer in my fork and 5.4
> as
> >> > > master until 6.0 becomes more stabilized to make it easier for 5.4
> >> > > maintenance.  And reconsider as we approach Beta1.
> >> > >
> >> > > But this affects everyone, so wanted to see what others thought...
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> > > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> >> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >> > >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> >> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

From davide at hibernate.org  Tue Nov 27 08:22:11 2018
From: davide at hibernate.org (Davide D'Alto)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 13:22:11 +0000
Subject: [hibernate-dev] ORM 6 branch
In-Reply-To: <CANoTJYPPGgpEyCOw-x9E-ukiX9W-crxo_55UpLgFREUhpFvKDA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFdSV9t=m7-Fyzr4VG6W4ykpo9o7iYkjUc3-1WU8vhuTh9V-pw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFDzhiSEU8ePYi24pLz8o5HnZboPVcyck0RsHi__ycW-wm9KQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO3zUbLx3099H+keYHzoBEyG_O+jCPfiZtvZU4fjrqukcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpoM=wLdV__afV7z4rMvdAdwKLqbpQVcXJUt_Lq84GfrUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tPwa7BgeiARi_w3pPnL0XfufJZRhc9j8J-moB3S0Lp_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYPPGgpEyCOw-x9E-ukiX9W-crxo_55UpLgFREUhpFvKDA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANoTJYMYBHh-jLCs4fGpuJUWGGh=xb41ntAQ_L=Wy9rrR3YHQQ@mail.gmail.com>

+1 for the creation of the branch upstream and everything Yoann said.

One curiosity,  once there is an alpha, why would you delete the whole branch?
Couldn't you change everything on the existing branch without deleting it?
It's unusual to rewrite the history of upstream branches but we have
done it before.

PS: Sorry if you received this email twice, I made a mistake

On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 1:20 PM Davide D'Alto <daltodavide at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> +1 for creating the branch upstream and everything Yoann said.
>
> One curiosity,  once there is an alpha, why would you delete the whole branch?
> Couldn't you change everything on the existing branch without deleting it?
> While it's unusual to rewrite the history of upstream branches, we
> have done it before.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 12:50 PM Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:
> >
> > I'd also be fine with moving to upstream as wip/6.0 with the understanding
> > that this branch can be re-written and will eventually be deleted.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 1:13 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
> >
> > > I think it would be better to at least move the code to a 6.0 branch on
> > > the main repository, just so that the code is a little easier to find for
> > > external contributors/users. Even if it's named "6.0-wip" to mention that
> > > you may end up rewriting history on that branch. If we release binaries,
> > > then the code is official and should be in plain sight.
> > >
> > > But if it's not an option, just pushing the 6.0.0.Alpha1 tag to the main
> > > repository would be a step in the right direction.
> > >
> > > Yoann Rodi?re
> > > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > > yoann at hibernate.org
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 at 00:25, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Mon, 26 Nov 2018, 23:39 Gail Badner <gbadner at redhat.com wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > That's fine with me.
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> +1 But could you push the release tag to the reference repo? Just to make
> > >> sure we have it for future reference.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 11:29 AM Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > This Wednesday we plan to release 6.0 Alpha1 and I thought it best to
> > >> > start
> > >> > > discussing how to best handle the 6.0 and master branches.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I think we should keep 6.0 a little while longer in my fork and 5.4 as
> > >> > > master until 6.0 becomes more stabilized to make it easier for 5.4
> > >> > > maintenance.  And reconsider as we approach Beta1.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > But this affects everyone, so wanted to see what others thought...
> > >> > > _______________________________________________
> > >> > > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > >> > > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > >> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> > >> > >
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > >> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > >> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> > >> >
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> hibernate-dev mailing list
> > >> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> > >>
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev


From steve at hibernate.org  Tue Nov 27 08:34:40 2018
From: steve at hibernate.org (Steve Ebersole)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 07:34:40 -0600
Subject: [hibernate-dev] ORM 6 branch
In-Reply-To: <CANoTJYMYBHh-jLCs4fGpuJUWGGh=xb41ntAQ_L=Wy9rrR3YHQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFdSV9t=m7-Fyzr4VG6W4ykpo9o7iYkjUc3-1WU8vhuTh9V-pw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFDzhiSEU8ePYi24pLz8o5HnZboPVcyck0RsHi__ycW-wm9KQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO3zUbLx3099H+keYHzoBEyG_O+jCPfiZtvZU4fjrqukcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpoM=wLdV__afV7z4rMvdAdwKLqbpQVcXJUt_Lq84GfrUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tPwa7BgeiARi_w3pPnL0XfufJZRhc9j8J-moB3S0Lp_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYPPGgpEyCOw-x9E-ukiX9W-crxo_55UpLgFREUhpFvKDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYMYBHh-jLCs4fGpuJUWGGh=xb41ntAQ_L=Wy9rrR3YHQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFdSV9tUiLFqTQrkqBSYi11ryajox3B8xaTbc0NXvV1nCRXWTw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 7:22 AM Davide D'Alto <davide at hibernate.org> wrote:

> +1 for the creation of the branch upstream and everything Yoann said.
>
> One curiosity,  once there is an alpha, why would you delete the whole
> branch?
> Couldn't you change everything on the existing branch without deleting it?
> It's unusual to rewrite the history of upstream branches but we have
> done it before.
>

Well first, I never said it would be deleted after the Alpha.  I said it
would be deleted *at some point*, meaning at some point after 6 is moved to
master.

Also, IMO, topic branches upstream are generally speaking a very bad idea.
So this is something we hardly ever do - maybe y'all do on other projects,
dunno.  But either way, it is very common for a topic branch to go away
eventually.

As far as re-writing history, sure it is unusual but we are already in the
realm of unusual merely by having a topic branch upstream

From davide at hibernate.org  Tue Nov 27 09:03:38 2018
From: davide at hibernate.org (Davide D'Alto)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 14:03:38 +0000
Subject: [hibernate-dev] ORM 6 branch
In-Reply-To: <CAFdSV9tUiLFqTQrkqBSYi11ryajox3B8xaTbc0NXvV1nCRXWTw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFdSV9t=m7-Fyzr4VG6W4ykpo9o7iYkjUc3-1WU8vhuTh9V-pw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFDzhiSEU8ePYi24pLz8o5HnZboPVcyck0RsHi__ycW-wm9KQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO3zUbLx3099H+keYHzoBEyG_O+jCPfiZtvZU4fjrqukcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpoM=wLdV__afV7z4rMvdAdwKLqbpQVcXJUt_Lq84GfrUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tPwa7BgeiARi_w3pPnL0XfufJZRhc9j8J-moB3S0Lp_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYPPGgpEyCOw-x9E-ukiX9W-crxo_55UpLgFREUhpFvKDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYMYBHh-jLCs4fGpuJUWGGh=xb41ntAQ_L=Wy9rrR3YHQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tUiLFqTQrkqBSYi11ryajox3B8xaTbc0NXvV1nCRXWTw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANoTJYPZcZqfwhGLaWTVWOAoJ+5ZaHP5SD7KVTnDRm4CK-4jSQ@mail.gmail.com>

> Well first, I never said it would be deleted after the Alpha.  I said it would be deleted *at some point*, meaning at some point after 6 is moved to master.

