[jbossws-dev] AS7: Re-thinking WS container integration

[Richard Opalka]

Comments inlined,

Rio

On 11/24/2010 03:14 PM, Alessio Soldano wrote:
> Hi Richard,
>
> [removed the section on records mngmt, as that's going OT - we'll get 
> back to that later and in any case -as said- it's not a priority]
ok
>
>>>
>>>>> *API REVIEW*
>>>>>
>>>>> In the process of revisiting the JBossWS SPI, we need to properly 
>>>>> split the current jbossws-spi project contents into:
>>>>> - a set of classes/interfaces required for proper abstraction of 
>>>>> jbossws components (pretty much what we have today, 2 stacks, 
>>>>> perhaps multiple supported target container[3], ...) and to have a 
>>>>> defined interface towards other related jboss projects (EJB3 for 
>>>>> instance)
>>>>>
>>>> This is what we have today. But I definitely agree this needs 
>>>> further/proper cleanup!
>>>> BTW there's EJB3 integration review on my plate. Hopefully this 
>>>> will be fixed with AS7 integration.
>>> Yes. This is one of the reason I'd like to get started with this 
>>> jbws 4 work asap, Carlo is needing any changes to the interface with 
>>> WS well before AS 7 goes Beta1 (as EJB3 is meant for Beta1 as far as 
>>> I understood)
>> I can do some EJB3 dependencies cleanup in AS 6 trunk to clarify it 
>> before AS 6 goes final?
>> Or I can use custom 3.4.0 JBossWS branches against AS CR1?
> Frankly, atm I'd say neither of the 2 options above. The jbws 3.4.0 
> branches are meant only for changes required due to last minute 
> changes in CXF 2.3.1. The trunk (aimed at 3.4.1) is just for the 
> minimun required to have in AS6 final the same good tck6 results we 
> have with AS 6 CR1. The freeze for AS 6 final is in few weeks from now 
> and the ejb3 team is not going to have time for dealing with jbws spi 
> changes for AS6.
> We're already reasoning in terms of AS7 / JBWS 4 here.
>
ok
>
>
>>> Please note that anything not really make use of the AS facilities 
>>> properly is not going to be pulled upstream
>> Well U need some JBossWS AS7 baseline first
>> which will help U to learn basic AS 7 architecture rapidly.
>> AS 7 team cannot expect/force others to be AS 7 experts first
>> (before contributing anything to AS7)
>> and doing "everything" right in first pull request.
> Sure, what I meant is that -oversimplifying this a bit- it's not 
> probably acceptable to have an initial integration that is just an 
> "adaptor" to AS7 of what we had in AS6, but the solution should be 
> thought in terms of the AS7 design. Things went differently in the 
> past -I know- but I wouldn't like to re-write the AS integration layer 
> in -let's say- 7.1 like we had to with AS 5.x.
Neither I. We need starting AS7 baseline first ASAP with some minimal 
staff working.
And then refactor, refactor, ..., refactor as quick as possible. U see 
what I mean, right?

> I'd rather have a proper solution from the beginning. Not saying it 
> needs to be perfect, but...
> Anyway, this is just philosophy at this point ;-)
>
I wanna proper solution too. I'm kinda thinking about some safe 
migration steps to AS7 without breaking many things against AS6 for some 
time ;)
>
>>> I'm just saying that we can see this similarly, we need to think 
>>> about the deployment process in terms of a) something strictly 
>>> related to setting up the container for the ws deployment, b) 
>>> actually creating the endpoint and connecting it to the container. 
>>> Theoretically speaking (b) is pretty much what is going to the 
>>> service. This said, for sure we need to deal with the details, but 
>>> that comes after agreeing on a vision.
>> My vision is to support both AS 6 (CR1 or GA) & AS 7 in JBossWS 4.0.x 
>> series.
>> This is very important to track integration regressions we might 
>> introduce during the AS 7 integration process.
>> And we need to come to an agreement what we'll target with JBossWS 4 
>> series ASAP ;)
> This is one of the key points to discuss. To be honest, I'm wondering 
> if the pain of supporting both AS 6 and 7 is balanced by any real 
> benefit here.
Well at the beginning we still need to do some cleanup in JBossWS 
integration.
This can go hand in hand with both AS 7 & AS 6 till the point disconnect 
will be obvious.
When we'll see there's no further way to continue supporting AS 6, we'll 
drop it.
The benefit would be U can still run TCK6 when U're connected with AS 6 
for some time ;)
I think this is BIG BENEFIT.
> Do you think we can really proceed in steps such that each of them 
> allows to still pass the testsuites (considering the major changes to 
> spi, the completely different AS structures, classloading, ...)?
Yes I believe (from AS6 POV). At least for some time ;)
 From AS7 POV no. But we need to be connected with AS 6
during the refactoring as long as possible.
> I can see major efforts being required for retro-fitting things to AS 
> 6, for supporting completely different installation steps, etc.
> This might even be possible, we need to evaluate pros and cons.
>
This is implementation detail we'll discover very soon.
I believe that this should be doable. Let's keep it optimistic ;)
>
>>> Regarding JAXRPC, it's legacy stuff, so it's acceptable to treat 
>>> that differently if we need to (meaning no domain / public available 
>>> service & api for that). Just the "minimum" required for certification.
>> Yes, but this legacy staff needs some minimal cleanup too.
> Yes, probably
>
> Cheers
> Alessio
> -- 
> Alessio Soldano
> Web Service Lead, JBoss
>
>
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-- 
Richard Opalka
ropalka at redhat.com
JBoss, by Red Hat

Office: +420 222 365 200
Mobile: +420 731 186 942

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