[hibernate-dev] Chat migration - D minus 115 until the death of HipChat

Yoann Rodiere yoann at hibernate.org
Tue Nov 13 05:33:02 EST 2018


Copying a discussion from another thread in another mailing list:

Gunnar Morling:

I'm big -1 on Slack as long as it requires people to have a pay-for-license
> to get hold of the history for anything longer back than a few days
> (depending on traffic in chat rooms). This equates to loosing parts of our
> organizational memory unless paying ransom to Slack. Even if we manage to
> get some license for ourselves (dunno whether they have some OSS program),
> other users will be faced with the same problem, IIUC.
>

Guillaume Smet:

So Slack is by far the best UI to my taste (and it has sound in the webapp
> \o/).
>
> But:
> - there's no GitHub/Google authentication and it's always good to have to
> get external people in. Creating a new account is often an obstacle.
> - the history limit is a no-no. And I don't think we will have budget to
> pay for a paid instance. I don't see any specific plans for Open Source
> organizations.
>
> Not sure how Kabir planned to live with the history limit, I'll ask him.
>


On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 at 08:49, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:

> > Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it might be too
> successful as well
>
> Ok. Well, I guess we'll see. As I mentioned above, I don't think forcing
> people to have a GitHub account will be very effective, but I can't suggest
> a perfect solution either. Bots answering with a few links (documentation,
> etc.) to the first message of each user come to mind, but that could be
> considered rude, so I wouldn't do that unless the traffic becomes
> unmanageable. Other solutions include kicking out "spammers" (but that
> doesn't work if it's many users asking a single question), or making the
> -dev rooms invite-only and only checking the user rooms once in a while
> (might work if Gitter sends emails when your are mentioned while offline).
> So, yeah, in short: I don't really know.
>
> > More just accountability.  But if some form of login in needed to use
> Gitter, that's enough for me.  Sounded like the other option was "allow
> anonymous", which I wanted to avoid.
>
> Then it should be fine: anonymous access apparently only allows to read
> messages. Login through GitLab, GitHub or Twitter is necessary in order to
> start posting new messages.
>
> Yoann Rodière
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yoann at hibernate.org
>
>
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 19:34, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:
>
>> For me its not so much about "the right kind of people".  More just
>> accountability.  But if some form of login in needed to use Gitter, that's
>> enough for me.  Sounded like the other option was "allow anonymous", which
>> I wanted to avoid.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:41 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 17:27, Yoann Rodiere <yoann at hibernate.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I don't see why we should force people to have a GitHub account,
>>> considering there are other means of logging into Gitter.
>>>
>>> Ok.
>>>
>>> >
>>> > As to getting the right type of people, I'm not sure it's relevant.
>>> Most people are likely to have one, and those who don't are likely to not
>>> have one for political reasons (think free software extremists) rather than
>>> because they aren't tech savvy enough: while the "hibernate" naming might
>>> confuse users looking for information about grizzly bears, I doubt my
>>> grandmother, my 7-year-old nephew or even my non-software-engineer of a
>>> wife would end up on Gitter by mistake.
>>>
>>> Well since that's obvious, clearly I was referring to a different way
>>> of cathegorizing people joining@ not by age or expertise in technology
>>> but in having reasonable expectations and willing to do some research
>>> before bothering us all.
>>>
>>> You probably weren't around yet, but Hibernate has had hard times in
>>> which it was "victim of its own success": just too many
>>> kinda-interested people making a ton of basic questions that could be
>>> easily solved otherwise.
>>>
>>> Some "barriers" we have in place have made it manageable; of course I
>>> can't tell if it's all merit of the barriers of entry or just people
>>> coming in lower volumes with better intentions, but I'm confident that
>>> some of the barriers we have have helped to keep some sanity (e.g.
>>> login on #hibernate-dev on IRC requiring an account).
>>>
>>> Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it might be
>>> too successful as well.  But I guess we'll see, or let's use a very
>>> bad chat platform so to keep people from coming :P
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Yoann Rodière
>>> > Hibernate NoORM Team
>>> > yoann at hibernate.org
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 18:02, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 16:02, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > What is it a conscious decision to not require a GitHub account to
>>> join these rooms?  I just noticed that is a toggle-option in the room's
>>> settings also.
>>> >>
>>> >> I don't remember. We created these rooms as an experiment in 2014..
>>> >> Yoann created some more rooms recently.
>>> >>
>>> >> Should we enforce people to have a Github account? I'd like that, I
>>> >> think it would better nudge towards getting the right type of people
>>> >> to join.
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks,
>>> >> Sanne
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 6:17 AM Guillaume Smet <
>>> guillaume.smet at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:35 AM Sanne Grinovero <
>>> sanne at hibernate.org>
>>> >> >> wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> > If one wants a lot of features then clearly only Slack is the
>>> way to
>>> >> >> > go. Not saying we should go with Slack, just that we'll need to
>>> be
>>> >> >> > patient and we'll always be short of some features - if that's
>>> not
>>> >> >> > acceptable then only Slack will make you happy.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> TBH, I don't care about fancy features. Gitter is OK for me but
>>> yeah not
>>> >> >> having sound is really annoying.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I might miss notifications from time to time.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> In any case, it will mostly be a problem for you all if you ping
>>> me :).
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> > BTW the issue you linked to suggests the native clients don't
>>> have
>>> >> >> > this specific problem.. might want to try that?
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I prefer to have it in the browser where I do most of my
>>> interactions with
>>> >> >> people.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> And AFAIK, Yoann wrote they were only packaged as deb (and not
>>> very excited
>>> >> >> about compiling it).
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> BTW, tbh, I'm a bit worried GitLab has only one dev on it if they
>>> want to
>>> >> >> become a player in this area. They certainly have some work to do
>>> to catch
>>> >> >> up with others.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> --
>>> >> >> Guillaume
>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
>>> >> >> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>> >> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
>>> >> hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>>
>>


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