Sorry, my bad
On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 1:34 PM Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 7:22 AM Davide D'Alto <davide at hibernate.org> wrote:
>>
>> +1 for the creation of the branch upstream and everything Yoann said.
>>
>> One curiosity,  once there is an alpha, why would you delete the whole branch?
>> Couldn't you change everything on the existing branch without deleting it?
>> It's unusual to rewrite the history of upstream branches but we have
>> done it before.
>
>
> Well first, I never said it would be deleted after the Alpha.  I said it would be deleted *at some point*, meaning at some point after 6 is moved to master.
>
> Also, IMO, topic branches upstream are generally speaking a very bad idea.  So this is something we hardly ever do - maybe y'all do on other projects, dunno.  But either way, it is very common for a topic branch to go away eventually.
>
> As far as re-writing history, sure it is unusual but we are already in the realm of unusual merely by having a topic branch upstream
>

From steve at hibernate.org  Tue Nov 27 09:10:25 2018
From: steve at hibernate.org (Steve Ebersole)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 08:10:25 -0600
Subject: [hibernate-dev] ORM 6 branch
In-Reply-To: <CANoTJYPZcZqfwhGLaWTVWOAoJ+5ZaHP5SD7KVTnDRm4CK-4jSQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFdSV9t=m7-Fyzr4VG6W4ykpo9o7iYkjUc3-1WU8vhuTh9V-pw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFDzhiSEU8ePYi24pLz8o5HnZboPVcyck0RsHi__ycW-wm9KQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO3zUbLx3099H+keYHzoBEyG_O+jCPfiZtvZU4fjrqukcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpoM=wLdV__afV7z4rMvdAdwKLqbpQVcXJUt_Lq84GfrUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tPwa7BgeiARi_w3pPnL0XfufJZRhc9j8J-moB3S0Lp_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYPPGgpEyCOw-x9E-ukiX9W-crxo_55UpLgFREUhpFvKDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYMYBHh-jLCs4fGpuJUWGGh=xb41ntAQ_L=Wy9rrR3YHQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tUiLFqTQrkqBSYi11ryajox3B8xaTbc0NXvV1nCRXWTw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYPZcZqfwhGLaWTVWOAoJ+5ZaHP5SD7KVTnDRm4CK-4jSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFdSV9vh=DgZ1L+QUTrCEn_NpdoYDvQXkxyaN3dpziMN-uOA=A@mail.gmail.com>

NP, I could have been more clear.

I guess I see it this way... this is a Work-In-Progress (wip).  As such it
has certain implications.  In fact I really liked this branch naming
convention (borrowed from Vlad) for just this reason.

On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 8:03 AM Davide D'Alto <davide at hibernate.org> wrote:

> > Well first, I never said it would be deleted after the Alpha.  I said it
> would be deleted *at some point*, meaning at some point after 6 is moved to
> master.
>
> Sorry, my bad
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 1:34 PM Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 7:22 AM Davide D'Alto <davide at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> +1 for the creation of the branch upstream and everything Yoann said.
> >>
> >> One curiosity,  once there is an alpha, why would you delete the whole
> branch?
> >> Couldn't you change everything on the existing branch without deleting
> it?
> >> It's unusual to rewrite the history of upstream branches but we have
> >> done it before.
> >
> >
> > Well first, I never said it would be deleted after the Alpha.  I said it
> would be deleted *at some point*, meaning at some point after 6 is moved to
> master.
> >
> > Also, IMO, topic branches upstream are generally speaking a very bad
> idea.  So this is something we hardly ever do - maybe y'all do on other
> projects, dunno.  But either way, it is very common for a topic branch to
> go away eventually.
> >
> > As far as re-writing history, sure it is unusual but we are already in
> the realm of unusual merely by having a topic branch upstream
> >
>

From yoann at hibernate.org  Tue Nov 27 09:27:05 2018
From: yoann at hibernate.org (Yoann Rodiere)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 15:27:05 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] ORM 6 branch
In-Reply-To: <CAFdSV9tUiLFqTQrkqBSYi11ryajox3B8xaTbc0NXvV1nCRXWTw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFdSV9t=m7-Fyzr4VG6W4ykpo9o7iYkjUc3-1WU8vhuTh9V-pw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFDzhiSEU8ePYi24pLz8o5HnZboPVcyck0RsHi__ycW-wm9KQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO3zUbLx3099H+keYHzoBEyG_O+jCPfiZtvZU4fjrqukcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpoM=wLdV__afV7z4rMvdAdwKLqbpQVcXJUt_Lq84GfrUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tPwa7BgeiARi_w3pPnL0XfufJZRhc9j8J-moB3S0Lp_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYPPGgpEyCOw-x9E-ukiX9W-crxo_55UpLgFREUhpFvKDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYMYBHh-jLCs4fGpuJUWGGh=xb41ntAQ_L=Wy9rrR3YHQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tUiLFqTQrkqBSYi11ryajox3B8xaTbc0NXvV1nCRXWTw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqagppF0BEj3tnzouNG_3PbaECbvGbKW1OkaMm7X5=sGAzw8g@mail.gmail.com>

I may be wrong, but I understood your message as an argument that moving
6.0 to upstream would be bad, because having a topic branch upstream is not
a good practice.

Topic branches are typically short-lived and focus on a specific feature or
bugfix. I agree topic branches in upstream would be a mess.

But let's be honest: wip/6.0 has been around for years, includes tons of
different improvements, and has impacts in many places of the codebase
(nearly 10,000 files from what I can see) . It hardly qualifies as a topic
branch anymore, and even if we extend the definition to include such a
massive changeset, we can probably agree it's not your typical "change a
dozen files and we're done" topic branch. Wouldn't an atypical branch call
for an atypical workflow?

Besides... and perhaps more importantly, it's the branch everyone seems to
be working on these days. Once 6.0.0.Alpha1 has been released, it would
seem odd for all that work to be hidden away in someone's fork, be it the
project leader's. If the branch is regularly rewritten, so be it: at least
it should be easily found.

Again, no problem with labelling it differently to make clear that we offer
no guarantee of a stable history on that branch. To me, the name "wip/6.0"
makes this very clear already.


Yoann Rodi?re
Hibernate NoORM Team
yoann at hibernate.org


On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 at 14:42, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 7:22 AM Davide D'Alto <davide at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
>
> > +1 for the creation of the branch upstream and everything Yoann said.
> >
> > One curiosity,  once there is an alpha, why would you delete the whole
> > branch?
> > Couldn't you change everything on the existing branch without deleting
> it?
> > It's unusual to rewrite the history of upstream branches but we have
> > done it before.
> >
>
> Well first, I never said it would be deleted after the Alpha.  I said it
> would be deleted *at some point*, meaning at some point after 6 is moved to
> master.
>
> Also, IMO, topic branches upstream are generally speaking a very bad idea.
> So this is something we hardly ever do - maybe y'all do on other projects,
> dunno.  But either way, it is very common for a topic branch to go away
> eventually.
>
> As far as re-writing history, sure it is unusual but we are already in the
> realm of unusual merely by having a topic branch upstream
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>

From steve at hibernate.org  Tue Nov 27 09:51:36 2018
From: steve at hibernate.org (Steve Ebersole)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 08:51:36 -0600
Subject: [hibernate-dev] ORM 6 branch
In-Reply-To: <CAEqagppF0BEj3tnzouNG_3PbaECbvGbKW1OkaMm7X5=sGAzw8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFdSV9t=m7-Fyzr4VG6W4ykpo9o7iYkjUc3-1WU8vhuTh9V-pw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFDzhiSEU8ePYi24pLz8o5HnZboPVcyck0RsHi__ycW-wm9KQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO3zUbLx3099H+keYHzoBEyG_O+jCPfiZtvZU4fjrqukcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpoM=wLdV__afV7z4rMvdAdwKLqbpQVcXJUt_Lq84GfrUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tPwa7BgeiARi_w3pPnL0XfufJZRhc9j8J-moB3S0Lp_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYPPGgpEyCOw-x9E-ukiX9W-crxo_55UpLgFREUhpFvKDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYMYBHh-jLCs4fGpuJUWGGh=xb41ntAQ_L=Wy9rrR3YHQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tUiLFqTQrkqBSYi11ryajox3B8xaTbc0NXvV1nCRXWTw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagppF0BEj3tnzouNG_3PbaECbvGbKW1OkaMm7X5=sGAzw8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFdSV9v9zaEM-F8tbnpoGYUuV6JSVbuQ2HRGJDK-JY79mTbm3w@mail.gmail.com>

We seem to be "arguing" the same thing.  As I said above, I am fine with
moving it upstream.  Just making sure everyone has the same expectations
(re-writing, eventual removal, etc) of that upstream branch because they
are not typical of our upstream branches.

