[jsr-314-open] Meeting minutes from EG face-to-face at Sun's SF office post-JavaOne

Thu Jun 11 16:22:02 EDT 2009

I just remember a name I left off the list.

Alex Smirmov, JSR-314 EG & RichFaces, Exadel

It was remiss of me to fail to mention Alex's name given that he was the one
that informed me of the meeting and encouraged me to make it.

-Dan

On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Dan Allen <dan.j.allen at gmail.com> wrote:

> There is a standing invitation by Sun (from what I've been told) to host an
> EG face-to-face meeting at Sun's San Francisco office after each JavaOne
> event. This year there was a strong representation by the JSF group. Andy
> and I both took notes and to be consistent with our policy on openness, we
> felt compelled to produce a consolidated set of minutes and share it with
> the JSR-314 community.
>
> What follows are the minutes from the meeting, held on June 05, 2009 from
> 10:30AM - 1:00PM. If you were in attendance, feel free to supplement these
> minutes with your own notes. Apologies if we left out any names of who was
> in attendance. There was no formal sign in sheet.
>
> The meeting began with introductions. Attendance:
>
> Name, Project/Spec, Company
>
> Andy Schwartz, JSR-314 EG, Oracle
> Tedd Goddard, JSR-314 EG, ICEfaces
> Greg Wilkins, JSR-315 EG, Mort Bay
> Rajiv Mordani, JSR-315 EG Lead, Sun
> Jason Lee, Mojarra/JSFTemplating, Sun
> Justin Lee, Sun
> Kin-Man Chung, JSR-245 EG Lead, Sun
> Wenbo Zhu, Open Google Servlet Engine, Google
> Dan Allen, JSR-314, Red Hat
> Kito Mann, JSR-314, Virtua
> Jan Luehe, Sun
> Ed Burns, JSR-314 EG Lead, Sun
> Roger Kitain, JSR-314 EG Co-Lead, Sun
> (apologies if we missed anyone)
>
> Topics:
>
> - Andy gave an overview of the improvements that came with JSF 2.0.
> Features mentioned:
>   - Ajax support. Though not a new technology, the first time JavaScript
> APIs were introduced into Java EE. Cited RichFaces and ICEfaces as source of
> ideas (he didn't mention Trinidad/ADF Faces, but they were sources as well)
>   - Standardization and improvement of Facelets. We could call it Facelets
> 2.0.
>   - Easy component creation: Built on the Facelets compositions, all
> aspects of a UI component can be defined in template markup.
>   - Bookmarkable URL components and view parameters contributed by Red Hat.
> Eventually led to the introduction of the metadata facet for non-rendering
> components which can be processed before the page is built.
>   - System events. Used for more fine-grained control and interception of
> the JSF life cycle. A more fine-grained approach than PhaseListeners.
>   - Exception queing so that root cause exceptions bubble out of the
> FacesServlet.
>   - Bean Validation integration. Constraints defined with annotations.
>   - Partial state saving to reduce the overhead of having to generate and
> save an entire component tree representation on each request.
>   - Annotation-based configuration, consistent with the direct the platform
> is heading
>   - Component behaviors, a mechanism for enhancing components with
> additional behaviors that are not explicitly defined by the component author
>
> - Kin-Man reported that there will be a maintaince release for JSR-245
>   - The focus is on EL improvements
>   - EL will include support for method parameters
>   - New version of EL/JSP will be aligned as "2.2"
>
> - Dan asked to discuss other features of EL that are supported by JBoss EL
>   - EL should support calling static methods in addition to non-static
> methods (just treat static like member method)
>   - EL should recognize namespaces in EL names, with API support to
> "import" a namespace (should involve JSR-299, which is introducing qualified
> EL names)
>
> - Rajiv gave update of JSR-315
>   - Annotation-based configuration
>   - Improved security/login routine; preemptive login now possible
>   - web.xml fragments
>   - Programmatic registration of listeners, filters, servlets
>   - Introduced the ServletContainerInitializer API, which the JSF members
> didn't seem to be very familiar with
>
> - Rajiv made the comment that the Web Tier spec may be able to rev more
> quickly than JEE as a whole
>
> - Greg requested that we discuss ordering with regard to web.xml fragments
