[hibernate-dev] Chat migration - D minus 115 until the death of HipChat
Gunnar Morling
gunnar at hibernate.org
Mon Nov 12 05:31:11 EST 2018
I'm just on their website, e.g. https://gitter.im/debezium/dev.
There's an icon with three sliders in the upper right corner, next to
my own profile picture. "Notifications" let me choose when I'd like to
have a sound, e.g. never, just for direction mentions or for general
mentions in a room.
Am Mo., 12. Nov. 2018 um 11:28 Uhr schrieb Guillaume Smet
<guillaume.smet at gmail.com>:
>
> Are you using the webapp?
>
> Because I don't see any preference to enable sound and there is no sound at all when I get a notification.
>
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:21 AM Gunnar Morling <gunnar at hibernate.org> wrote:
>>
>> Have you tried "Room Settings" -> "Notifications"? We're on Gitter for
>> Debezium, too, and in fact the notifications were too noisy for me, so
>> I turned them off :)
>>
>> --Gunnar
>>
>> Am Mo., 12. Nov. 2018 um 10:59 Uhr schrieb Guillaume Smet
>> <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>:
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > So, one thing I find particularly annoying with Gitter now that we are
>> > trying to use it for real interactions is the lack of notification sounds
>> > in the webapp. When you're focused on your work, it's really easy to miss
>> > the visual ones and having a sound really helped on HipChat.
>> >
>> > There is an open issue here:
>> > https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitter/webapp/issues/735 .
>> >
>> > AFAICS in the commit log, there's one person working on Gitter and it's not
>> > making tremendous progress.
>> >
>> > (Yeah, I know, it's Open Source, I can contribute...)
>> >
>> > --
>> > Guillaume
>> >
>> > On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 3:47 PM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi,
>> > >
>> > > TL;DR: I created the Gitter rooms. Let's all go there for a few days, at
>> > > least to try it?
>> > >
>> > > *Connecting*
>> > >
>> > > Obviously you can just connect to https://gitter.im/ and use the browser.
>> > > You can sign in with your Github, Gitlab or Twitter account.
>> > >
>> > > There are also desktop/mobile applications. https://gitter.im/apps
>> > > They only provide .deb packages, though, and I wasn't able to convert them
>> > > easily using alien (I didn't try very hard). There is a snap out there, but
>> > > it's an old version that isn't allow to use the Gitter APIs anymore.
>> > >
>> > > If you prefer to use IRC, they apparently provide a bridge. I don't know
>> > > what it's worth, but you can always give it a try: see
>> > > https://irc.gitter.im/ .
>> > >
>> > > *What's next?*
>> > >
>> > > Let's try to use it for a few days, see if everyone is comfortable with it?
>> > > Let's see if there isn't any blocker for anyone, and if the news from other
>> > > projects (such as WildFly moving to Slack) don't make use change our minds.
>> > >
>> > > Then if everyone is okay with it, we can finalize everything:
>> > >
>> > > - Invite external people to our rooms (I didn't invite anyone except our
>> > > own team)
>> > > - Advertise Gitter as our main chat platform:
>> > > - On our websites
>> > > - On IRC (we should at least mention it in the "message of the day")
>> > > - On the hibernate-announce mailing list
>> > > - In the REAME file of our projects through a badge: [](
>> > > https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-room-id
>> > > ?utm_source=badge&utm_medium=badge&utm_campaign=pr-badge)
>> > > - Close the HipChat rooms somehow.
>> > >
>> > > *Available rooms*
>> > >
>> > > For each of our main projects, I created one room bound to the GitHub
>> > > repository for users, and *one *-dev room for our own use*.
>> > > I also created rooms based on what I could see in HipChat (branding, ...).
>> > >
>> > > You can find a list of all rooms here: https://gitter.im/hibernate/home
>> > >
>> > > I already added people according to which room they were member of in
>> > > HipChat, but I may have missed some. Please check which room you are
>> > > subscribed to.
>> > >
>> > > *Settings*
>> > >
>> > > You can configure how often you want to be notified for each room: go to
>> > > the room, click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the top
>> > > right, then "Notifications".
