[jboss-as7-dev] JMX [was: Dear subsystem owners/components leads ....]

Fri Aug 19 16:12:23 EDT 2011

I understand where you are coming from, but if JMX was actually able to do everything we needed from a management perspective, we would have built the new management API based on it. The fact is, it doesn't meet the need. Brian Stansberry even looked at this as a possibility early in the development cycle. I remember having a conversation about it on our bi-weekly Andiamo call. 

We need one supportable management API, not two, and one that actually works for the complexity involved in all the use cases we have to support. 

Yes, the transition will be a hard one, but its a necessary step we have to take in order to actually meet customers management needs. This has been a long time in the works, and this has all been considered. 

Andy 

----- Original Message -----

> From: "Eduardo Martins" <emmartins at gmail.com>
> To: "Andrig Miller" <anmiller at redhat.com>
> Cc: "Brian Stansberry" <brian.stansberry at redhat.com>,
> jboss-as7-dev at lists.jboss.org
> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 1:06:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [jboss-as7-dev] JMX [was: Dear subsystem
> owners/components leads ....]

> Andy, that's our point of view, what about user/customers and
> integrators point of view? This is a new management API, yet
> management interfaces are not new, 3rd parties used something else
> before, very high chances it is JMX, do you really want to enforce
> the
> new management API as a condition to use AS7?

> -- Eduardo
> ..............................................
> http://emmartins.blogspot.com
> http://redhat.com/solutions/telco

> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 7:14 PM, Andrig Miller <anmiller at redhat.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: "Brian Stansberry" <brian.stansberry at redhat.com>
> > To: jboss-as7-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 11:52:40 AM
> > Subject: Re: [jboss-as7-dev] JMX [was: Dear subsystem
> > owners/components
> > leads ....]
> >
> > What kind of extensibility are you thinking about?
> >
> > I have no objection at all to the kind of simple JMX gateway
> > resource
> > David describes. If someone in the community wants to contribute
> > that,
> > that would be great.
> >
> > I would object to it though if its presence became an excuse for
> > subsystems not exposing their full management API via the standard
> > management model. ;)
> >
> > That's exactly the slippery slope I don't want us to go down! From
> > an
> > Andiamo perspective, we need ONE management layer that handles
> > everything.
> >
> > Let's keep this on track.
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > On 8/19/11 12:02 PM, Eduardo Martins wrote:
> >> The JMX exposure in CLI and Web Console can be basic, like I
> >> mentioned, but should be easy extendable, so the community may
> >> enhance
> >> it, if there is interest...
> >>
> >> -- Eduardo
> >> ..............................................
> >> http://emmartins.blogspot.com
> >> http://redhat.com/solutions/telco
> >>
> >> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 5:52 PM, David M.
> >> Lloyd<david.lloyd at redhat.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>> What Brian is saying is that we will not map arbitrary JMX
> >>> objects to
> >>> the management mode.
> >>>
> >>> I think it might make sense though - eventually - to have a JMX
> >>> resource
> >>> which has operations for calling into JMX (for open mbean types
> >>> only of
> >>> course). Note that this would NOT be a mapping, just a single
> >>> management resource which is a gateway to JMX, and apart from
> >>> accessing
> >>> attributes and invoking operations, no other JMX functions would
> >>> be
> >>> supported (in particular, notifications).
> >>>
> >>> On 08/19/2011 11:29 AM, Eduardo Martins wrote:
> >>>> It was and still is my biggest complain with AS7, the support
> >>>> for the
> >>>> official java management spec is ... zero!
> >>>>
> >>>> IMHO the CLI should have an easy way to invoke a JMX operation,
> >>>> whatever the MBean, how hard can it be when previous AS releases
> >>>> had
> >>>> twiddle? And the JMX subsystem should have a module in the
> >>>> management
> >>>> console, providing access to the MBeans in the JVM MBean server,
> >>>> relying on JConsole is not good nowadays, not all OSes have it,
> >>>> again
> >>>> we already had such tool...
> >>>>
> >>>> -- Eduardo
> >>>> ..............................................
> >>>> http://emmartins.blogspot.com
> >>>> http://redhat.com/solutions/telco
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 4:35 PM,<ssilvert at redhat.com> wrote:
> >>>>> Quoting Scott Marlow<smarlow at redhat.com>:
> >>>>>> Heiko,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Some of the JPA persistence providers support JMX for
> >>>>>> administrative
> >>>>>> operations (Hibernate statistics for example). Do we have any
> >>>>>> magic
> >>>>>> way
> >>>>>> to get JMX MBeans into the management console? Probably will
> >>>>>> need to
> >>>>>> be
> >>>>>> dynamic based on deployment time processing.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>> Scott
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Scott,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Heiko is out for the rest of this month, so I'm not sure if he
> >>>>> will be
> >>>>> able to answer.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Off hand, I don't think we currently have an easy way to
> >>>>> directly
> >>>>> access JMX from the console. There would be a lot of low level
> >>>>> transport stuff to deal with that we've already worked through
> >>>>> for the
> >>>>> management API. I doubt that we would want to go and build a
> >>>>> transport layer for JMX as well.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think the better question is can we (should we) expose JMX
> >>>>> through
> >>>>> the management API? If so it would be accessible from both the
> >>>>> console and the CLI.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Does anyone have thoughts about this?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Stan
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
> >>>>> jboss-as7-dev at lists.jboss.org
> >>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
> >>>> jboss-as7-dev at lists.jboss.org
> >>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> - DML
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
> >>> jboss-as7-dev at lists.jboss.org
> >>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
> >> jboss-as7-dev at lists.jboss.org
> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
> >
> >
> > --
> > Brian Stansberry
> > Principal Software Engineer
> > JBoss by Red Hat
> > _______________________________________________
> > jboss-as7-dev mailing list
> > jboss-as7-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > jboss-as7-dev mailing list
> > jboss-as7-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
> >
> >
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