I would not really call it "hidden away", but I agree that it should be
easy to access.

Not sure what you mean about your "labelling" point.  Label how?  Maybe you
are referring to the "expectations"?  I agree that the name `wip/...`
already implies these expectations.  Again, that is exactly why we borrowed
that convention from Vlad in the first place.


On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 8:27 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:

> I may be wrong, but I understood your message as an argument that moving
> 6.0 to upstream would be bad, because having a topic branch upstream is not
> a good practice.
>
> Topic branches are typically short-lived and focus on a specific feature
> or bugfix. I agree topic branches in upstream would be a mess.
>
> But let's be honest: wip/6.0 has been around for years, includes tons of
> different improvements, and has impacts in many places of the codebase
> (nearly 10,000 files from what I can see) . It hardly qualifies as a topic
> branch anymore, and even if we extend the definition to include such a
> massive changeset, we can probably agree it's not your typical "change a
> dozen files and we're done" topic branch. Wouldn't an atypical branch call
> for an atypical workflow?
>
> Besides... and perhaps more importantly, it's the branch everyone seems to
> be working on these days. Once 6.0.0.Alpha1 has been released, it would
> seem odd for all that work to be hidden away in someone's fork, be it the
> project leader's. If the branch is regularly rewritten, so be it: at least
> it should be easily found.
>
> Again, no problem with labelling it differently to make clear that we
> offer no guarantee of a stable history on that branch. To me, the name
> "wip/6.0" makes this very clear already.
>
>
> Yoann Rodi?re
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yoann at hibernate.org
>
> On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 at 14:42, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 7:22 AM Davide D'Alto <davide at hibernate.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > +1 for the creation of the branch upstream and everything Yoann said.
>> >
>> > One curiosity,  once there is an alpha, why would you delete the whole
>> > branch?
>> > Couldn't you change everything on the existing branch without deleting
>> it?
>> > It's unusual to rewrite the history of upstream branches but we have
>> > done it before.
>> >
>>
>> Well first, I never said it would be deleted after the Alpha.  I said it
>> would be deleted *at some point*, meaning at some point after 6 is moved
>> to
>> master.
>>
>> Also, IMO, topic branches upstream are generally speaking a very bad idea.
>> So this is something we hardly ever do - maybe y'all do on other projects,
>> dunno.  But either way, it is very common for a topic branch to go away
>> eventually.
>>
>> As far as re-writing history, sure it is unusual but we are already in the
>> realm of unusual merely by having a topic branch upstream
>>
> _______________________________________________
>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
>

From yoann at hibernate.org  Tue Nov 27 10:00:32 2018
From: yoann at hibernate.org (Yoann Rodiere)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 16:00:32 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] ORM 6 branch
In-Reply-To: <CAFdSV9v9zaEM-F8tbnpoGYUuV6JSVbuQ2HRGJDK-JY79mTbm3w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFdSV9t=m7-Fyzr4VG6W4ykpo9o7iYkjUc3-1WU8vhuTh9V-pw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFDzhiSEU8ePYi24pLz8o5HnZboPVcyck0RsHi__ycW-wm9KQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO3zUbLx3099H+keYHzoBEyG_O+jCPfiZtvZU4fjrqukcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpoM=wLdV__afV7z4rMvdAdwKLqbpQVcXJUt_Lq84GfrUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tPwa7BgeiARi_w3pPnL0XfufJZRhc9j8J-moB3S0Lp_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYPPGgpEyCOw-x9E-ukiX9W-crxo_55UpLgFREUhpFvKDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYMYBHh-jLCs4fGpuJUWGGh=xb41ntAQ_L=Wy9rrR3YHQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tUiLFqTQrkqBSYi11ryajox3B8xaTbc0NXvV1nCRXWTw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagppF0BEj3tnzouNG_3PbaECbvGbKW1OkaMm7X5=sGAzw8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9v9zaEM-F8tbnpoGYUuV6JSVbuQ2HRGJDK-JY79mTbm3w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqagppAM-ytXkdvvYrwCOO5V5SDS06EaUSwav3RHwfR2CaDWQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, it seems we all agree then. Great :)

About the "labelling" part, yes, that's what I meant.

Yoann Rodi?re
Hibernate NoORM Team
yoann at hibernate.org


On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 at 15:52, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:

> We seem to be "arguing" the same thing.  As I said above, I am fine with
> moving it upstream.  Just making sure everyone has the same expectations
> (re-writing, eventual removal, etc) of that upstream branch because they
> are not typical of our upstream branches.
>
> I would not really call it "hidden away", but I agree that it should be
> easy to access.
>
> Not sure what you mean about your "labelling" point.  Label how?  Maybe
> you are referring to the "expectations"?  I agree that the name `wip/...`
> already implies these expectations.  Again, that is exactly why we borrowed
> that convention from Vlad in the first place.
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 8:27 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
>> I may be wrong, but I understood your message as an argument that moving
>> 6.0 to upstream would be bad, because having a topic branch upstream is not
>> a good practice.
>>
>> Topic branches are typically short-lived and focus on a specific feature
>> or bugfix. I agree topic branches in upstream would be a mess.
>>
>> But let's be honest: wip/6.0 has been around for years, includes tons of
>> different improvements, and has impacts in many places of the codebase
>> (nearly 10,000 files from what I can see) . It hardly qualifies as a topic
>> branch anymore, and even if we extend the definition to include such a
>> massive changeset, we can probably agree it's not your typical "change a
>> dozen files and we're done" topic branch. Wouldn't an atypical branch call
>> for an atypical workflow?
>>
>> Besides... and perhaps more importantly, it's the branch everyone seems
>> to be working on these days. Once 6.0.0.Alpha1 has been released, it would
>> seem odd for all that work to be hidden away in someone's fork, be it the
>> project leader's. If the branch is regularly rewritten, so be it: at least
>> it should be easily found.
>>
>> Again, no problem with labelling it differently to make clear that we
>> offer no guarantee of a stable history on that branch. To me, the name
>> "wip/6.0" makes this very clear already.
>>
>>
>> Yoann Rodi?re
>> Hibernate NoORM Team
>> yoann at hibernate.org
>>
>> On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 at 14:42, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 7:22 AM Davide D'Alto <davide at hibernate.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > +1 for the creation of the branch upstream and everything Yoann said.
>>> >
>>> > One curiosity,  once there is an alpha, why would you delete the whole
>>> > branch?
>>> > Couldn't you change everything on the existing branch without deleting
>>> it?
>>> > It's unusual to rewrite the history of upstream branches but we have
>>> > done it before.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Well first, I never said it would be deleted after the Alpha.  I said it
>>> would be deleted *at some point*, meaning at some point after 6 is moved
>>> to
>>> master.
>>>
>>> Also, IMO, topic branches upstream are generally speaking a very bad
>>> idea.
>>> So this is something we hardly ever do - maybe y'all do on other
>>> projects,
>>> dunno.  But either way, it is very common for a topic branch to go away
>>> eventually.
>>>
>>> As far as re-writing history, sure it is unusual but we are already in
>>> the
>>> realm of unusual merely by having a topic branch upstream
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>>
>>

From steve at hibernate.org  Tue Nov 27 10:02:55 2018
From: steve at hibernate.org (Steve Ebersole)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 09:02:55 -0600
Subject: [hibernate-dev] ORM 6 branch
In-Reply-To: <CAEqagppAM-ytXkdvvYrwCOO5V5SDS06EaUSwav3RHwfR2CaDWQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFdSV9t=m7-Fyzr4VG6W4ykpo9o7iYkjUc3-1WU8vhuTh9V-pw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFDzhiSEU8ePYi24pLz8o5HnZboPVcyck0RsHi__ycW-wm9KQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO3zUbLx3099H+keYHzoBEyG_O+jCPfiZtvZU4fjrqukcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpoM=wLdV__afV7z4rMvdAdwKLqbpQVcXJUt_Lq84GfrUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tPwa7BgeiARi_w3pPnL0XfufJZRhc9j8J-moB3S0Lp_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYPPGgpEyCOw-x9E-ukiX9W-crxo_55UpLgFREUhpFvKDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYMYBHh-jLCs4fGpuJUWGGh=xb41ntAQ_L=Wy9rrR3YHQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tUiLFqTQrkqBSYi11ryajox3B8xaTbc0NXvV1nCRXWTw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagppF0BEj3tnzouNG_3PbaECbvGbKW1OkaMm7X5=sGAzw8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9v9zaEM-F8tbnpoGYUuV6JSVbuQ2HRGJDK-JY79mTbm3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagppAM-ytXkdvvYrwCOO5V5SDS06EaUSwav3RHwfR2CaDWQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFdSV9vDiG7+XowwD6K++meU62ynOspZYQz0kyPSUGGK5K4piA@mail.gmail.com>

Then Chris and Andrea might as well push it to upstream as soon as they are
done integrating the latest changes from master.