>> > > In this same popup, you have the option of setting general defaults.
>> > >
>> > > Also, a dark theme is available: click on your avatar on the top right,
>> > > then "Toggle Dark Theme".
>> > >
>> > > That's pretty much it.
>> > >
>> > > *Configuring your rooms*
>> > >
>> > > I configured the main rooms to receive Github notifications on the
>> > > "activity tab" to the right, as well as Jenkins notifications for the
>> > > "master" and "PR" job (when I found it). Feel free to add more integration
>> > > if you want to.
>> > >
>> > > How to add a Jenkins integration:
>> > >
>> > > - If your room doesn't have a Jenkins integration yet (most have):
>> > > - Go to the room on Gitter
>> > > - Click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the top
>> > > right, then "Integrations".
>> > > - Select "Jenkins"
>> > > - Select the events you want to be notified of
>> > > - Copy the webhook URL near the bottom
>> > > - Create new credentials on Jenkins:
>> > >
>> > > http://ci.hibernate.org/credentials/store/system/domain/_/newCredentials
>> > > - In the "Kind" field, select "Secret text"
>> > > - Leave the "Scope" to "Global"
>> > > - In the "Secret" field, paste the webhook URL
>> > > - In the "ID" field, put "gitter-webhook-url-<ID of your room>"
>> > > - In the "description" field, put "Gitter webhook URL for the <ID
>> > > of your room> room"
>> > > - Click "OK"
>> > > - For each Jenkins job:
>> > > - On the job page in Jenkins, click "Configure"
>> > > - Select the "Job Notifications" tab near the top
>> > > - Click "Add endpoint"
>> > > - Leave the format to "JSON" and the protocol to "HTTP"
>> > > - Set "URL Source" to "Credentials Store"
>> > > - In the "URL" box, select the entry corresponding to your room,
>> > > which should normally appear as "Gitter webhook URL for the <ID of
>> > > your room> room"
>> > > - Click "Save"
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Hibernate NoORM Team
>> > > yoann at hibernate.org
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 at 11:40, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > I think all day-to-day users of our chat voted. Here are the results:
>> > > >
>> > > > IRC: 4 Yes, 5 "if need be", 6 no.
>> > > > Slack: 5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no
>> > > > Zulip: 5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no
>> > > > Gitter: 10 Yes, 1 "if need be", 4 no
>> > > >
>> > > > It seems Gitter won. That's the only option with more "Yes" than "No"...
>> > > > It's got the most "Yes" (even counting "if need be"), and perhaps more
>> > > > importantly it's got the least amount of "no".
>> > > >
>> > > > To those who voted no: if you have specific concerns about Gitter, could
>> > > > you please mention them here? Maybe we can find solutions to some of the
>> > > > problems.
>> > > >
>> > > > I'll look into moving the Hibernate Search chat to Gitter and will report
>> > > > back on this thread.
>> > > >
>> > > > Yoann Rodière
>> > > > Hibernate NoORM Team
>> > > > yoann at hibernate.org
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 at 08:25, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >> Not everyone voted, far from it; we're missing votes from Gail,
>> > > >> Guillaume, Fabio, Chris, Davide, Emmanuel, Koen. So no, no consensus
>> > > yet.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> I sent an email to them off-list, perhaps they didn't see this thread.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Provisional results are as follows:
>> > > >>
>> > > >> IRC: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no
>> > > >> Slack: 2 Yes, 2 "if need be", 4 no
>> > > >> Zulip: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no
>> > > >> Gitter: 6 Yes, 0 "if need be", 2 no
>> > > >>
>> > > >> So Gitter seems on the verge of winning, but apparently some people are
>> > > >> categorically against it, so I'd say we'll have to give them a chance to
>> > > >> explain why. I'll wait for everyone to answer, though, since they could
>> > > >> completely change the results.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Yoann Rodière
>> > > >> Hibernate NoORM Team
>> > > >> yoann at hibernate.org
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 13:35, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >>> Any consensus on this yet?
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:21 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
>> > > >>> wrote:
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>> Thanks for starting this!
