[wildfly-dev] WildFly Community Space Replacement

Tue Feb 4 08:54:23 EST 2020

On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 7:43 PM James Perkins <jperkins at redhat.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 1:06 PM Tomaž Cerar <tomaz.cerar at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey Jaikiran,
>>
>> I agree in whole what you said.
>> Stackoverflow is not replacement for forums as they are now.
>> There is set of discussions / questions that fit perfectly to the SO
>> paradigm but definitely not all of them.
>>
>
> It does seem we need to create a Google group. Seems to be the best place
> as you can post directly or via email.
>

+1

>
>
>>
>> So maybe having both, SO questions and google group mailing list? That
>> could work.
>> As for wiki pages, why now utilize github wiki pages?
>>
>
> That is the plan for the wiki's if we need them.
>
>
>>
>> Whatever end decision is, keep in mind that it doesn't really matter what
>> stack / software / platform that is chosen,
>> it is important that it is active.
>> As having almost no participation from dev team and veteran community
>> users will surely kill it no mater where it is.
>>
>> --
>> tomaz
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 1, 2020 at 5:16 AM Jaikiran Pai <jai.forums2013 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello James,
>>> On 01/02/20 1:56 am, James Perkins wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello All,
>>> We are in a position where we need to change the community space for
>>> WildFly, currently located at https://developer.jboss.org/en/wildfly/.
>>> On 2020-03-1 this community space will become read-only.
>>>
>>> We've got 3 areas we need to move.
>>>
>>>    1. Forums/Q&A
>>>    2. Wiki/FAQ
>>>    3. Articles
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. Forums/Q&A
>>> My preference here is we would use Stack Overflow, specifically the wildfly
>>> tag <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/wildfly>. It seems the
>>> forums is really more Q&A than anything.
>>>
>>> If we want to keep the forum and Q&A separate we could use Stack
>>> Overflow for the Q&A and Google Groups for the forum. Though I don't really
>>> see much difference between the forum and Q&A.
>>>
>>> The JBoss AS (and now) WildFly forums have over the years seen a steady
>>> decline in the number of posts and the quality of posts. Unfortunately,
>>> even release announcements which used to happen in the forums previously
>>> are no longer made there. Participation in terms of answers or helping out
>>> with issues has reduced too (as compared to like maybe a decade ago). The
>>> new forum software (Jive), IMO has contributed a lot towards this - its
>>> editor was and still is a major hassle, plus the rules around posting (from
>>> what I remember new users weren't allowed to post more than a few posts
>>> within a few minutes of each other and had to wait hours to post next).
>>> Plus, repeated complaints from regular users about this, never ended up
>>> seeing any results. Regular contributors who used to answer or help out on
>>> issues are no longer around.
>>>
>>> Having said that, from what I see, WildFly forum as compared to other
>>> forums still sees good amount of traffic in terms of questions. I think
>>> JBoss AS and WildFly forums are probably the most active ones right (they
>>> used to compete with RichFaces and to some extent HornetQ forum in terms of
>>> traffic, but ever since they were sunset, the application server forums are
>>> the more frequented ones).
>>>
>>> I don't have any concerns on moving away from the current location of
>>> these forums. However, I personally don't like them being moved to
>>> StackOverflow. I have tried to be a user at StackOverflow a few times,
>>> during the past decade. But every time, I have disliked it. If you look at
>>> the JBoss AS/WildFly forums, you will notice that a lot of these
>>> discussions/questions span multiple posts where the original poster and the
>>> volunteer helpers go back and forth asking details and trying to narrow
>>> down what the issue is - more like a debug session spread across multiple
>>> posts. This kind of interactive discussion hasn't ever been encouraged at
>>> StackOverflow and neither does the software nor the people involved seem to
>>> encourage it there. That has always made me stay away from StackOverflow.
>>>
>>> Google groups on the other hand I think are a better place. I don't use
>>> its web interface, but given that it integrates right into your email
>>> client, I have found it gives the same level of interactive nature that you
>>> typically want in discussions. Quarkus project has been using google groups
>>> for its user + dev discussions and so far I have really liked it. So I
>>> think maybe hosting the forums as a google group mailing list might be a
>>> good idea. In fact, I have a feeling that it might bring in more
>>> participation, both from the users as well as volunteers contributors (but
>>> that's just a guess).
>>>
>>> By the way, I don't fully understand the difference between Q&A and
>>> forums. To me they sound the same and unless I'm missing something. Asking
>>> users to post in 2 different places (one for Q&A and one for forums) might
>>> not be a good idea.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2. Wiki/FAQ
>>> For this we could use GitHub Wiki here. For details see
>>> https://help.github.com/en/github/building-a-strong-community/about-wikis
>>> .
>>>
>>> I don't think anyone uses Wiki/FAQ anymore these days (I miss the days
>>> where I used to wait for wikis from Scott Stark. The classloading one is
>>> still one of my favourite ones). Neither have I seen too many new wikis/FAQ
>>> being created nor have I seen them being referred to in the forums (unlike
>>> the good old Adrian days ;)). So I don't have much of an opinion on whether
>>> or not to have a new place for them.
>>>
>>>
>>> 3. Articles
>>> I don't know how often articles get created, but it doesn't look like
>>> often. My suggestion would be that we just use wildfly.org for this.
>>> These seem to be akin to blog posts.
>>>
>>> Articles these days have mainly been from the WildFly dev team
>>> before/after a release about new features (which is a good thing). Again I
>>> haven't liked the software that hosts these articles (again the editor and
>>> other hassles around it), but at least there have been some new articles
>>> every now and then. I think wilfly.org for articles sounds fine. Maybe
>>> it should optionally have the ability to aggregate any good community
>>> users' articles every now and then.
>>>
>>> Having said all this, I think it's best to post this announcement and
>>> ask for suggestions in the WildFly forums itself, since those are the users
>>> we should be looking inputs from.
>>>
>>> -Jaikiran
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> wildfly-dev mailing list
>>> wildfly-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>>
>>
>
> --
> James R. Perkins
> JBoss by Red Hat
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> wildfly-dev mailing list
> wildfly-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev

-- 
Brian Stansberry
Manager, Senior Principal Software Engineer
Red Hat
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