>   - Discussed the ordering of servlet life cycle callbacks
>   - Similar in nature to the JSF faces-config.xml ordering
>   - Begin/end callbacks compilments should be called in reverse order on
> exit (e.g. filters)
>   - Point source callbacks should be executed in defined order (no
> reversing) (e.g. property listeners)
>   - Exclusion mechanism should prevent resources from being located in it's
> classpath entry when using getResources() and how this affects JSF
>   - Rajiv and Ed are going to sync up to make sure that we are consistent
> on ordering behavior across Servlet 3.0/JSF 2.0.
>
> - Dan asked for a clarification in servlet spec on when the
> ServletRequestListener#requestDestroyed() is called when an exception is
> raised
>   - Tomcat notifies the listener that the request has been destroyed before
> rendering the error page; this breaks framework reliant on the request
> boundaries such as JSR-299
>   - The group agreed that the notification should be fired after the error
> page is rendered, just like when an include or forward is dispatched to the
> RequestDispatcher
>
> - A lengthly discussion pursued regarding annotation scanning
>
> One concern is that various EE specs need to scan for annotations, which
> may lead to multiple scan passes, and possibly inconsistent behavior
> regarding how paths to scan/exclude are determined.  To avoid performing an
> extra scan, servlet EG members recommended that JSF implementations leverage
> the new ServletContainerInitializer API.  This allows the servlet container
> to call JSF implementations back with any classes that may be of interest to
> JSF (as specified via the @HandlesTypes annotation).  JSF 2.0
> implementations do not/should not require Servlet 3.0, but could possibly
> leverage this mechanism when running in 3.0 containers.
>
> Dan raised concern that the servlet spec is too narrow to deal with all
> annotation scanning needed in Java EE, so likely this is only going to be a
> partial optimization. He mentioned that the Java EE EG and the JSR-299 EG
> should be brought into this discussion.
>
> Towards the end of the meeting Ed provided thoughts on what's next for
> JSF...  Ed is collecting a list of issues to be addressed in an MR.   Ed
> would like to hold off on any major changes on top of 2.0 until the
> community has had a chance to adopt 2.0 and help identify key issues.
> Others (Dan, Andy) expressed interest in seeing some of the more pressing
> smaller issues addressed more quickly, either via an MR or, if not possible,
> via a 2.1 rev of the spec.
>
> Ed also raised the idea of a component-centric JSR for JSF in order to
> address concerns about the limited set of standard components.  We'll need
> to have some more discussion to scope this out and understand the
> implications for existing component vendors.  Ted Goddard suggested that one
> obvious place where standardization would be across the models defined by
> the various component frameworks.
>
> --
> Dan Allen
> Senior Software Engineer, Red Hat | Author of Seam in Action
>
> http://mojavelinux.com
> http://mojavelinux.com/seaminaction
> http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/Dan
>
> NOTE: While I make a strong effort to keep up with my email on a daily
> basis, personal or other work matters can sometimes keep me away
> from my email. If you contact me, but don't hear back for more than a week,
> it is very likely that I am excessively backlogged or the message was
> caught in the spam filters.  Please don't hesitate to resend a message if
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>

-- 
Dan Allen
Senior Software Engineer, Red Hat | Author of Seam in Action

http://mojavelinux.com
http://mojavelinux.com/seaminaction
http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/Dan

NOTE: While I make a strong effort to keep up with my email on a daily
basis, personal or other work matters can sometimes keep me away
from my email. If you contact me, but don't hear back for more than a week,
it is very likely that I am excessively backlogged or the message was
caught in the spam filters.  Please don't hesitate to resend a message if
you feel that it did not reach my attention.
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