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> The choice of IRC is a bit special on the list as we never intended it
>> > > >>>> to be killed: it has been historically important and we should
>> > > >>>> maintain some level of reachability on it. So voting for the "IRC"
>> > > >>>> choice just means a preference to not use anything else on top of it,
>> > > >>>> while alternatively we'' be using X on top of IRC, albeit with a
>> > > >>>> preference to use X for team conversations.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Also good to remind: please try to be on IRC as well occasionally as
>> > > >>>> many in the OSS community we integrate with will reach out there.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Thanks,
>> > > >>>> Sanne
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 at 09:46, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
>> > > >>>> wrote:
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > Hi,
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > TL;DR: please vote here if you don't want to end up having to use a
>> > > >>>> chat
>> > > >>>> > tool you don't like: https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > HipChat Cloud will stop working on February 15th, 2019 [1]. We need
>> > > to
>> > > >>>> > choose an alternative before we have our back against the wall, so
>> > > >>>> I'll try
>> > > >>>> > to resurrect the conversation.
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > As a reminder, Stride is no longer an option: Atlassian cancelled
>> > > the
>> > > >>>> > project, and encourages users to migrate to Slack.
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > The discussed options so far were:
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > - *Moving back to IRC*. Aye: ?; nay: ?
>> > > >>>> > Pros: simple as hell.
>> > > >>>> > Cons: basic as hell; we won't keep the chat history.
>> > > >>>> > - *Migrating to Slack* [6], as suggested by Atlassian [2]. Aye:
>> > > >>>> > Christian B; Nay: ?
>> > > >>>> > Pros: we will keep the chat history (I think).
>> > > >>>> > Cons: not open-source; desktop client consumes a lot of
>> > > resources.
>> > > >>>> > - *Migrating to Zulip* [3]. Aye: Emmanuel, Yoann. Nay: Guillaume
>> > > >>>> (kind
>> > > >>>> > of).
>> > > >>>> > Pros: Advanced conversation management thanks to the "topics"
>> > > >>>> feature.
>> > > >>>> > Cons: Complex to use because of the "topics" feature; we won't
>> > > >>>> keep the
>> > > >>>> > chat history (1).
>> > > >>>> > - *Migrating to Gitter* [5] (we'll create different rooms,
>> > > >>>> probably).
>> > > >>>> > Aye: ?, Nay: ?
>> > > >>>> > Pros: Users seem to actually go there, so we could have our "live
>> > > >>>> > support" rooms next to our "internal discussion" rooms.
>> > > >>>> > Cons: not open-source; we won't keep the chat history (1).
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > I created a poll based on the discussion we had on the thread
>> > > >>>> > "[hibernate-dev] Stride". I think everyone had the time to suggest
>> > > >>>> another
>> > > >>>> > option.
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > Please vote here and now, or remain silent forever ;):
>> > > >>>> > https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > I'd suggest the following rules: if there's a single clear winner (a
>> > > >>>> > platform that everyone would be happy with), we'll pick that one. If
>> > > >>>> there
>> > > >>>> > are multiple clear winners, whoever does the migration work will
>> > > pick
>> > > >>>> > what's easier to set up (taking into account the various
>> > > >>>> integrations).
>> > > >>>> > Otherwise, back to discussing it on this thread...
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > (1) There seems to be some work in progress on a migration tool from
>> > > >>>> > HipChat to Zulip, but it doesn't seem to be ready yet [4]
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > [1]
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>>
>> > > https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/faq#faq-da2b66a1-53d3-4c4e-a405-467d961336f7
>> > > >>>> > [2] https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/migration
>> > > >>>> > [3] https://hibernate.zulipchat.com/
>> > > >>>> > [4] https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/10647
>> > > >>>> > [5] https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-orm
>> > > >>>> > [6] https://slackdemo.com/
>> > > >>>> >
>> > > >>>> > Yoann Rodière
>> > > >>>> > Hibernate NoORM Team
>> > > >>>> > yoann at hibernate.org
>> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________
>> > > >>>> > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > > >>>> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> > > >>>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________
>> > > >>>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > > >>>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> > > >>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>
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