[hibernate-dev] Chat migration - D minus 115 until the death of HipChat

Sanne Grinovero sanne at hibernate.org
Mon Nov 12 11:17:51 EST 2018 

The easy way to install Gitter natively on Fedora:

> flatpak install flathub im.gitter.Gitter

Or you can do it via browser:

Click on the main link here, then open and confirm install:
https://flatpak.org/setup/Fedora/

Same again on:
https://flathub.org/apps/details/im.gitter.Gitter


On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 10:38, Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It's not about having a sound, it's about having a notification e.g. if you
> don't enable the OS sounds, you don't have a sound.
>
> E.g. I think it's your Mac notification framework that produces the sound.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:31 AM Gunnar Morling <gunnar at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
>
> > I'm just on their website, e.g. https://gitter.im/debezium/dev.
> > There's an icon with three sliders in the upper right corner, next to
> > my own profile picture. "Notifications" let me choose when I'd like to
> > have a sound, e.g. never, just for direction mentions or for general
> > mentions in a room.
> > Am Mo., 12. Nov. 2018 um 11:28 Uhr schrieb Guillaume Smet
> > <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>:
> > >
> > > Are you using the webapp?
> > >
> > > Because I don't see any preference to enable sound and there is no sound
> > at all when I get a notification.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:21 AM Gunnar Morling <gunnar at hibernate.org>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Have you tried "Room Settings" -> "Notifications"? We're on Gitter for
> > >> Debezium, too, and in fact the notifications were too noisy for me, so
> > >> I turned them off :)
> > >>
> > >> --Gunnar
> > >>
> > >> Am Mo., 12. Nov. 2018 um 10:59 Uhr schrieb Guillaume Smet
> > >> <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>:
> > >> >
> > >> > Hi,
> > >> >
> > >> > So, one thing I find particularly annoying with Gitter now that we are
> > >> > trying to use it for real interactions is the lack of notification
> > sounds
> > >> > in the webapp. When you're focused on your work, it's really easy to
> > miss
> > >> > the visual ones and having a sound really helped on HipChat.
> > >> >
> > >> > There is an open issue here:
> > >> > https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitter/webapp/issues/735 .
> > >> >
> > >> > AFAICS in the commit log, there's one person working on Gitter and
> > it's not
> > >> > making tremendous progress.
> > >> >
> > >> > (Yeah, I know, it's Open Source, I can contribute...)
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > Guillaume
> > >> >
> > >> > On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 3:47 PM Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Hi,
> > >> > >
> > >> > > TL;DR: I created the Gitter rooms. Let's all go there for a few
> > days, at
> > >> > > least to try it?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > *Connecting*
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Obviously you can just connect to https://gitter.im/ and use the
> > browser.
> > >> > > You can sign in with your Github, Gitlab or Twitter account.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > There are also desktop/mobile applications. https://gitter.im/apps
> > >> > > They only provide .deb packages, though, and I wasn't able to
> > convert them
> > >> > > easily using alien (I didn't try very hard). There is a snap out
> > there, but
> > >> > > it's an old version that isn't allow to use the Gitter APIs anymore.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > If you prefer to use IRC, they apparently provide a bridge. I don't
> > know
> > >> > > what it's worth, but you can always give it a try: see
> > >> > > https://irc.gitter.im/ .
> > >> > >
> > >> > > *What's next?*
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Let's try to use it for a few days, see if everyone is comfortable
> > with it?
> > >> > > Let's see if there isn't any blocker for anyone, and if the news
> > from other
> > >> > > projects (such as WildFly moving to Slack) don't make use change
> > our minds.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Then if everyone is okay with it, we can finalize everything:
> > >> > >
> > >> > >    - Invite external people to our rooms (I didn't invite anyone
> > except our
> > >> > >    own team)
> > >> > >    - Advertise Gitter as our main chat platform:
> > >> > >    - On our websites
> > >> > >       - On IRC (we should at least mention it in the "message of
> > the day")
> > >> > >       - On the hibernate-announce mailing list
> > >> > >       - In the REAME file of our projects through a badge:
> > [![Gitter](
> > >> > >       https://badges.gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-room-id.svg)](
> > >> > >       https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-room-id
> > >> > >       ?utm_source=badge&utm_medium=badge&utm_campaign=pr-badge)
> > >> > >    - Close the HipChat rooms somehow.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > *Available rooms*
> > >> > >
> > >> > > For each of our main projects, I created one room bound to the
> > GitHub
> > >> > > repository for users, and *one *-dev room for our own use*.
> > >> > > I also created rooms based on what I could see in HipChat
> > (branding, ...).
> > >> > >
> > >> > > You can find a list of all rooms here:
> > https://gitter.im/hibernate/home
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I already added people according to which room they were member of
> > in
> > >> > > HipChat, but I may have missed some. Please check which room you are
> > >> > > subscribed to.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > *Settings*
> > >> > >
