[jboss-dev] hibernate 3.3.0 upgrade, slf4j introduction into jbossas

[Steve Ebersole]

I understand what you are saying.  I really do. (and I understand you  
were trying to be enabling last time).

  So let me ask you this.  Take a look at the growing list of projects  
using slf4j.  What happens when y'all want to bundle one of them that  
does not have close ties to JBoss?  Are you going to demand that they  
use jboss-logging?  Are you going to refuse to use it and rewrite that  
functionality when they say "thanks but no thanks"?  What about other  
common libraries?  CGIB?  I agreed to allow Javassist to be used for  
Hibernate's bytecode manipulation requirements because it made  
*technical* sense.  But this logging discussion seems oddly very un- 
technical.

On May 5, 2008, at 2:02 PM, Jason T. Greene wrote:

> Steve Ebersole wrote:
>> <quote>
>> The world if bigger than Hibernate
>> </quote>
>> True, and you know what... the word is bigger than JBoss AS.  As I   
>> have mentioned numerous times, it is extremely arrogant and "ivory  
>> tower"-ish to expect all libraries you want to consume into AS to  
>> comply with your logging requirement.
>> And honestly, this whole thread shows the issues with attempting to  
>> integrate with AS imo.  Namely almost a year ago I cam on this list  
>> and asked about this very thing we are now disucssing.  And none of  
>> you wanted to discuss it (oh some came and gave their opinions on  
>> topics other than the question asked, sure...).  Yet here y'all are  
>> a year later willing to discuss it and chastized me and so on and  
>> so forth.  An ounce of prevention...  But no (and not to single  
>> *you* out, though you certainly fall into this) you'd rather bash  
>> people after the fact as opposed to discuss before hand and come to  
>> a consensus.  And *thats* why this is so frustrating.
>
> Hey I tried to be helpful! :) I even wrote code to help jboss- 
> logging fit your needs. I don't see any reason why it can't be used  
> outside of the AS. If it couldn't be, I would consider that a bug.
>
> It is true that sl4j might be better, but IMO we really should try  
> and pick one universal log adapter framework. Else integration is a  
> mess (it already is).
>
> -- 
> Jason T. Greene
> JBoss, a division of Red Hat
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-----------------------------
Steve Ebersole

Project Lead
http://hibernate.org
steve at hibernate.org