[jboss-dev] hibernate 3.3.0 upgrade, slf4j introduction into jbossas

Bill Burke bburke at redhat.com
Mon May 5 09:20:34 EDT 2008 

Shame on Steve for introducing yet another logging framework.  All 
you're gonna do is piss off every JBoss AS user that wants to debug 
Hibernate and has to figure out shitLog4j.

I hate to single you out, but this is another example of the ivory 
tower, silo development we have at JBoss where nobody cares about how 
they fit into the bigger picture.  The world if bigger than Hibernate.

David M. Lloyd wrote:
> I'm a bit hazy on the details but I understand that some logging 
> frameworks allow you to subclass a base logger class, and some don't - 
> so if you do so it's really difficult to properly weave in the 
> appropriate substitution. Last time I heard, Trustin still didn't have a 
> solution to the problem.
> 
> Have you already made the switch to JDK logging in the jbossas core?  If 
> so, is there a sensible LogManager yet?
> 
> Also, do we need to do anything funky like support different 
> configurations on a per-deployment basis?  I am under the impression 
> that Glassfish does this, but I haven't figured out the details yet.
> 
> For configurations, I get what you're saying - though I imagine there's 
> probably users out there who want to use their own logging framework and 
> configuration in certain deployments, so I think we'd need a way to 
> support that - maybe just by detecting the presence of a logging 
> implementation in the deployment or something.
> 
> Otherwise, based on what I know of the various logging configuration 
> formats, we could probably just rewrite the logging configuration into a 
> bean deployment that just uses the JDK logging API to acquire and 
> configure Logger and Handler instances, rather than try to use the 
> stupid properties system that the default LogManager uses.
> 
> - DML
> 
> On 05/04/2008 02:42 PM, Scott Stark wrote:
>> All that I can recall as a reasonable compromise was to simply move to 
>> the jdk logging with the replacement logging handlers based on the 
>> log4j type of appenders I ported over when previously looking at this 
>> problem. Trustin has since introduced log2log, we could always use 
>> jboss retro to map framework X onto the jbossas core, but that does 
>> not cover the framwork X configuration files.
>>
>> How I can see the mc and jbossas deployment framework fitting in is by 
>> rewriting the logging system X config files onto the current jbossas 
>> implementation if that is desired. The problem always is whether the 
>> logging in question is part of a user application, or a jbossas 
>> framework. In reality I only see jdk logging for the server frameworks 
>> and other frameworks wanting to integrate with the server logs having 
>> a jdk logger option, or an adaptor.
>>
>> What are the log2log issues showing up?
>>
>> David M. Lloyd wrote:
>>> Well, that's a good project, but bytecode weaving seems like a pretty 
>>> heavy-duty solution to a simple problem.
>>>
>>> The basic problem is, people (within JBoss and without) are going to 
>>> use the frameworks they're going to use.  How much effort is it to 
>>> adapt log2log (which has already run into some interesting technical 
>>> dilemmas) to another framework, versus just adding another API 
>>> facade?  It seems like the microcontainer arch would be perfectly 
>>> suited towards auto-wiring the appropriate logging API.
>>>
>>> Wouldn't it be nice if we could say, "deploy your app in 
>>> JBossAS/JBossMC and it will *just work*, regardless of what logging 
>>> frameworks are being used by what"?
>>>
>>> - DML
>>>
>>> On 05/02/2008 01:41 PM, Ales Justin wrote:
>>>> What about if we used this:
>>>>  - https://svn.jboss.org/repos/log2log/trunk
>>>> with-in one of our deployers, and you could mark certain deployments 
>>>> as being 'dragged' through Log2Log to 'clean-up' logging?
>>>>
>>>> Steve Ebersole wrote:
>>>>> I apologize for the tone in my last response.  The original thread 
>>>>> was frustrating enough, and here it is being relived.  I let that 
>>>>> frustration get to me when I should not have.
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 2, 2008, at 12:12 PM, Steve Ebersole wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I cannot help that AS seems to think that every piece of 
>>>>>> technology needs to be complete re-written in house.  Y'all have 
>>>>>> you're own logging framework, great, add it to the other 50 out 
>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The part that you are missing is that Hibernate is first and 
>>>>>> foremost a standalone library.  And in terms of integration, I 
>>>>>> have to consider integration with many containers.  I'm sure they 
>>>>>> all want jboss-logging as the 'yet another logging api' in their 
>>>>>> environments as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I used to use commons-logging which had a very specific problem 
>>>>>> that slf4j solves in a unique way *on any platform*...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you recall, I asked about experiences using jboss-logging in 
>>>>>> environments other than within JBoss AS and (in keeping with the 
>>>>>> general theme of that thread) got no replies to the question 
>>>>>> asked: 
>>>>>> http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/jboss-development/2007-July/010398.html 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 2, 2008, at 11:30 AM, Scott Stark wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And we said sure, introduce yet another logging api?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Steve Ebersole wrote:
>>>>>>>> I initiated that very discussion on this very list almost a year 
>>>>>>>> ago ;)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 2, 2008, at 11:15 AM, Paul Gier wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I upgraded this based on JBAS-5133 and Steve's request.  I can 
>>>>>>>>> switch it back to the old version if that's what is needed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Scott Stark wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Why was hibernate updated to 3.3.0 in jbossas trunk, and why 
>>>>>>>>>> is this pulling in yet another logging framework? This needs 
>>>>>>>>>> to be reverted, and why there has to be yet another logging 
>>>>>>>>>> framework dependency brought in explained.
>>>>>>>>>> *** CONTEXTS IN ERROR: Name -> Error
>>>>>>>>>> vfsfile:/media/disk/workspace/tck5/jboss-5.0.0.CR1/server/cts/tmp/jsr88/ejb3_annotations_entity_vehicles.ear 
>>>>>>>>>> -> java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: org/slf4j/LoggerFactory
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> jboss-development mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> jboss-development at lists.jboss.org
>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-development
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>>>>> Steve Ebersole
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Project Lead
>>>>>>>> http://hibernate.org
>>>>>>>> steve at hibernate.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>>> Steve Ebersole
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Project Lead
>>>>>> http://hibernate.org
>>>>>> steve at hibernate.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>> Steve Ebersole
>>>>>
>>>>> Project Lead
>>>>> http://hibernate.org
>>>>> steve at hibernate.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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-- 
Bill Burke
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
http://bill.burkecentral.com

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