> > >> > > You can configure how often you want to be notified for each room:
> > go to
> > >> > > the room, click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the
> > top
> > >> > > right, then "Notifications".
> > >> > > In this same popup, you have the option of setting general defaults.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Also, a dark theme is available: click on your avatar on the top
> > right,
> > >> > > then "Toggle Dark Theme".
> > >> > >
> > >> > > That's pretty much it.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > *Configuring your rooms*
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I configured the main rooms to  receive Github notifications on the
> > >> > > "activity tab" to the right, as well as Jenkins notifications for
> > the
> > >> > > "master" and "PR" job (when I found it). Feel free to add more
> > integration
> > >> > > if you want to.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > How to add a Jenkins integration:
> > >> > >
> > >> > >    - If your room doesn't have a Jenkins integration yet (most
> > have):
> > >> > >    - Go to the room on Gitter
> > >> > >       - Click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the
> > top
> > >> > >       right, then "Integrations".
> > >> > >       - Select "Jenkins"
> > >> > >       - Select the events you want to be notified of
> > >> > >       - Copy the webhook URL near the bottom
> > >> > >       - Create new credentials on Jenkins:
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > http://ci.hibernate.org/credentials/store/system/domain/_/newCredentials
> > >> > >          - In the "Kind" field, select "Secret text"
> > >> > >          - Leave the "Scope" to "Global"
> > >> > >          - In the "Secret" field, paste the webhook URL
> > >> > >          - In the "ID" field, put "gitter-webhook-url-<ID of your
> > room>"
> > >> > >          - In the "description" field, put "Gitter webhook URL for
> > the <ID
> > >> > >          of your room> room"
> > >> > >          - Click "OK"
> > >> > >          - For each Jenkins job:
> > >> > >       - On the job page in Jenkins, click "Configure"
> > >> > >       - Select the "Job Notifications" tab near the top
> > >> > >       - Click "Add endpoint"
> > >> > >       - Leave the format to "JSON" and the protocol to "HTTP"
> > >> > >       - Set "URL Source" to "Credentials Store"
> > >> > >       - In the "URL" box, select the entry corresponding to your
> > room,
> > >> > >       which should normally appear as "Gitter webhook URL for the
> > <ID of
> > >> > >       your room> room"
> > >> > >       - Click "Save"
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > >> > > yoann at hibernate.org
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 at 11:40, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
> > wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > I think all day-to-day users of our chat voted. Here are the
> > results:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > IRC:     4 Yes, 5 "if need be", 6 no.
> > >> > > > Slack:   5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no
> > >> > > > Zulip:   5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no
> > >> > > > Gitter: 10 Yes, 1 "if need be", 4 no
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > It seems Gitter won. That's the only option with more "Yes" than
> > "No"...
> > >> > > > It's got the most "Yes" (even counting "if need be"), and perhaps
> > more
> > >> > > > importantly it's got the least amount of "no".
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > To those who voted no: if you have specific concerns about
> > Gitter, could
> > >> > > > you please mention them here? Maybe we can find solutions to some
> > of the
> > >> > > > problems.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > I'll look into moving the Hibernate Search chat to Gitter and
> > will report
> > >> > > > back on this thread.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Yoann Rodière
> > >> > > > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > >> > > > yoann at hibernate.org
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 at 08:25, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org>
> > wrote:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >> Not everyone voted, far from it; we're missing votes from Gail,
> > >> > > >> Guillaume, Fabio, Chris, Davide, Emmanuel, Koen. So no, no
> > consensus
> > >> > > yet.
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> I sent an email to them off-list, perhaps they didn't see this
> > thread.
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> Provisional results are as follows:
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> IRC: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no
> > >> > > >> Slack: 2 Yes, 2 "if need be", 4 no
> > >> > > >> Zulip: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no
> > >> > > >> Gitter: 6 Yes, 0 "if need be", 2 no
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> So Gitter seems on the verge of winning, but apparently some
> > people are
> > >> > > >> categorically against it, so I'd say we'll have to give them a
> > chance to
> > >> > > >> explain why. I'll wait for everyone to answer, though, since
> > they could
> > >> > > >> completely change the results.
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> Yoann Rodière
> > >> > > >> Hibernate NoORM Team
> > >> > > >> yoann at hibernate.org
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 13:35, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org
> > >
> > >> > > wrote:
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>> Any consensus on this yet?
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:21 AM Sanne Grinovero <
> > sanne at hibernate.org>
> > >> > > >>> wrote:
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>>> Thanks for starting this!