On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 9:01 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:

> Yes, it seems we all agree then. Great :)
>
> About the "labelling" part, yes, that's what I meant.
>
> Yoann Rodi?re
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yoann at hibernate.org
>
>
> On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 at 15:52, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
>> We seem to be "arguing" the same thing.  As I said above, I am fine with
>> moving it upstream.  Just making sure everyone has the same expectations
>> (re-writing, eventual removal, etc) of that upstream branch because they
>> are not typical of our upstream branches.
>>
>> I would not really call it "hidden away", but I agree that it should be
>> easy to access.
>>
>> Not sure what you mean about your "labelling" point.  Label how?  Maybe
>> you are referring to the "expectations"?  I agree that the name `wip/...`
>> already implies these expectations.  Again, that is exactly why we borrowed
>> that convention from Vlad in the first place.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 8:27 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I may be wrong, but I understood your message as an argument that moving
>>> 6.0 to upstream would be bad, because having a topic branch upstream is not
>>> a good practice.
>>>
>>> Topic branches are typically short-lived and focus on a specific feature
>>> or bugfix. I agree topic branches in upstream would be a mess.
>>>
>>> But let's be honest: wip/6.0 has been around for years, includes tons of
>>> different improvements, and has impacts in many places of the codebase
>>> (nearly 10,000 files from what I can see) . It hardly qualifies as a topic
>>> branch anymore, and even if we extend the definition to include such a
>>> massive changeset, we can probably agree it's not your typical "change a
>>> dozen files and we're done" topic branch. Wouldn't an atypical branch call
>>> for an atypical workflow?
>>>
>>> Besides... and perhaps more importantly, it's the branch everyone seems
>>> to be working on these days. Once 6.0.0.Alpha1 has been released, it would
>>> seem odd for all that work to be hidden away in someone's fork, be it the
>>> project leader's. If the branch is regularly rewritten, so be it: at least
>>> it should be easily found.
>>>
>>> Again, no problem with labelling it differently to make clear that we
>>> offer no guarantee of a stable history on that branch. To me, the name
>>> "wip/6.0" makes this very clear already.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yoann Rodi?re
>>> Hibernate NoORM Team
>>> yoann at hibernate.org
>>>
>>> On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 at 14:42, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 7:22 AM Davide D'Alto <davide at hibernate.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > +1 for the creation of the branch upstream and everything Yoann said.
>>>> >
>>>> > One curiosity,  once there is an alpha, why would you delete the whole
>>>> > branch?
>>>> > Couldn't you change everything on the existing branch without
>>>> deleting it?
>>>> > It's unusual to rewrite the history of upstream branches but we have
>>>> > done it before.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Well first, I never said it would be deleted after the Alpha.  I said it
>>>> would be deleted *at some point*, meaning at some point after 6 is
>>>> moved to
>>>> master.
>>>>
>>>> Also, IMO, topic branches upstream are generally speaking a very bad
>>>> idea.
>>>> So this is something we hardly ever do - maybe y'all do on other
>>>> projects,
>>>> dunno.  But either way, it is very common for a topic branch to go away
>>>> eventually.
>>>>
>>>> As far as re-writing history, sure it is unusual but we are already in
>>>> the
>>>> realm of unusual merely by having a topic branch upstream
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>>>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>>>
>>>

From steve at hibernate.org  Tue Nov 27 10:43:28 2018
From: steve at hibernate.org (Steve Ebersole)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 09:43:28 -0600
Subject: [hibernate-dev] ORM 6 branch
In-Reply-To: <CAFdSV9vDiG7+XowwD6K++meU62ynOspZYQz0kyPSUGGK5K4piA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFdSV9t=m7-Fyzr4VG6W4ykpo9o7iYkjUc3-1WU8vhuTh9V-pw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFDzhiSEU8ePYi24pLz8o5HnZboPVcyck0RsHi__ycW-wm9KQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO3zUbLx3099H+keYHzoBEyG_O+jCPfiZtvZU4fjrqukcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpoM=wLdV__afV7z4rMvdAdwKLqbpQVcXJUt_Lq84GfrUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tPwa7BgeiARi_w3pPnL0XfufJZRhc9j8J-moB3S0Lp_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYPPGgpEyCOw-x9E-ukiX9W-crxo_55UpLgFREUhpFvKDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYMYBHh-jLCs4fGpuJUWGGh=xb41ntAQ_L=Wy9rrR3YHQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tUiLFqTQrkqBSYi11ryajox3B8xaTbc0NXvV1nCRXWTw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagppF0BEj3tnzouNG_3PbaECbvGbKW1OkaMm7X5=sGAzw8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9v9zaEM-F8tbnpoGYUuV6JSVbuQ2HRGJDK-JY79mTbm3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagppAM-ytXkdvvYrwCOO5V5SDS06EaUSwav3RHwfR2CaDWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9vDiG7+XowwD6K++meU62ynOspZYQz0kyPSUGGK5K4piA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFdSV9vdsog62oKQQ=N_Eer-qNfWM+FM4BEzxPyMi=N7cMUSyQ@mail.gmail.com>

One thing that just occurred to me and Jan confirmed on Gitter...
Maintaining those tags will be impossible as long as we have to continue to
re-write history for 6.0 to integrate changes from master - merge is just
not an option there.  After each re-write the commits that those tags point
to are gone.


On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 9:02 AM Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:

> Then Chris and Andrea might as well push it to upstream as soon as they
> are done integrating the latest changes from master.
>
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 9:01 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
>> Yes, it seems we all agree then. Great :)
>>
>> About the "labelling" part, yes, that's what I meant.
>>
>> Yoann Rodi?re
>> Hibernate NoORM Team
>> yoann at hibernate.org
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 at 15:52, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:
>>
>>> We seem to be "arguing" the same thing.  As I said above, I am fine with
>>> moving it upstream.  Just making sure everyone has the same expectations
>>> (re-writing, eventual removal, etc) of that upstream branch because they
>>> are not typical of our upstream branches.
>>>
>>> I would not really call it "hidden away", but I agree that it should be
>>> easy to access.
>>>
>>> Not sure what you mean about your "labelling" point.  Label how?  Maybe
>>> you are referring to the "expectations"?  I agree that the name `wip/...`
>>> already implies these expectations.  Again, that is exactly why we borrowed
>>> that convention from Vlad in the first place.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 8:27 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I may be wrong, but I understood your message as an argument that
>>>> moving 6.0 to upstream would be bad, because having a topic branch upstream
>>>> is not a good practice.
>>>>
>>>> Topic branches are typically short-lived and focus on a specific
>>>> feature or bugfix. I agree topic branches in upstream would be a mess.
>>>>
>>>> But let's be honest: wip/6.0 has been around for years, includes tons
>>>> of different improvements, and has impacts in many places of the codebase
>>>> (nearly 10,000 files from what I can see) . It hardly qualifies as a topic
>>>> branch anymore, and even if we extend the definition to include such a
>>>> massive changeset, we can probably agree it's not your typical "change a
>>>> dozen files and we're done" topic branch. Wouldn't an atypical branch call
>>>> for an atypical workflow?
>>>>
>>>> Besides... and perhaps more importantly, it's the branch everyone seems
>>>> to be working on these days. Once 6.0.0.Alpha1 has been released, it would
>>>> seem odd for all that work to be hidden away in someone's fork, be it the
>>>> project leader's. If the branch is regularly rewritten, so be it: at least
>>>> it should be easily found.
>>>>
>>>> Again, no problem with labelling it differently to make clear that we
>>>> offer no guarantee of a stable history on that branch. To me, the name
>>>> "wip/6.0" makes this very clear already.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yoann Rodi?re
>>>> Hibernate NoORM Team
>>>> yoann at hibernate.org
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 at 14:42, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 7:22 AM Davide D'Alto <davide at hibernate.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > +1 for the creation of the branch upstream and everything Yoann said.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > One curiosity,  once there is an alpha, why would you delete the
>>>>> whole
>>>>> > branch?
>>>>> > Couldn't you change everything on the existing branch without
>>>>> deleting it?
>>>>> > It's unusual to rewrite the history of upstream branches but we have
>>>>> > done it before.
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> Well first, I never said it would be deleted after the Alpha.  I said
>>>>> it
>>>>> would be deleted *at some point*, meaning at some point after 6 is
>>>>> moved to
>>>>> master.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, IMO, topic branches upstream are generally speaking a very bad
>>>>> idea.
>>>>> So this is something we hardly ever do - maybe y'all do on other
>>>>> projects,
>>>>> dunno.  But either way, it is very common for a topic branch to go away
>>>>> eventually.
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as re-writing history, sure it is unusual but we are already in
>>>>> the
>>>>> realm of unusual merely by having a topic branch upstream
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>>>>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>>>>
>>>>

