[keycloak-user] Authorization services without User Access token (Mqtt Broker / IoT)

Fri Aug 4 05:22:17 EDT 2017

Hi pedro,

Sorry for the delay to answer, but yes.

To familiarize myself with KC, it tried the approach you suggested in our
last discussion (MQTT Broker both a PDP and PEP) and it works. I'm still
considering the more «clean» approach but this gave an argument in favor of
adopting the tool (having a working solution) ... it tried several others
(WSO2 ...) and find KC more simple to understand and integrate.

We're currently deploying it in our qa environment to push our tests
further ...

On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 12:00 AM, Pedro Igor Silva <psilva at redhat.com> wrote:

> Hi Brahim,
>
> Are you still considering Keycloak and our Authorization Services in your
> architecture ?
>
> Regards.
> Pedro Igor
>
> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 4:41 AM, Schuster Sebastian (INST/ESY1) <
> Sebastian.Schuster at bosch-si.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Pedro,
>>
>> Since I saw you referring to "https://docs.kantarainitiativ
>> e.org/uma/ed/uma-core-2.0-08.html#seek-authorization": I think this is
>> not latest version of UMA2. They changed the naming of the spec parts and
>> IMHO https://docs.kantarainitiative.org/uma/ed/oauth-uma-grant-2.
>> 0-04.html and https://docs.kantarainitiative.org/uma/ed/oauth-uma-
>> federated-authz-2.0-04.html form the current spec. Just in case you did
>> not notice the change of names...
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Sebastian
>>
>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards
>>
>>  Sebastian Schuster
>>
>> Engineering and Support (INST/ESY1)
>> Bosch Software Innovations GmbH | Schöneberger Ufer 89-91 | 10785 Berlin
>> | GERMANY | www.bosch-si.com
>> Tel. +49 30 726112-485 | Fax +49 30 726112-100 |
>> Sebastian.Schuster at bosch-si.com
>>
>> Sitz: Berlin, Registergericht: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg; HRB 148411 B
>> Geschäftsführung: Dr.-Ing. Rainer Kallenbach, Michael Hahn
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: keycloak-user-bounces at lists.jboss.org [mailto:
>> keycloak-user-bounces at lists.jboss.org] On Behalf Of Pedro Igor Silva
>> Sent: Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 19:19
>> To: Brahim Ait elhaj <brahima at gmail.com>
>> Cc: keycloak-user <keycloak-user at lists.jboss.org>
>> Subject: Re: [keycloak-user] Authorization services without User Access
>> token (Mqtt Broker / IoT)
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 1:23 PM, Brahim Ait elhaj <brahima at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >> If a device is actually an user, who are your clients ? The same
>> devices ?
>> >>
>> >
>> > My client is the MQTT Server in this use case (as the
>> > *photoz-restful-api* in the *photoz* example).
>> > I want to protect access to MQTT topics (paths/resources) of this MQTT
>> > server.
>> >
>> > I was initially asking myself whereas devices should be « users » or «
>> > clients » but we could end with a lot of clients in the latter scenario
>> ...
>> > also after playing with KC and reading through the mailing list
>> > questions/answers, i think that's a better approach to have devices be
>> > users and not clients.
>> >
>> > However, did you have something in mind when asking this question ?
>> >
>>
>> I was wondering if the users you mentioned were actually service accounts
>> associated with clients representing your devices. But yeah, the decision
>> on whether devices should be users or not I think depend on the
>> capabilities you want to support on them.
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> For several reasons/constraints that i won't explain here, i can't
>> >>> have my devices connect first to Keycloak to obtain a token (using
>> >>> their X.509 certificates as KC supports it) and then connect to the
>> >>> MQTT Broker passing this token. They connect directly to the MQTT
>> >>> Broker, each device presenting its X.509 certificate to the Broker.
>> >>> After connection, the Broker doesn't know client private key.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Now I'm curious :)
>> >>
>> >
>> > Ok, the main reason is that the one thing that can be guaranteed about
>> > devices is that they have a certificate to authenticate themselves.
>> They're
>> > not necessarily http or even mqtt capable. They can be able to
>> communicate
>> > only via a low power wide area network (Lora / Sigfox ... ie. not
>> connected