> > >> > > >>>>
> > >> > > >>>> The choice of IRC is a bit special on the list as we never
> > intended it
> > >> > > >>>> to be killed: it has been historically important and we should
> > >> > > >>>> maintain some level of reachability on it.  So voting for the
> > "IRC"
> > >> > > >>>> choice just means a preference to not use anything else on top
> > of it,
> > >> > > >>>> while alternatively we'' be using X on top of IRC, albeit with
> > a
> > >> > > >>>> preference to use X for team conversations.
> > >> > > >>>>
> > >> > > >>>> Also good to remind: please try to be on IRC as well
> > occasionally as
> > >> > > >>>> many in the OSS community we integrate with will reach out
> > there.
> > >> > > >>>>
> > >> > > >>>> Thanks,
> > >> > > >>>> Sanne
> > >> > > >>>>
> > >> > > >>>> On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 at 09:46, Yoann Rodiere <
> > yoann at hibernate.org>
> > >> > > >>>> wrote:
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>> > Hi,
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>> > TL;DR: please vote here if you don't want to end up having
> > to use a
> > >> > > >>>> chat
> > >> > > >>>> > tool you don't like:
> > https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>> > HipChat Cloud will stop working on February 15th, 2019 [1].
> > We need
> > >> > > to
> > >> > > >>>> > choose an alternative before we have our back against the
> > wall, so
> > >> > > >>>> I'll try
> > >> > > >>>> > to resurrect the conversation.
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>> > As a reminder, Stride is no longer an option: Atlassian
> > cancelled
> > >> > > the
> > >> > > >>>> > project, and encourages users to migrate to Slack.
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>> > The discussed options so far were:
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>> >    - *Moving back to IRC*. Aye: ?; nay: ?
> > >> > > >>>> >    Pros: simple as hell.
> > >> > > >>>> >    Cons: basic as hell; we won't keep the chat history.
> > >> > > >>>> >    - *Migrating to Slack* [6], as suggested by Atlassian
> > [2]. Aye:
> > >> > > >>>> >    Christian B; Nay: ?
> > >> > > >>>> >    Pros: we will keep the chat history (I think).
> > >> > > >>>> >    Cons: not open-source; desktop client consumes a lot of
> > >> > > resources.
> > >> > > >>>> >    - *Migrating to Zulip* [3]. Aye: Emmanuel, Yoann. Nay:
> > Guillaume
> > >> > > >>>> (kind
> > >> > > >>>> >    of).
> > >> > > >>>> >    Pros: Advanced conversation management thanks to the
> > "topics"
> > >> > > >>>> feature.
> > >> > > >>>> >    Cons: Complex to use because of the "topics" feature; we
> > won't
> > >> > > >>>> keep the
> > >> > > >>>> >    chat history (1).
> > >> > > >>>> >    - *Migrating to Gitter* [5] (we'll create different rooms,
> > >> > > >>>> probably).
> > >> > > >>>> >    Aye: ?, Nay: ?
> > >> > > >>>> >    Pros: Users seem to actually go there, so we could have
> > our "live
> > >> > > >>>> >    support" rooms next to our "internal discussion" rooms.
> > >> > > >>>> >    Cons: not open-source; we won't keep the chat history (1).
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>> > I created a poll based on the discussion we had on the thread
> > >> > > >>>> > "[hibernate-dev] Stride". I think everyone had the time to
> > suggest
> > >> > > >>>> another
> > >> > > >>>> > option.
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>> > Please vote here and now, or remain silent forever ;):
> > >> > > >>>> > https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>> > I'd suggest the following rules: if there's a single clear
> > winner (a
> > >> > > >>>> > platform that everyone would be happy with), we'll pick that
> > one. If
> > >> > > >>>> there
> > >> > > >>>> > are multiple clear winners, whoever does the migration work
> > will
> > >> > > pick
> > >> > > >>>> > what's easier to set up (taking into account the various
> > >> > > >>>> integrations).
> > >> > > >>>> > Otherwise, back to discussing it on this thread...
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>> > (1) There seems to be some work in progress on a migration
> > tool from
> > >> > > >>>> > HipChat to Zulip, but it doesn't seem to be ready yet [4]
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>> > [1]
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>>
> > >> > >
> > https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/faq#faq-da2b66a1-53d3-4c4e-a405-467d961336f7
> > >> > > >>>> > [2] https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/migration
> > >> > > >>>> > [3] https://hibernate.zulipchat.com/
> > >> > > >>>> > [4] https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/10647
> > >> > > >>>> > [5] https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-orm
> > >> > > >>>> > [6] https://slackdemo.com/
> > >> > > >>>> >
> > >> > > >>>> > Yoann Rodière
> > >> > > >>>> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > >> > > >>>> > yoann at hibernate.org
> > >> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > > >>>> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > >> > > >>>> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > >> > > >>>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> > >> > > >>>>
> > >> > > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >> > > >>>> hibernate-dev mailing list
> > >> > > >>>> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > >> > > >>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > _______________________________________________
> > >> > > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > >> > > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > >> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > >> > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > >> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >
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