From yoann at hibernate.org  Tue Nov 27 11:14:44 2018
From: yoann at hibernate.org (Yoann Rodiere)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 17:14:44 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] ORM 6 branch
In-Reply-To: <CAFdSV9vdsog62oKQQ=N_Eer-qNfWM+FM4BEzxPyMi=N7cMUSyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFdSV9t=m7-Fyzr4VG6W4ykpo9o7iYkjUc3-1WU8vhuTh9V-pw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFDzhiSEU8ePYi24pLz8o5HnZboPVcyck0RsHi__ycW-wm9KQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO3zUbLx3099H+keYHzoBEyG_O+jCPfiZtvZU4fjrqukcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpoM=wLdV__afV7z4rMvdAdwKLqbpQVcXJUt_Lq84GfrUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tPwa7BgeiARi_w3pPnL0XfufJZRhc9j8J-moB3S0Lp_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYPPGgpEyCOw-x9E-ukiX9W-crxo_55UpLgFREUhpFvKDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYMYBHh-jLCs4fGpuJUWGGh=xb41ntAQ_L=Wy9rrR3YHQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tUiLFqTQrkqBSYi11ryajox3B8xaTbc0NXvV1nCRXWTw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagppF0BEj3tnzouNG_3PbaECbvGbKW1OkaMm7X5=sGAzw8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9v9zaEM-F8tbnpoGYUuV6JSVbuQ2HRGJDK-JY79mTbm3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagppAM-ytXkdvvYrwCOO5V5SDS06EaUSwav3RHwfR2CaDWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9vDiG7+XowwD6K++meU62ynOspZYQz0kyPSUGGK5K4piA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9vdsog62oKQQ=N_Eer-qNfWM+FM4BEzxPyMi=N7cMUSyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqagppChr8F9mbuz0VcX-UM_jQPZzVepaboaN82agc_nBBs3A@mail.gmail.com>

It works the other way: as long as there is a reference to a commit (a tag,
a branch), the commit stays in the repository. Unreferenced commits get
garbage-collected.

So you can definitely tag something even if you rewrite the corresponding
branch later. The tag will point to a commit that doesn't exist anymore on
you branch, but that's to be expected.

To be clear you'll end up with something like this:

* [Tip of branch: wip/6.0] Commit B (rewritten)
|
* Commit A (rewritten)
|
|   * [Tag: 6.0.0.Alpha1] Commit B (original)
|   |
|   * Commit A (original)
|   |
*   | Some commit that was added on master (5.4): on branch wip/6.0 only
|   |
|  /
* Common ancestor (some
|
...

That looks reasonable to be considering you want to rewrite history on
wip/6.0. You can avoid it and keep a flat structure, but it will require
different strategies that don't involve rewriting history (e.g. merging 5.4
into wip/6.0 instead of rebasing).

Yoann Rodi?re
Hibernate NoORM Team
yoann at hibernate.org


On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 at 16:43, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:

> One thing that just occurred to me and Jan confirmed on Gitter...
> Maintaining those tags will be impossible as long as we have to continue to
> re-write history for 6.0 to integrate changes from master - merge is just
> not an option there.  After each re-write the commits that those tags point
> to are gone.
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 9:02 AM Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Then Chris and Andrea might as well push it to upstream as soon as they
>> are done integrating the latest changes from master.
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 9:01 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, it seems we all agree then. Great :)
>>>
>>> About the "labelling" part, yes, that's what I meant.
>>>
>>> Yoann Rodi?re
>>> Hibernate NoORM Team
>>> yoann at hibernate.org
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 at 15:52, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> We seem to be "arguing" the same thing.  As I said above, I am fine
>>>> with moving it upstream.  Just making sure everyone has the same
>>>> expectations (re-writing, eventual removal, etc) of that upstream branch
>>>> because they are not typical of our upstream branches.
>>>>
>>>> I would not really call it "hidden away", but I agree that it should be
>>>> easy to access.
>>>>
>>>> Not sure what you mean about your "labelling" point.  Label how?  Maybe
>>>> you are referring to the "expectations"?  I agree that the name `wip/...`
>>>> already implies these expectations.  Again, that is exactly why we borrowed
>>>> that convention from Vlad in the first place.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 8:27 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I may be wrong, but I understood your message as an argument that
>>>>> moving 6.0 to upstream would be bad, because having a topic branch upstream
>>>>> is not a good practice.
>>>>>
>>>>> Topic branches are typically short-lived and focus on a specific
>>>>> feature or bugfix. I agree topic branches in upstream would be a mess.
>>>>>
>>>>> But let's be honest: wip/6.0 has been around for years, includes tons
>>>>> of different improvements, and has impacts in many places of the codebase
>>>>> (nearly 10,000 files from what I can see) . It hardly qualifies as a topic
>>>>> branch anymore, and even if we extend the definition to include such a
>>>>> massive changeset, we can probably agree it's not your typical "change a
>>>>> dozen files and we're done" topic branch. Wouldn't an atypical branch call
>>>>> for an atypical workflow?
>>>>>
>>>>> Besides... and perhaps more importantly, it's the branch everyone
>>>>> seems to be working on these days. Once 6.0.0.Alpha1 has been released, it
>>>>> would seem odd for all that work to be hidden away in someone's fork, be it
>>>>> the project leader's. If the branch is regularly rewritten, so be it: at
>>>>> least it should be easily found.
>>>>>
>>>>> Again, no problem with labelling it differently to make clear that we
>>>>> offer no guarantee of a stable history on that branch. To me, the name
>>>>> "wip/6.0" makes this very clear already.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yoann Rodi?re
>>>>> Hibernate NoORM Team
>>>>> yoann at hibernate.org
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 at 14:42, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 7:22 AM Davide D'Alto <davide at hibernate.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > +1 for the creation of the branch upstream and everything Yoann
>>>>>> said.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > One curiosity,  once there is an alpha, why would you delete the
>>>>>> whole
>>>>>> > branch?
>>>>>> > Couldn't you change everything on the existing branch without
>>>>>> deleting it?
>>>>>> > It's unusual to rewrite the history of upstream branches but we have
>>>>>> > done it before.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well first, I never said it would be deleted after the Alpha.  I said
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> would be deleted *at some point*, meaning at some point after 6 is
>>>>>> moved to
>>>>>> master.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, IMO, topic branches upstream are generally speaking a very bad
>>>>>> idea.
>>>>>> So this is something we hardly ever do - maybe y'all do on other
>>>>>> projects,
>>>>>> dunno.  But either way, it is very common for a topic branch to go
>>>>>> away
>>>>>> eventually.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as re-writing history, sure it is unusual but we are already
>>>>>> in the
>>>>>> realm of unusual merely by having a topic branch upstream
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>>>>>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>>>>>
>>>>>