>> > to internet directly)
>> >
>> > So we know how to deal with a user (be it a human or a device) that can
>> > authenticate and get an access token.
>> > My concern here is how to deal with a user (device) that can not.
>> >
>>
>> Ok, so that changes things a bit ...
>>
>>
>> >
>> >> However, I think we could support your use case with UMA 2.0 changes we
>> >> are planning. In the new version of the specs, the client don't
>> actually
>> >> need an access token in order to obtain RPTs from AS. There is a
>> specific
>> >> OAuth2 Grant Type, which you can use just like any other grant type.
>> The
>> >> tricky here is that instead of using an OAuth2 Access Token to gain
>> access
>> >> to our APIs, you basically authenticate the client using whatever
>> client
>> >> authentication method we support. For instance, id/secret, jwt or even
>> >> using a bearer token (as it stands today). In addition to that, you are
>> >> allowed to send tokens with claims associated with a requesting party
>> >> (e.g.: your devices). That would allow you to send your devices
>> >> certificates.
>> >>
>> >> In a nutshell, in a single request to the server you would provide your
>> >> client credentials + device certificate. And we would need to support
>> >> extracting requesting party information (the user) from certificates.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Yes, it seems really interesting and corresponding to what i'd like to
>> > achieve. Since you talk about UMA, i understand this is the «
>> Authorization
>> > API » that is involved here.
>> >
>>
>> That is one of the changes introduced by UMA 2.0. The Authorization API
>> was
>> replaced by a UMA Grant Type [1]. We are going to deprecate the
>> Authorization API and leave it there for a while. But remove it in future
>> releases.
>>
>> My statement above also applies to our Entitlement API, which we also want
>> to support scenarios where the identity is not really represented by an ID
>> or access token.
>>
>> [1]
>> https://docs.kantarainitiative.org/uma/ed/uma-core-2.0-08.
>> html#seek-authorization
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Also, you said « *In the new version of the specs, the client don't
>> > actually need an access token in order to obtain RPTs from AS* », can
>> you
>> > please point me to the specs that talk about this specific part (if
>> > possible) ? I quickly went through the v2.0 without being able to
>> clearly
>> > identity this specific part ...
>> >
>>
>> See link above.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Do you have something (beta ...) that i can start playing with ? Is it
>> > already in the roadmap (maybe you have a specific ticket number in
>> mind) ?
>> >
>>
>> Nothing yet ... But this is my next task in Keycloak. At the moment I'm
>> stuck with tasks in other projects that I need to get it done. But the
>> JIRA
>> is https://issues.jboss.org/browse/KEYCLOAK-3169.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Depending on the estimated « landing » date, i can contribute in many
>> > ways. So, What's the next step :-)
>> >
>>
>> Sure thing. Maybe you can start providing some more background to what you
>> need in that JIRA. Although the title is related with UMA 2.0 it will also
>> involve changes to Entitlement API.
>>
>> The initial plan did not include what we are discussing here. But I think
>> we can consider your requirements during development once we agree on what
>> we really need to do.
>>
>> Maybe another approach to your problem is make your MQTT Broker both a PDP
>> and PEP. I mean, you would use some REST API in Keycloak to evaluate
>> policies based on a set of one or more resources/topics + enforce access
>> based on the permissions returned by the server. We do have an endpoint
>> that you can use to evaluate policies (see
>> https://github.com/keycloak/keycloak/blob/master/integration
>> /admin-client/src/main/java/org/keycloak/admin/client/
>> resource/PoliciesResource.java#L70).
>> But it is basically accessing the API used by our Policy Evaluation Toll
>> in
>> the admin console. Ideally, you should use Entitlement API, Authorization
>> API/UMA Grant Type.
>>
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> Best regards,
>> >>> Brahim
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >>> keycloak-user at lists.jboss.org
>> >>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/keycloak-user
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
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>
>