[seam-dev] Seam 3 space on JBoss Community

[Piotr Steininger]

Gavin,

I think it is best to document the features that you believe critical for
smooth development AND for building a community of users, developers and
enthusiasts. And let's have the community contribute to that list and
discuss them.

I know what the current wiki does and I know very well what Jive SBS does
and doesn't do (I've implemented or helped implement the SBS and its
predecessors into really effective solutions for KM and community building -
which included customizations). I'm sure some other community members may
have experience with SBS as well. Once we have all this in the open, then
perhaps everyone could see why you believe SBS is not the right way to go
or... still disagree with you.

I know that you have strong opinions on certain issues, and your input does
matter a lot, but please keep in mind that other developers and users bring
different and valuable perspectives, and they need to be treated with
respect. Specifically the people who use Seam 2 and those why try to adopt
Weld and Seam 3. You definitely contributed a lot in the technical
department, but that is only part of the success of Seam. The other major
parts belong to the user community for using it, promoting it (for free) and
providing valuable feedback (again, for free). Don't forget the other
developers (at RedHat and beyond). Seam and Weld are open source products
and as such are driven by the community. Without the community Seam and Weld
would not be where they are today. So you can't claim that you contribute
more. Be a good leader and listen to your community, no matter how much you
dislike what you hear.

One more point. As you can see, this topic sparked a rather heated debate,
with some valid and some off the charts comments. This alone is an indicator
that this issue is far from resolved, and the intensity of some of the
comments was, no doubt, due to the frustration with the status quo (and in
part to your less than appropriate remarks). The community (both developers
and users) simply find the current state detriment to building a community.
And this whole discussion started off solely because of the need for a
better community platform. This need is real and deserves attention and
consideration, no matter how many times it was discussed, because it wasn't
properly addressed.

Last thought... As a creator/lead developer, you've done some great work on
Seam and CDI. Keep in mind that those who make a product, quite often need
other people with different viewpoints (sometimes opposing) in order to
effectively market and sell the product and be successful. Just food for
thought.


So let's put attitudes aside (that goes to all of us) and let's have some
due process, even if it's second or Nth time around. This way no one can say
that they didn't have a voice. Does that sound fair?

Thanks,

Piotr


On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 7:38 PM, Gavin King <gavin.king at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 4:43 PM, Piotr Steininger
> <piotr.steininger at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > my point is that the current infrastructure is ineffective and
> inadequate. If we are building
> > the best damn framework then let's use the best damn tools to assist us
> with it.
>
> OK, but my argument is that the infrastructure you're proposing to
> replace it with is even
> less adequate and is missing features that I consider critical to
> community building..
>
>
> --
> Gavin King
> gavin.king at gmail.com
> http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/Gavin
> http://hibernate.org
> http://seamframework.org
>
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