From steve at hibernate.org  Tue Nov 27 11:42:52 2018
From: steve at hibernate.org (Steve Ebersole)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 10:42:52 -0600
Subject: [hibernate-dev] ORM 6 branch
In-Reply-To: <CAEqagppChr8F9mbuz0VcX-UM_jQPZzVepaboaN82agc_nBBs3A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFdSV9t=m7-Fyzr4VG6W4ykpo9o7iYkjUc3-1WU8vhuTh9V-pw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFDzhiSEU8ePYi24pLz8o5HnZboPVcyck0RsHi__ycW-wm9KQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFm4XO3zUbLx3099H+keYHzoBEyG_O+jCPfiZtvZU4fjrqukcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagpoM=wLdV__afV7z4rMvdAdwKLqbpQVcXJUt_Lq84GfrUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tPwa7BgeiARi_w3pPnL0XfufJZRhc9j8J-moB3S0Lp_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYPPGgpEyCOw-x9E-ukiX9W-crxo_55UpLgFREUhpFvKDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoTJYMYBHh-jLCs4fGpuJUWGGh=xb41ntAQ_L=Wy9rrR3YHQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9tUiLFqTQrkqBSYi11ryajox3B8xaTbc0NXvV1nCRXWTw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagppF0BEj3tnzouNG_3PbaECbvGbKW1OkaMm7X5=sGAzw8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9v9zaEM-F8tbnpoGYUuV6JSVbuQ2HRGJDK-JY79mTbm3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagppAM-ytXkdvvYrwCOO5V5SDS06EaUSwav3RHwfR2CaDWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9vDiG7+XowwD6K++meU62ynOspZYQz0kyPSUGGK5K4piA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFdSV9vdsog62oKQQ=N_Eer-qNfWM+FM4BEzxPyMi=N7cMUSyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEqagppChr8F9mbuz0VcX-UM_jQPZzVepaboaN82agc_nBBs3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFdSV9sGoCi05k7Zht0UqWYCePGU80Aha5W94x2daqBBF-hN2A@mail.gmail.com>

Good to know.  Thanks!

On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 10:15 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:

> It works the other way: as long as there is a reference to a commit (a
> tag, a branch), the commit stays in the repository. Unreferenced commits
> get garbage-collected.
>
> So you can definitely tag something even if you rewrite the corresponding
> branch later. The tag will point to a commit that doesn't exist anymore on
> you branch, but that's to be expected.
>
> To be clear you'll end up with something like this:
>
> * [Tip of branch: wip/6.0] Commit B (rewritten)
> |
> * Commit A (rewritten)
> |
> |   * [Tag: 6.0.0.Alpha1] Commit B (original)
> |   |
> |   * Commit A (original)
> |   |
> *   | Some commit that was added on master (5.4): on branch wip/6.0 only
> |   |
> |  /
> * Common ancestor (some
> |
> ...
>
> That looks reasonable to be considering you want to rewrite history on
> wip/6.0. You can avoid it and keep a flat structure, but it will require
> different strategies that don't involve rewriting history (e.g. merging 5.4
> into wip/6.0 instead of rebasing).
>
>
> Yoann Rodi?re
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yoann at hibernate.org
>
>
> On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 at 16:43, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
>> One thing that just occurred to me and Jan confirmed on Gitter...
>> Maintaining those tags will be impossible as long as we have to continue to
>> re-write history for 6.0 to integrate changes from master - merge is just
>> not an option there.  After each re-write the commits that those tags point
>> to are gone.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 9:02 AM Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Then Chris and Andrea might as well push it to upstream as soon as they
>>> are done integrating the latest changes from master.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 9:01 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, it seems we all agree then. Great :)
>>>>
>>>> About the "labelling" part, yes, that's what I meant.
>>>>
>>>> Yoann Rodi?re
>>>> Hibernate NoORM Team
>>>> yoann at hibernate.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 at 15:52, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We seem to be "arguing" the same thing.  As I said above, I am fine
>>>>> with moving it upstream.  Just making sure everyone has the same
>>>>> expectations (re-writing, eventual removal, etc) of that upstream branch
>>>>> because they are not typical of our upstream branches.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would not really call it "hidden away", but I agree that it should
>>>>> be easy to access.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure what you mean about your "labelling" point.  Label how?
>>>>> Maybe you are referring to the "expectations"?  I agree that the name
>>>>> `wip/...` already implies these expectations.  Again, that is exactly why
>>>>> we borrowed that convention from Vlad in the first place.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 8:27 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I may be wrong, but I understood your message as an argument that
>>>>>> moving 6.0 to upstream would be bad, because having a topic branch upstream
>>>>>> is not a good practice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Topic branches are typically short-lived and focus on a specific
>>>>>> feature or bugfix. I agree topic branches in upstream would be a mess.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But let's be honest: wip/6.0 has been around for years, includes tons
>>>>>> of different improvements, and has impacts in many places of the codebase
>>>>>> (nearly 10,000 files from what I can see) . It hardly qualifies as a topic
>>>>>> branch anymore, and even if we extend the definition to include such a
>>>>>> massive changeset, we can probably agree it's not your typical "change a
>>>>>> dozen files and we're done" topic branch. Wouldn't an atypical branch call
>>>>>> for an atypical workflow?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Besides... and perhaps more importantly, it's the branch everyone
>>>>>> seems to be working on these days. Once 6.0.0.Alpha1 has been released, it
>>>>>> would seem odd for all that work to be hidden away in someone's fork, be it
>>>>>> the project leader's. If the branch is regularly rewritten, so be it: at
>>>>>> least it should be easily found.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Again, no problem with labelling it differently to make clear that we
>>>>>> offer no guarantee of a stable history on that branch. To me, the name
>>>>>> "wip/6.0" makes this very clear already.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yoann Rodi?re
>>>>>> Hibernate NoORM Team
>>>>>> yoann at hibernate.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 at 14:42, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 7:22 AM Davide D'Alto <davide at hibernate.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > +1 for the creation of the branch upstream and everything Yoann
>>>>>>> said.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > One curiosity,  once there is an alpha, why would you delete the
>>>>>>> whole
>>>>>>> > branch?
>>>>>>> > Couldn't you change everything on the existing branch without
>>>>>>> deleting it?
>>>>>>> > It's unusual to rewrite the history of upstream branches but we
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> > done it before.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well first, I never said it would be deleted after the Alpha.  I
>>>>>>> said it
>>>>>>> would be deleted *at some point*, meaning at some point after 6 is
>>>>>>> moved to
>>>>>>> master.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, IMO, topic branches upstream are generally speaking a very bad
>>>>>>> idea.
>>>>>>> So this is something we hardly ever do - maybe y'all do on other
>>>>>>> projects,
>>>>>>> dunno.  But either way, it is very common for a topic branch to go
>>>>>>> away
>>>>>>> eventually.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As far as re-writing history, sure it is unusual but we are already
>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>> realm of unusual merely by having a topic branch upstream
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>

From gbadner at redhat.com  Wed Nov 28 01:49:13 2018
From: gbadner at redhat.com (Gail Badner)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 22:49:13 -0800
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Can't build Hibernate ORM 5.1 documentation
Message-ID: <CAFDzhiTGhfL=LyRGK-QCU3m2EgvLG=XTO9EAOovRJ09JZsHdtw@mail.gmail.com>

I'm getting ready to release 5.1.17, but I'm having trouble building the
documentation.

I can't even build the documentation using 5.1.16 tag. It worked fine when
I released 5.1.16.Final in August.

A new property was added for HHH-13011, and I need to get that documented
in the user guide for 5.1.17.

