[hibernate-dev] [ORM] Reducing startup log verbosity

[Steve Ebersole]

I disagree that logging a single message is a better solution because that
probably ends up wrapping multiple lines, just as your sample happened to
do in the email.  IMO that is actually more difficult to read.

And I just do not understand this idea that we have to direct people to
enable logging to track down problems.  This is a non-argument to me.

As for what logger to use... that is definitely a concern, though its not
really any different than we have today.  If I refactor an internal class
(because, well, its internal) - that almost always will affect logging on
the user's end.  It's one of the reasons I started looking at using
"symbolic" logger names.  Which of course is its own concern.



On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 12:54 PM Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Pretty good idea but definitely too much work for the effort I want to put
> in it right now.
>
> But, yes, we can do that for version 7.0.1.Final, I like your example :).
>
> I will make a proposal to reduce the log verbosity (enhanced classes,
> hibernate.properties missing and a few others) but keep the important
> diagnostic information as is.
>
> On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 2:23 PM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
>
> > +1 to polish output, but:
> >
> > I don't want to need to figure out how to reconfigure whatever Logger
> > of the day one happens to hit, to finally notice that essential
> > configuration details are wrong. Mostly because it requires to get the
> > idea to actually check this, which is not a straightforward thought
> > when all you observe is some odd behaviour.
> >
> > Not least, big we don't want to have to go back to supported customers
> > and community members who have a problem with a "can you change the
> > log levels as I'm missing essential information": that's a huge waste
> > of time especially if we're having an exchange across timezones.
> >
> > Could we rather collect essential info and then print it all out as a
> > single message?
> >
> >   "Hibernate ORM ready and operational! [version: 7.0.1.Final,
> > Transaction mode: JTA, Dialect: PostgreSQL2020, Caching: enabled]"
> >
> > Also I'd question that "verbosity" isn't the same as brevity; the
> > focus should be on hiding unnecessary technicalities but showing nicer
> > / better information, so I'd not be shy to use some multi-line
> > information box if that looks better.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Sanne
> >
> > On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 16:14, Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Yeah sure, they will be kept as is just moved to DEBUG.
> > >
> > > The only one that would change is the "Processing PersistenceUnitInfo"
> > > thing: we will remove the INFO one and keep the more detailed DEBUG
> one.
> > >
> > > BTW, I agree with everything Steve said, sorry for not replying
> earlier.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 4:46 PM Chris Cranford <crancran at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > See below.
> > > >
> > > > On 1/3/19 10:29 AM, Steve Ebersole wrote:
> > > > > [o.h.d.Dialect] (main) HHH000400: Using dialect:
> > > > >> org.hibernate.dialect.PostgreSQL95Dialect
> > > > >>
> > > > >> -> wondering if it has any value to log the dialect? I mean if you
> > don't
> > > > >> use the right one, you will definitely have some issues.
> > > > >>
> > > > > True, but it is probably hard(er) to interpret the true source of
> the
> > > > > issues later on.
> > > > >
> > > > > However, I think it is reasonable to make this DEBUG.  If you have
> > > > problems
> > > > > the first reasonable thing to do is to crank logging to DEBUG if
> not
> > > > TRACE.
> > > >
> > > > I completely agree.
> > > >
> > > > I think its reasonable to make it DEBUG/TRACE but I don't think I
> want
> > > > to necessarily change it such that it is no longer included in log
> > > > output at all.  Having it be included is a good first-line of defense
> > on
> > > > trying to resolve potential problems not only for us, but even for
> > users
> > > > who are doing their own debugging before reporting an issue;
> > > > particularly if the error in question implies some Dialect
> > configuration
> > > > problem.
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > > hibernate-dev at lists.jboss.org
> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >
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