Here is what I'm seeing when I execute `./gradlew buildDocs`:

:documentation:renderDocBook_mappingGuide_en-US_html
rendering Book(mappingGuide) en-US/html
Extending script classloader with the jdocbookXsl dependencies
redirecting console output to file
[/home/gbadner/git/hibernate-orm-5.1-copy/documentation/target/docbook/work/mappingGuide/log/console-en-US-html.log]

Error on line 1 column 1 of http://docbook.org/xml/5.0/dtd/docbook.dtd:
 Error reported by XML parser: The markup declarations contained or pointed
to by the document type declaration must be well-formed.
Resetting console output
:documentation:renderDocBook_mappingGuide_en-US_html FAILED

FAILURE: Build failed with an exception.

* What went wrong:
Execution failed for task
':documentation:renderDocBook_mappingGuide_en-US_html'.
> error rendering [org.xml.sax.SAXParseException; systemId:
http://docbook.org/xml/5.0/dtd/docbook.dtd; lineNumber: 1; columnNumber: 1;
The markup decl
arations contained or pointed to by the document type declaration must be
well-formed.] on Hibernate_Mapping_Guide.xml

The log file (/home/gbadner/git/hibernate-orm-5.1-copy/documentation/target/docbook/work/mappingGuide/log/console-en-US-html.log)
was empty.

I'm attaching the console log from executing `./gradlew buildDocs --debug
--info`.

Any ideas???

Thanks,
Gail

From gbadner at redhat.com  Wed Nov 28 04:37:28 2018
From: gbadner at redhat.com (Gail Badner)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 01:37:28 -0800
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Can't build Hibernate ORM 5.1 documentation
In-Reply-To: <CAFDzhiTGhfL=LyRGK-QCU3m2EgvLG=XTO9EAOovRJ09JZsHdtw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFDzhiTGhfL=LyRGK-QCU3m2EgvLG=XTO9EAOovRJ09JZsHdtw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFDzhiQ4TnvDwxs-h19i87bv3PG2zex_Y2-6X5h8kmnYocetkg@mail.gmail.com>

Andrea found a solution that works. :)

On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 10:49 PM Gail Badner <gbadner at redhat.com> wrote:

> I'm getting ready to release 5.1.17, but I'm having trouble building the
> documentation.
>
> I can't even build the documentation using 5.1.16 tag. It worked fine when
> I released 5.1.16.Final in August.
>
> A new property was added for HHH-13011, and I need to get that documented
> in the user guide for 5.1.17.
>
> Here is what I'm seeing when I execute `./gradlew buildDocs`:
>
> :documentation:renderDocBook_mappingGuide_en-US_html
> rendering Book(mappingGuide) en-US/html
> Extending script classloader with the jdocbookXsl dependencies
> redirecting console output to file
> [/home/gbadner/git/hibernate-orm-5.1-copy/documentation/target/docbook/work/mappingGuide/log/console-en-US-html.log]
>
> Error on line 1 column 1 of http://docbook.org/xml/5.0/dtd/docbook.dtd:
>  Error reported by XML parser: The markup declarations contained or
> pointed to by the document type declaration must be well-formed.
> Resetting console output
> :documentation:renderDocBook_mappingGuide_en-US_html FAILED
>
> FAILURE: Build failed with an exception.
>
> * What went wrong:
> Execution failed for task
> ':documentation:renderDocBook_mappingGuide_en-US_html'.
> > error rendering [org.xml.sax.SAXParseException; systemId:
> http://docbook.org/xml/5.0/dtd/docbook.dtd; lineNumber: 1; columnNumber:
> 1; The markup decl
> arations contained or pointed to by the document type declaration must be
> well-formed.] on Hibernate_Mapping_Guide.xml
>
> The log file (/home/gbadner/git/hibernate-orm-5.1-copy/documentation/target/docbook/work/mappingGuide/log/console-en-US-html.log)
> was empty.
>
> I'm attaching the console log from executing `./gradlew buildDocs --debug
> --info`.
>
> Any ideas???
>
> Thanks,
> Gail
>

From mihalcea.vlad at gmail.com  Wed Nov 28 08:19:18 2018
From: mihalcea.vlad at gmail.com (Vlad Mihalcea)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 15:19:18 +0200
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Can't build Hibernate ORM 5.1 documentation
In-Reply-To: <CAFDzhiQ4TnvDwxs-h19i87bv3PG2zex_Y2-6X5h8kmnYocetkg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFDzhiTGhfL=LyRGK-QCU3m2EgvLG=XTO9EAOovRJ09JZsHdtw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFDzhiQ4TnvDwxs-h19i87bv3PG2zex_Y2-6X5h8kmnYocetkg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+gWKMBSmkKK0e6k7pEMAKwS5aY0ufJh6bmG=zTbKU5BtkgUFg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Form 5.2, we no longer have the DocBooks tasks.

The only document using DocBook in 5.1 is the Integration Guide:

http://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/orm/5.1/integrationsGuide/

We converted that to AsciiDoc in 5.2

http://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/orm/5.2/integrationguide/

It's worth investigating whether we could remove them from 5.1 as well.

Vlad

On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 11:37 AM Gail Badner <gbadner at redhat.com> wrote:

> Andrea found a solution that works. :)
>
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 10:49 PM Gail Badner <gbadner at redhat.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm getting ready to release 5.1.17, but I'm having trouble building the
>> documentation.
>>
>> I can't even build the documentation using 5.1.16 tag. It worked fine
>> when I released 5.1.16.Final in August.
>>
>> A new property was added for HHH-13011, and I need to get that documented
>> in the user guide for 5.1.17.
>>
>> Here is what I'm seeing when I execute `./gradlew buildDocs`:
>>
>> :documentation:renderDocBook_mappingGuide_en-US_html
>> rendering Book(mappingGuide) en-US/html
>> Extending script classloader with the jdocbookXsl dependencies
>> redirecting console output to file
>> [/home/gbadner/git/hibernate-orm-5.1-copy/documentation/target/docbook/work/mappingGuide/log/console-en-US-html.log]
>>
>> Error on line 1 column 1 of http://docbook.org/xml/5.0/dtd/docbook.dtd:
>>  Error reported by XML parser: The markup declarations contained or
>> pointed to by the document type declaration must be well-formed.
>> Resetting console output
>> :documentation:renderDocBook_mappingGuide_en-US_html FAILED
>>
>> FAILURE: Build failed with an exception.
>>
>> * What went wrong:
>> Execution failed for task
>> ':documentation:renderDocBook_mappingGuide_en-US_html'.
>> > error rendering [org.xml.sax.SAXParseException; systemId:
>> http://docbook.org/xml/5.0/dtd/docbook.dtd; lineNumber: 1; columnNumber:
>> 1; The markup decl
>> arations contained or pointed to by the document type declaration must be
>> well-formed.] on Hibernate_Mapping_Guide.xml
>>
>> The log file (/home/gbadner/git/hibernate-orm-5.1-copy/documentation/target/docbook/work/mappingGuide/log/console-en-US-html.log)
>> was empty.
>>
>> I'm attaching the console log from executing `./gradlew buildDocs --debug
>> --info`.
>>
>> Any ideas???
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Gail
>>
>

From smarlow at redhat.com  Wed Nov 28 15:58:41 2018
From: smarlow at redhat.com (Scott Marlow)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 15:58:41 -0500
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Should the TransactionSynchronizationRegistry be
 cached by the JtaPlatform or perhaps at the SessionFactory level?
Message-ID: <8422282b-befe-63e8-13a0-8afc185a88ab@redhat.com>

Hi,

I started working on a WildFly change WFLY-11243 [1] to cache the 
TransactionSynchronizationRegistry inside of the WildFly JtaPlatform 
instance.  The purpose of caching the TransactionSynchronizationRegistry 
is to avoid repeated JndiService.locate() calls, like during entity 
manager creation time [2] and other uses as well.

My question is whether the idea of caching the 
TransactionSynchronizationRegistry instance is already handled at the 
session factory level?  If not, would that make sense?

[3] is the WildFly pr to cache the TransactionSynchronizationRegistry 
instance, to avoid repeatedly looking it up (since it rarely ever 
changes).  If there is a way to instead have the 
TransactionSynchronizationRegistry cached at the SF level, that might be 
better.

Scott

[1] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/WFLY-11243
[2] https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/kXHq27RpSSs8GS8v0S8Dog
[3] https://github.com/wildfly/wildfly/pull/11784

From gbadner at redhat.com  Wed Nov 28 17:18:06 2018
From: gbadner at redhat.com (Gail Badner)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 14:18:06 -0800
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Can't build Hibernate ORM 5.1 documentation
In-Reply-To: <CA+gWKMBSmkKK0e6k7pEMAKwS5aY0ufJh6bmG=zTbKU5BtkgUFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFDzhiTGhfL=LyRGK-QCU3m2EgvLG=XTO9EAOovRJ09JZsHdtw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFDzhiQ4TnvDwxs-h19i87bv3PG2zex_Y2-6X5h8kmnYocetkg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+gWKMBSmkKK0e6k7pEMAKwS5aY0ufJh6bmG=zTbKU5BtkgUFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFDzhiTruk7PjGordCdfj-ENDXMOg3tjEfjqsorzpOru1BH98Q@mail.gmail.com>

Since this is the last 5.1.x release, I don't think it's worth doing
anything more with the documentation in that branch unless absolutely
necessary.

On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 5:19 AM Vlad Mihalcea <mihalcea.vlad at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Form 5.2, we no longer have the DocBooks tasks.
>
> The only document using DocBook in 5.1 is the Integration Guide:
>
> http://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/orm/5.1/integrationsGuide/
>
> We converted that to AsciiDoc in 5.2
>
> http://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/orm/5.2/integrationguide/
>
> It's worth investigating whether we could remove them from 5.1 as well.
>
> Vlad
>
> On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 11:37 AM Gail Badner <gbadner at redhat.com> wrote:
>
>> Andrea found a solution that works. :)
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 10:49 PM Gail Badner <gbadner at redhat.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm getting ready to release 5.1.17, but I'm having trouble building the
>>> documentation.
>>>
>>> I can't even build the documentation using 5.1.16 tag. It worked fine
>>> when I released 5.1.16.Final in August.
>>>
>>> A new property was added for HHH-13011, and I need to get that
>>> documented in the user guide for 5.1.17.
>>>
>>> Here is what I'm seeing when I execute `./gradlew buildDocs`:
>>>
>>> :documentation:renderDocBook_mappingGuide_en-US_html
>>> rendering Book(mappingGuide) en-US/html
>>> Extending script classloader with the jdocbookXsl dependencies
>>> redirecting console output to file
>>> [/home/gbadner/git/hibernate-orm-5.1-copy/documentation/target/docbook/work/mappingGuide/log/console-en-US-html.log]
>>>
>>> Error on line 1 column 1 of http://docbook.org/xml/5.0/dtd/docbook.dtd:
>>>  Error reported by XML parser: The markup declarations contained or
>>> pointed to by the document type declaration must be well-formed.
>>> Resetting console output
>>> :documentation:renderDocBook_mappingGuide_en-US_html FAILED
>>>
>>> FAILURE: Build failed with an exception.
>>>
>>> * What went wrong:
>>> Execution failed for task
>>> ':documentation:renderDocBook_mappingGuide_en-US_html'.
>>> > error rendering [org.xml.sax.SAXParseException; systemId:
>>> http://docbook.org/xml/5.0/dtd/docbook.dtd; lineNumber: 1;
>>> columnNumber: 1; The markup decl
>>> arations contained or pointed to by the document type declaration must
>>> be well-formed.] on Hibernate_Mapping_Guide.xml
>>>
>>> The log file (/home/gbadner/git/hibernate-orm-5.1-copy/documentation/target/docbook/work/mappingGuide/log/console-en-US-html.log)
>>> was empty.
>>>
>>> I'm attaching the console log from executing `./gradlew buildDocs --debug
>>> --info`.
>>>
>>> Any ideas???
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Gail
>>>
>>

From gbadner at redhat.com  Wed Nov 28 21:22:04 2018
From: gbadner at redhat.com (Gail Badner)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 18:22:04 -0800
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Hibernate ORM 5.1.17.Final has been released
Message-ID: <CAFDzhiTGnoSXf9rVWHvNGJSYXOF-RG81C2QyoCca-UsMDC8x=Q@mail.gmail.com>

This is the final release of the 5.1 series. For details see
http://in.relation.to/2018/11/28/hibernate-orm-5117-final-release/.

From yoann at hibernate.org  Thu Nov 29 05:57:46 2018
From: yoann at hibernate.org (Yoann Rodiere)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 11:57:46 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Hibernate Search 6.0.0.Alpha1 released
Message-ID: <CAEqagpoVxdEFjzSFwnaCPmpSi2Pez_HU+PMc1OybnCjdgNopwA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

We just published Hibernate Search 6.0.0.Alpha1, the first release for the
next major version of Hibernate Search.

This version is an early technology preview, so be sure to read about it on
our blog before you try it out:

http://in.relation.to/2018/11/29/hibernate-search-6-0-0-Alpha1/

Have a nice day,
Yoann Rodi?re
Hibernate NoORM Team
yoann at hibernate.org

From guillaume.smet at hibernate.org  Thu Nov 29 12:46:18 2018
From: guillaume.smet at hibernate.org (Guillaume Smet)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 18:46:18 +0100
Subject: [hibernate-dev] Hibernate ORM 5.4.0.CR2 released
Message-ID: <CALt0+o8hb5Ar61pN-2H6n_kwOTL8ym5UjugSssTMgoG36vOLrQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

We just released Hibernate ORM 5.4.0.CR2 with a few fixes on top of CR1.

More information in the announcement:
http://in.relation.to/2018/11/29/hibernate-orm-540-cr2-out/

Please test and report back if you have any issues.

Final should be released in the coming weeks.

Thanks!

-- 
Guillaume

From rory.odonnell at oracle.com  Fri Nov 30 07:04:23 2018
From: rory.odonnell at oracle.com (Rory O'Donnell)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 12:04:23 +0000
Subject: [hibernate-dev] JDK 12 build 22 is now available at : -
	jdk.java.net/12/
Message-ID: <a7ac3fa8-6920-426e-f075-506b4a523eef@oracle.com>

Hi Sanne,

*NOTE:- *The JDK 12 schedule <http://openjdk.java.net/projects/jdk/12/> 
rampdown phase 1 of the release is coming up in a few weeks on Dec. 13, 
2018.

**

*JDK 12 Early Access build 22 **is now available **at : - jdk.java.net/12/*

  * Release Note updates since last email *
    *
      o Build 21 - Deprecating the default keytool -keyalg value
        (JDK-8212003)
      o Build 21 - Change to X25519 and X448 encoded private key format
        (JDK-8213363)
      o Build 20 - New command-line flag for more extensive error
        reporting in crash logs? (JDK-8211845)
      o Build 20 -Initial Value of user.timezone System Property Changed
        (JDK-8185496)

  * JEPs proposed for JDK 12 :
      o JEP 189: Shenandoah: A Low-Pause-Time Garbage
        Collector(Experimental) <http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/189>
      o JEP 334: JVM Constants API <http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/334>
      o JEP 344: Abortable Mixed Collections for G1
        <http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/344>
      o JEP 346: Promptly Return Unused Committed Memory from G1
        <http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/346>

  * JEPs targeted to JDK 12, so far
      o JEP 230: Microbenchmark Suite <https://openjdk.java.net/jeps/230>
      o JEP 325: Switch Expressions (Preview)
        <http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/325>
      o JEP 326: Raw String Literals (Preview)
        <http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/326>
      o JEP 340: One AArch64 Port, Not Two
        <http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/340>
      o JEP 341: Default CDS Archives <http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/341>

Rgds,Rory

-- 
Rgds,Rory O'Donnell
Quality Engineering Manager
Oracle EMEA , Dublin, Ireland